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#1
Old 09-22-2011, 09:59 PM

Ok... so I'm an atheist. Whenever someone at school finds out, I'm immediately labeled by them as being 'impure' or 'possessed' or even 'evil'. This kind of behavior comes from those who believe in a god, whether they be Christian or another religion. A merciful God who accepts everyone for who they are... unless the happen to be a gay or lesbian or if they refuse to accept Jesus as their savior, etc. All of those people are cast into hell, sent to have their soul tortured for all eternity. Some merciful God. The majority of these people tend to be Christian girls, not to stereotype, but they are. A few days ago in English class, we were studying works of literature from the Puritan era. I found much of what we read insulting to anyone who is in fact not a Christian. Christians are put on a pedestal, almost like they are gods themselves. As if believing in God makes them better than everyone else. I mean, i don't believe any of it, but it still hurts to think that people actually believe this. They believe that people like me are 'misguided' or 'lost' or whatever. They think i need 'help'. Does anyone else find this strange? Please share any of your experiences. here is one of mine:

So like i said, in English, we are studying the Puritan era. We got into a mild religious discussion. So i posed a question to no one in particular: What makes Christianity any better or more pure than any other religion? I got SO MANY sneers, giggles, and glares from the majority of the class. As if staring at me like that was going to make me take back what i said or make me disappear or something.

So anyway... all Christians are welcome to refute anything I've said here. Maybe someone can explain this to me. Anyone else is welcome to state their opinion regarding what i have said. Well, have at it. I will check this thread daily and reply to any posts.

Other beliefs are welcome.

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#2
Old 09-23-2011, 03:43 AM

Firstly, God doesn't send you to hell because your gay or lesbian...

Secondly, hell is not a place that you can get sent to...it's a state of being, the state of being separated from God. Everyone is separated from God, it's not a place where you are tortured or anything like that.


You don't happen to go to a stereotypical Christian school do you? (cause it reminds me a bit of one I went to... >.< ))

-huggles- I'm sorry your class has been rather rude, especially over terrible misconceptions about what Christianity actually says... unfortunately there exists a lot of Christians who don't read and understand the Bible for themselves, and unfortunately a lot of churches who continue 'Fire and Brimstone teaching' and continue spreading ignorance ):

I did go to a church for a while where they made fun of Darwin a lot, and I would always get annoyed at them, because Darwin was effing great, the whole natural selection thing is genius, and took a lot of work to record and notice! But they'd instead insist that Darwin was stupid and this and that...

Seriously guys, science and the church could get along at their roots, if the people involved would stop being mean to one another...

but that's a different rant...


as for proof for the two statements I initially made, I could go and give you a long lecture on the 'goals' of God as it is according to the Bible and etc, but I don't think you want to read that.

I'd say...why not just ask God Himself?
He tends to be a very quiet God, speaking in little whispers again and again, he's not loud like the protesters or the brainwashed masses.
He's quiet, persistent, and very personal.

Whenever He tells me I'm not doing something as I should, He doesn't make me feel guilty or shameful, he just quietly hints at a better way, and I feel a little silly, because He makes so much sense lol

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#3
Old 09-23-2011, 09:17 AM

Well my family are pretty crazy zealots so most of my annoyance is because of them.

Birdie being bluntX

I to do not think that some big invisible man in the sky is watching my every move o.O I know religious people hate it when I phrase it that simply, but essentially what many of them do believe. (My Mom's side of the family for example) I believe in science and nature and the remarkable miracles that people encounter everyday and fail to recognize or appreciate.
It seems to me religion is around for two maybe three reasons:
1. People need to behave. Long ago before we had such a structured way of life peoples morals were VASTLY different. They need some kind of discipline and common set of morals to keep people in line. So they established some morals and creepy omnipresent threats keep people afraid to go against them. This also unites people, and as social creatures this gives them a place to "belong" to and socialize in.
2. People are afraid of what they don't understand. Being able to say "because that's how God did it" gives them a loop hole out of actually having to know the answer. (Like how roman gods were believed to create the weather) Or my mother will use it as an excuse for bad things in her life (God hates me so I can't get a job right now) rather then trying to understand WHY she really couldn't get one. This is also relevant in the subject of death. People are scared of death (though the thought of eternal aging is terrifying to me). But if instead of dying and becoming compost like everything else, they are comforted by the thought of being whisked away to magical place where family stands by waiting for them with open arms. (and how over crowed of a place is this with eons of generations just hang out?)
3. Money. The Catholics are the RICHEST people on the face of this earth and almost all religion have some kind of financial drain on it's congregation that's brainwashed enough to fork it over, or in earlier times kill for it IE the crusades.

There are some that seem to have a more holy then thou chip on there shoulder. They are well convinced by others that the are RIGHT and act as if we "unbelievers" are the crazy ones. Even though we are not the ones talking to a voice in our head, which I'm pretty sure in any other terms, is crazy. I am more in favor of people that are "spiritual" rather then religious. They seem to play less into the brainwashing and recognize that science works and are more open minded to the world around them. More willing to recognize that the world is very different now, and perhaps the bible was as fallible as the men that wrote it.
Even Stephen Hawking was recently torn apart because on a panel of "educated people" He brought up that the christian god theory was pretty ridiculous and everyone was just shocked that he had said it. But no one could come up with any kind of argument to any of his points other then childish "it is because HE says so" it was horribly sad. Get used to it, to them you need to be "saved" and your an immoral heathen.

sorry for that but I get really tired of having religious nonsense shoved down my throat and that's what it looks like regurgitated!

Keep in mind it is basically directed at my family, who won't ever see it so I'm free to rant XD
but still Please do not read if you are easily offended.

Last edited by Bound Birdie; 09-23-2011 at 10:01 AM..

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#4
Old 09-23-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinglessFairy View Post
Firstly, God doesn't send you to hell because your gay or lesbian...

Secondly, hell is not a place that you can get sent to...it's a state of being, the state of being separated from God. Everyone is separated from God, it's not a place where you are tortured or anything like that.


You don't happen to go to a stereotypical Christian school do you? (cause it reminds me a bit of one I went to... >.< ))

-huggles- I'm sorry your class has been rather rude, especially over terrible misconceptions about what Christianity actually says... unfortunately there exists a lot of Christians who don't read and understand the Bible for themselves, and unfortunately a lot of churches who continue 'Fire and Brimstone teaching' and continue spreading ignorance ):

I did go to a church for a while where they made fun of Darwin a lot, and I would always get annoyed at them, because Darwin was effing great, the whole natural selection thing is genius, and took a lot of work to record and notice! But they'd instead insist that Darwin was stupid and this and that...

Seriously guys, science and the church could get along at their roots, if the people involved would stop being mean to one another...

but that's a different rant...


as for proof for the two statements I initially made, I could go and give you a long lecture on the 'goals' of God as it is according to the Bible and etc, but I don't think you want to read that.

I'd say...why not just ask God Himself?
He tends to be a very quiet God, speaking in little whispers again and again, he's not loud like the protesters or the brainwashed masses.
He's quiet, persistent, and very personal.

Whenever He tells me I'm not doing something as I should, He doesn't make me feel guilty or shameful, he just quietly hints at a better way, and I feel a little silly, because He makes so much sense lol
ok, so that's how you see it. and no i go to a public school. i just happened to end up in a class of closed-minded people... lucky me. anyway... i guess not everyone takes religion to such an extreme. many things are beneficial in moderation.

Darwin is totally right (and he is awesome). natural selection just makes sense and follows nature's basic rule of thumb: survival of the fittest.

unfortunately, it's virtually impossible for religion and science to get along together... there are simply too many contradictions. and any idea that contradicts what is supposedly 'right' is wrong: damnat quod non intellegunt. they condemn what they do not understand. sadly, that's how most people are. for example... galileo was arrested because he posed the idea of a heliocentric, not a geocentric configuration of our solar system. he was right. and they condemned him for it. Socrates... he invented the Socratic method, a method of question asking that is still used today. he was charged with corrupting the youth and not believing in the gods. he drank poison and died. maybe now you can get an idea of my reasoning. im not saying all people who believe in god are bad... surely not. i have a few good friends who are catholic... we fool around with each other about things like this. we enjoy a good debate. ive just met a lot of the bad, mean people.

what you call god's voice, i call a conscience - a tiny part of my brain that always knows what is right.

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#5
Old 09-23-2011, 10:53 PM

I'm agnostic, so I'd like to think I have a pretty neutral view on everything. There's no way I can know who or what made the world. Why should it matter? I'm happy to be here, and I'm glad to be a good person for the sake of being a good person, not because I'm afraid of any consequences.

I just wanted to point out that there is quite as much prejudice towards people of Christian tendencies - and Islamic as well - as there is towards atheists. Sure, having a view that is seen as contemporary will get you a lot of flack, but so will having a perspective that is viewed as outdated or old-wordly. The point is, you're not special. No matter what your beliefs are, you're going to get hated on.

Please, oh please Deity, get people to stop making these stupid, whiny, "the whole world is against me because I am/am not Christian" threads. Don't you see the irony of it yet?

Other places in this very thread where this conversation has gone on:
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...istianity.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...anity-not.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...th-claims.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...istianity.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...-agnostic.html

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#6
Old 09-23-2011, 10:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bound Birdie View Post
Well my family are pretty crazy zealots so most of my annoyance is because of them.

Birdie being bluntX

I to do not think that some big invisible man in the sky is watching my every move o.O I know religious people hate it when I phrase it that simply, but essentially what many of them do believe. (My Mom's side of the family for example) I believe in science and nature and the remarkable miracles that people encounter everyday and fail to recognize or appreciate.
It seems to me religion is around for two maybe three reasons:
1. People need to behave. Long ago before we had such a structured way of life peoples morals were VASTLY different. They need some kind of discipline and common set of morals to keep people in line. So they established some morals and creepy omnipresent threats keep people afraid to go against them. This also unites people, and as social creatures this gives them a place to "belong" to and socialize in.
2. People are afraid of what they don't understand. Being able to say "because that's how God did it" gives them a loop hole out of actually having to know the answer. (Like how roman gods were believed to create the weather) Or my mother will use it as an excuse for bad things in her life (God hates me so I can't get a job right now) rather then trying to understand WHY she really couldn't get one. This is also relevant in the subject of death. People are scared of death (though the thought of eternal aging is terrifying to me). But if instead of dying and becoming compost like everything else, they are comforted by the thought of being whisked away to magical place where family stands by waiting for them with open arms. (and how over crowed of a place is this with eons of generations just hang out?)
3. Money. The Catholics are the RICHEST people on the face of this earth and almost all religion have some kind of financial drain on it's congregation that's brainwashed enough to fork it over, or in earlier times kill for it IE the crusades.

There are some that seem to have a more holy then thou chip on there shoulder. They are well convinced by others that the are RIGHT and act as if we "unbelievers" are the crazy ones. Even though we are not the ones talking to a voice in our head, which I'm pretty sure in any other terms, is crazy. I am more in favor of people that are "spiritual" rather then religious. They seem to play less into the brainwashing and recognize that science works and are more open minded to the world around them. More willing to recognize that the world is very different now, and perhaps the bible was as fallible as the men that wrote it.
Even Stephen Hawking was recently torn apart because on a panel of "educated people" He brought up that the christian god theory was pretty ridiculous and everyone was just shocked that he had said it. But no one could come up with any kind of argument to any of his points other then childish "it is because HE says so" it was horribly sad. Get used to it, to them you need to be "saved" and your an immoral heathen.

sorry for that but I get really tired of having religious nonsense shoved down my throat and that's what it looks like regurgitated!

Keep in mind it is basically directed at my family, who won't ever see it so I'm free to rant XD
but still Please do not read if you are easily offended.
dont worry... i am not easily offended.

i agree with you about the reasons religion is around. but we do have justice systems and other methods of control so that immoral people dont run loose as much as they used to. and we have science to explain all the things religion used to. and we have solid proof. cold, hard facts and theories that have been proven. if something can be proven, then i will consider it true. we have no proof of an afterlife... and i agree with you on that as well. why would i want to live forever? (i think of Logan from X-Men origins: wolverine. if you havent seen it, you should - it's amazing.) surprisingly, i am not scared of death. dead things dont bother me. i can watch crime shows and gory movies all day and despite the fact that im a very empathic person, it doesnt bother me. the majority of the people that have met me consider me a freak.

seriously, what makes us 'nonbelievers' any more crazy than all of those who believe in an omnipotent eternal being that lives in the sky??? ah, the wonders of screwed logic. maybe i am crazy... i talk to a voice in my head, but it's my own voice. i argue with it quite often. it bothers me so much when reasonable, intelligent people are labeled as insane or stupid or misguided or logically impaired or whatever when they say that there is no such thing as god. and when those people ask for proof of the existence of a god, those people can provide zero solid evidence. good job idiots.

i get tired of all this stuff too...

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilea View Post
I'm agnostic, so I'd like to think I have a pretty neutral view on everything. There's no way I can know who or what made the world. Why should it matter? I'm happy to be here, and I'm glad to be a good person for the sake of being a good person, not because I'm afraid of any consequences.

I just wanted to point out that there is quite as much prejudice towards people of Christian tendencies - and Islamic as well - as there is towards atheists. Sure, having a view that is seen as contemporary will get you a lot of flack, but so will having a perspective that is viewed as outdated or old-wordly. The point is, you're not special. No matter what your beliefs are, you're going to get hated on.

Please, oh please Deity, get people to stop making these stupid, whiny, "the whole world is against me because I am/am not Christian" threads. Don't you see the irony of it yet?

Other places in this very thread where this conversation has gone on:
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...istianity.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...anity-not.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...th-claims.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...istianity.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...-agnostic.html
i have no problem with other beliefs. i have a friend that's agnostic too i find his views as well as yours very interesting. i try to be objective but sometimes i get carried away... and im not saying the whole world hates me, because that is an inaccurate statement. i just happened to get stuck in a class where alot of people have the same views and criticize me for not being a preppy drone like them. around where i go to school, im outnumbered about a thousand to one. everyone is hated on... totally true. i dont exactly hate on people that hate on me, because if i do, im no better than they are. sure i poke fun at them but i be sure to tell them that im just playing (even though sometimes im not...).

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#7
Old 09-23-2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fade_to_grey View Post
seriously, what makes us 'nonbelievers' any more crazy than all of those who believe in an omnipotent eternal being that lives in the sky??? ah, the wonders of screwed logic. maybe i am crazy... i talk to a voice in my head, but it's my own voice. i argue with it quite often. it bothers me so much when reasonable, intelligent people are labeled as insane or stupid or misguided or logically impaired or whatever when they say that there is no such thing as god. and when those people ask for proof of the existence of a god, those people can provide zero solid evidence. good job idiots.
Perfect example of what I meant when I said "prejudice against Christians and other believers." Remember, I'm not religious myself - I'm just pointing out the flaws in your own logic.

So let me see if I'm understanding you correctly - it's perfectly okay for you to bash on them and call them "idiots," and the deity they believe in "a being that lives in the sky," but it isn't okay for them to refuse to believe what you do?

You're a huge hypocrite, and you make me sick. People like you are the reason that Atheists have a bad reputation... and the people just like you who call themselves religious are the reason that they have a bad reputation.

If you want to have a serious conversation about religion, this is a good forum to place it in. But if you're going to continue to complain and mope, may I suggest "Life Issues"? Make a forum that's solely devoted to atheists, or even a hang-out. But don't put your half-baked rant up in a forum that's all about debating and then continue to mud-sling.

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#8
Old 09-24-2011, 12:05 AM

First off, please keep in mind that "atheist" and "religion" are not mutually exclusive. There are atheistic religions, and there are theists who are not religious. In this instance, it doesn't much matter, but when arguing with extremists who believe themselves to be rational, intelligent beings, it really pays to know your facts. ^^

I don't think it's particularly "strange". While there are Christians like Wingless, who do not believe you're going to Hell just because you're not Christian, there are others who are different, and believe people like you and I are going to end up in a rather terrible place at some point. Some of them are well-meaning, and believe harassing you and making you uncomfortable is better than what awaits you in the afterlife. Others believe "good" and "Christian" are synonymous and thus, if you are a good person, you are a Christian, and if you are not Christian, you aren't good. Others still have had what they feel to be divine experiences -- and, being in an experiential faith myself, I'd be the last to doubt them -- and can't comprehend how you haven't felt the same thing. And then, some of it is just good old-fashioned wanting to feel superior.

It sucks being told that something's wrong with you because your beliefs, or lackthereof, are different. But please, don't fall into the same trap. Hearing "you're insane for believing x", for me at least, hurts more when it comes from an atheist than when it comes from a theist.

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#9
Old 09-24-2011, 12:14 AM


i like to think as long as you believe you will go on to your 'heaven'.
i'm Catholic and believe in God.
it doesn't bother me when people have a different belief.
i don't try to convert anyone or condem them for their belief either.
i tend to think how the bible is translated is all in the way you view it.
for instance i do not believe God, my God anyway, hates gay or lesbian individuals.
i think, and mind you it is my interpertation, that the way the bible was written was in the times of procreation being important to preserve humanities growth.
same sex marriages or couples would hinder that.
there wasn't a very easy way to present this to a vase majority other than word of mouth or the written bible.
if the internet was around for Jesus to use i think it would be a differnt story being told.
i know my God loves everyone and they were all created in his image.

i'm sorry you get sneered at and ridiculed.
religion seems to be a hot topic with almost everyone.
to me it should be a sorce of love and kindness but that just isn't the case.

i like the sceen in 'the mummy' when benny shows the mummy a cross, anch, star of David etc.
he covers all his bases.
who knows what the true religion is, or if there even is one.
i say live and let live, worship what makes your heart happy.
i think God will love us all in the end.

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#10
Old 09-24-2011, 12:29 AM

I don't believe either religion or Atheism or any other belief system is "right" or "wrong." Because they aren't. What is wrong is to infringe upon other people's rights to do as they see fit, as long as they're not infringing on anyone else's rights either.
If they're not infringing on anyone else, who cares?
Not every Christian or Atheist or other religion is a jerk. Sure, there are a few, but that doesn't make them all assholes.

Last edited by monstahh`; 09-24-2011 at 12:40 AM..

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#11
Old 09-25-2011, 07:56 PM

oh my gosh im so sorry... guess i kinda went off without meaning to... i apologize and i will try to stay objective.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philomel View Post
First off, please keep in mind that "atheist" and "religion" are not mutually exclusive. There are atheistic religions, and there are theists who are not religious. In this instance, it doesn't much matter, but when arguing with extremists who believe themselves to be rational, intelligent beings, it really pays to know your facts. ^^

I don't think it's particularly "strange". While there are Christians like Wingless, who do not believe you're going to Hell just because you're not Christian, there are others who are different, and believe people like you and I are going to end up in a rather terrible place at some point. Some of them are well-meaning, and believe harassing you and making you uncomfortable is better than what awaits you in the afterlife. Others believe "good" and "Christian" are synonymous and thus, if you are a good person, you are a Christian, and if you are not Christian, you aren't good. Others still have had what they feel to be divine experiences -- and, being in an experiential faith myself, I'd be the last to doubt them -- and can't comprehend how you haven't felt the same thing. And then, some of it is just good old-fashioned wanting to feel superior.

It sucks being told that something's wrong with you because your beliefs, or lackthereof, are different. But please, don't fall into the same trap. Hearing "you're insane for believing x", for me at least, hurts more when it comes from an atheist than when it comes from a theist.
I accept most of what you have said. i guess i just let people get to me and when they do i get pretty defensive. i will try harder to keep them out of my head. i have not had any of what you call experiences, but i have heard many people tell me of theirs. still find it hard to believe something i have not experienced myself. thats just how i am i guess. and maybe later i will change my mind. who knows.

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#12
Old 09-25-2011, 08:30 PM

Well, I don't necessarily think it's about believing what other people experience, but rather, giving them the benefit of the doubt and not simply saying, "this did not happen to you". Despite all my effort, I never felt anything when I was Christian. That doesn't mean I dismiss those who do.

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#13
Old 09-25-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fade_to_grey View Post
ok, so that's how you see it. and no i go to a public school. i just happened to end up in a class of closed-minded people... lucky me. anyway... i guess not everyone takes religion to such an extreme. many things are beneficial in moderation.

Darwin is totally right (and he is awesome). natural selection just makes sense and follows nature's basic rule of thumb: survival of the fittest.

unfortunately, it's virtually impossible for religion and science to get along together... there are simply too many contradictions. and any idea that contradicts what is supposedly 'right' is wrong: damnat quod non intellegunt. they condemn what they do not understand. sadly, that's how most people are. for example... galileo was arrested because he posed the idea of a heliocentric, not a geocentric configuration of our solar system. he was right. and they condemned him for it. Socrates... he invented the Socratic method, a method of question asking that is still used today. he was charged with corrupting the youth and not believing in the gods. he drank poison and died. maybe now you can get an idea of my reasoning. im not saying all people who believe in god are bad... surely not. i have a few good friends who are catholic... we fool around with each other about things like this. we enjoy a good debate. ive just met a lot of the bad, mean people.

what you call god's voice, i call a conscience - a tiny part of my brain that always knows what is right.
Well, i tend to think that science and religion could get along...it's just a lot of scientists are very closed minded.

I mean honestly, Quantum mechanics doesn't make an ounce of living sense! Rational would tell us that it is impossible!

However a true scientists knows that something does not exist because we can or cannot understand it! If reality is a certain way, then it is a certain way, we can only strive to learn the reasons as we go, and many times we must simply accept that our way of thinking is not perfect, and things happen in reality that do not fit our way of thinking ^.^

heh, I guess my one big argument I had with my atheist friends is I feel that believing in all creatures coming from a single cell that formed in a primordial soup requires just as much faith in believing in God. I find it hard to believe that something living came from something nonliving, they find it hard to believe in a God. It really takes faith on both accounts.
And you have people argue one way or the other, but in the end it really does just boil down to that. ^.^

I've seen some of you are annoyed by people calling you insane for not believing in God, I agree, that's dumb of people to say.

Though, as a counter point, I'm really effing sick of the scientific community for saying I'm an idiot for believing in God and a creation theory.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilea View Post
I'm agnostic, so I'd like to think I have a pretty neutral view on everything. There's no way I can know who or what made the world. Why should it matter? I'm happy to be here, and I'm glad to be a good person for the sake of being a good person, not because I'm afraid of any consequences.

I just wanted to point out that there is quite as much prejudice towards people of Christian tendencies - and Islamic as well - as there is towards atheists. Sure, having a view that is seen as contemporary will get you a lot of flack, but so will having a perspective that is viewed as outdated or old-wordly. The point is, you're not special. No matter what your beliefs are, you're going to get hated on.

Please, oh please Deity, get people to stop making these stupid, whiny, "the whole world is against me because I am/am not Christian" threads. Don't you see the irony of it yet?

Other places in this very thread where this conversation has gone on:
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...istianity.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...anity-not.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...th-claims.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...istianity.html
http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...-agnostic.html
yes, unfortunately humanity likes to hate on everyone ):

stop hating on everyone, humanity! >.<

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#14
Old 09-26-2011, 02:15 AM

I think in the media and through other channels, there's a huge dichotomy that leads to the atheism versus theism, mianly through science or belief in stupidity and ignorance.
I have not found that any religion is better

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#15
Old 09-26-2011, 02:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa-chinko View Post
I think in the media and through other channels, there's a huge dichotomy that leads to the atheism versus theism, mianly through science or belief in stupidity and ignorance.
I have not found that any religion is better
How does this surprise you? Organized religion has been around for thousands of years. In comparison, the complete lack of religion based on scientific research is in its infancy. Things take time to change.

No religion is better, but atheism isn't better, either. They're all on a level playing field, and everyone should just shut their mouths and stop bashing on people who don't have the same beliefs they do.

Their beliefs will have no affect whatsoever on your afterlife. Suck it up and please, for the love of all things, stop bashing each other.

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#16
Old 09-26-2011, 03:52 AM

it's certainly not about being better though, it's about truth.

though, the truth is a lot more abstract than people think...

I have a friend who believes if you are baptized in the Holy Ghost instead of the Holy Spirit you aren't saved and are going to Hell. And then I brought up Christian believes who speak other languages (as Jesus has a different name in every language) and she just ignored the point XD

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#17
Old 09-26-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinglessFairy View Post
stop hating on everyone, humanity! >.<
NEVAR.

Man I wish I had a username change to Humanity before I replied. How cool would that have been?

Not that I have anything to add to the discussion that is going on, as many have said whatever I would have said, but for the sake of not being spammy (and because I'm curious) what is the difference between "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"? Are they not the same thing? Isn't being baptized just some priest pouring water onto a child's head? How can it have two different afterlife destinations?

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#18
Old 09-26-2011, 05:04 PM

Well, "Holy Ghost" was believed by King James to be evil, a holdover from paganism. And, if you think about it, "ghost" and "spirit" are not necessarily synonyms ("spirit" can refer to an essence, or any supernatural being, while "ghost" generally refers strictly to dead people). So, if you're one who believes that the name you give something has power, it's not a stretch to believe that those baptized in the name of the Holy Ghost have been blessed by something distinctly not Christian. And as baptism is, in many sects, a pact of sorts...yeah. Definitely matters who you made it with.

Also, Pa-chinko, there are over 300 religions that we know of. I sincerely doubt you've looked into every single one of them.

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#19
Old 09-26-2011, 07:14 PM

Oh. Well where I'm from, ghost and spirit mean the same thing within christianity, so that's why I don't see any issue. Ghost, spirit, soul, all the same thing around here. Eh. It's kind of a bother that a small word can spark up two different reactions if you ask me, but then again I understand religious people less and less. No, it's not an insult.

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#20
Old 09-26-2011, 10:25 PM

A ghost is the manifestation of a person after they've died. You can believe in ghosts without being religious. Spirits are bodiless supernatural essences that are alive / intelligent. A soul is the combination of a spirit and a physical body. Depending on what kind of afterlife you believe in, after you die you may be either a spirit or a soul.

At least, that's how I understand it.

LOL RELIGION

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#21
Old 09-27-2011, 04:25 PM

I think Pa-chinko's point is none are 'better' than the other. Certain ones may appeal to certain people more than others, but that doesn't make one 'better' than the other

heh, in my opinion, it's not the name you give it that matters, it's the being, or the idea, behind it. Names are names, human creations to more easily identify beings or objects or ideas. It doesn't really matter what something's name is.

though, in my opinion again, baptism isn't a 'requirement to get to heaven' or anything like that =P

it is a symbol though, that can mean a return to God, or a renewing of life, or a commitment, and is good if used in those cases.

Though, in my opinion again, I think making baptism a 'requirement' takes away a lot of the meaning of baptism ):

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#22
Old 09-28-2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hummy View Post

i like to think as long as you believe you will go on to your 'heaven'.
i'm Catholic and believe in God.
it doesn't bother me when people have a different belief.
i don't try to convert anyone or condem them for their belief either.
i tend to think how the bible is translated is all in the way you view it.
for instance i do not believe God, my God anyway, hates gay or lesbian individuals.
i think, and mind you it is my interpertation, that the way the bible was written was in the times of procreation being important to preserve humanities growth.
same sex marriages or couples would hinder that.
there wasn't a very easy way to present this to a vase majority other than word of mouth or the written bible.
if the internet was around for Jesus to use i think it would be a differnt story being told.
i know my God loves everyone and they were all created in his image.

i'm sorry you get sneered at and ridiculed.
religion seems to be a hot topic with almost everyone.
to me it should be a sorce of love and kindness but that just isn't the case.

i like the sceen in 'the mummy' when benny shows the mummy a cross, anch, star of David etc.
he covers all his bases.
who knows what the true religion is, or if there even is one.
i say live and let live, worship what makes your heart happy.
i think God will love us all in the end.
Unfortunately, the Bible can be somewhat vague in certain areas, leaving plenty of room for interpretation, and we have no way of knowing which interpretation is accurate. Some like you believe in a kind God who loves everyone...others believe in a God who is angry and destroys all those that oppose him. If i had to pick, i'd pick the nice God lol. Societies should be rooted in love and compassion, not fear and hate. To me, you seem like a person with a very kind heart who always tries to see the good in people.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa-chinko View Post
I think in the media and through other channels, there's a huge dichotomy that leads to the atheism versus theism, mianly through science or belief in stupidity and ignorance.
I have not found that any religion is better
That's the question i am constantly asking myself, trying to come up with a logical answer... no luck. It seems to me that whichever belief is more prominent in a certain area becomes the 'right' belief, so to speak.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilea View Post
How does this surprise you? Organized religion has been around for thousands of years. In comparison, the complete lack of religion based on scientific research is in its infancy. Things take time to change.

No religion is better, but atheism isn't better, either. They're all on a level playing field, and everyone should just shut their mouths and stop bashing on people who don't have the same beliefs they do.

Their beliefs will have no affect whatsoever on your afterlife. Suck it up and please, for the love of all things, stop bashing each other.
I agree. New ideas need time in order to be accepted. However, you really are killing this discussion. I really do want to hear what everyone else has to say. Again, i apologize for the inflammatory remarks i made before. I swear i will try my hardest to not let it happen again. You scold us for so-called 'bashing' each other when, really, you are bashing all of us. And really, besides that remark that i made, i don't consider anything else said here mean or even very offensive. However, a number of your remarks are a bit too caustic for my taste... this is what this thread is about - opinions. of course, no opinion is any better than another. a...what did you say before...'level playing field'? so anyway, there are going to be disagreements. it's a debate - what did you expect? the best we can do is show some maturity. im not saying im not going to slip up once and a while because no one is perfect. and i will never claim to be.

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#23
Old 09-28-2011, 09:58 PM

Caustic? Well, that's a laugh. :lol:
I don't think I'm killing the discussion by refuting what other people have to say. There are plenty of people who agree with me, and I'm just calling out hypocrisy when I see it.

You really want to know why I've got such a bitter taste in my mouth? I just don't see why we need eight threads in this forum all discussing the same thing at the same time.

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#24
Old 09-28-2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeuzaKC View Post
Oh. Well where I'm from, ghost and spirit mean the same thing within christianity, so that's why I don't see any issue. Ghost, spirit, soul, all the same thing around here. Eh. It's kind of a bother that a small word can spark up two different reactions if you ask me, but then again I understand religious people less and less. No, it's not an insult.
well, from what i can figure, words that have the same denotation (dictionary meaning) do not necessarily have the same connotation (the essence of a word, emotions associated with a certain word, etc. connotations can vary from person to person, depending on the individual's experiences.) such as 'creation myth' versus 'creation story'. most people prefer 'story' over 'myth' because some believe that the word 'myth' implies that the tale is false.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilea View Post
Caustic? Well, that's a laugh. :lol:
I don't think I'm killing the discussion by refuting what other people have to say. There are plenty of people who agree with me, and I'm just calling out hypocrisy when I see it.

You really want to know why I've got such a bitter taste in my mouth? I just don't see why we need eight threads in this forum all discussing the same thing at the same time.
i like to use weird words sometimes ok? dont make fun of my extensive vocab lol XD well, you arent exactly adding much to the discussion. i agree, a few of the threads are similar to this one, but different tangents extend from each one, making them different from the next. kind of like a fingerprint the way i see it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinglessFairy View Post
I think Pa-chinko's point is none are 'better' than the other. Certain ones may appeal to certain people more than others, but that doesn't make one 'better' than the other

heh, in my opinion, it's not the name you give it that matters, it's the being, or the idea, behind it. Names are names, human creations to more easily identify beings or objects or ideas. It doesn't really matter what something's name is.

though, in my opinion again, baptism isn't a 'requirement to get to heaven' or anything like that =P

it is a symbol though, that can mean a return to God, or a renewing of life, or a commitment, and is good if used in those cases.

Though, in my opinion again, I think making baptism a 'requirement' takes away a lot of the meaning of baptism ):
wonderfully said.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinglessFairy View Post
Well, i tend to think that science and religion could get along...it's just a lot of scientists are very closed minded.

I mean honestly, Quantum mechanics doesn't make an ounce of living sense! Rational would tell us that it is impossible!

However a true scientists knows that something does not exist because we can or cannot understand it! If reality is a certain way, then it is a certain way, we can only strive to learn the reasons as we go, and many times we must simply accept that our way of thinking is not perfect, and things happen in reality that do not fit our way of thinking ^.^

heh, I guess my one big argument I had with my atheist friends is I feel that believing in all creatures coming from a single cell that formed in a primordial soup requires just as much faith in believing in God. I find it hard to believe that something living came from something nonliving, they find it hard to believe in a God. It really takes faith on both accounts.
And you have people argue one way or the other, but in the end it really does just boil down to that. ^.^

I've seen some of you are annoyed by people calling you insane for not believing in God, I agree, that's dumb of people to say.

Though, as a counter point, I'm really effing sick of the scientific community for saying I'm an idiot for believing in God and a creation theory.

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yes, unfortunately humanity likes to hate on everyone ):

stop hating on everyone, humanity! >.<
well, i dont really see any need to have 'faith' in the theory of evolution, exactly because it can be scientifically proven. you could call it a 'belief' i guess, given the fact that i accept this theory as a truth. however, it is a theory. and theories are subject to change. but for now, it's the best scientific explanation we have.

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#25
Old 09-28-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilea
How does this surprise you? Organized religion has been around for thousands of years. In comparison, the complete lack of religion based on scientific research is in its infancy. Things take time to change.
This is a quote of mine from earlier, and it was not directed at you, but at another person in the discussion. I don't think that wasn't contributing anything. On the contrary, personally, I thought it was something that needed to be said. And that was the only thing I said besides 1.) my original viewpoint, and 2.) scolding you for a remark that you later admitted was bigoted.

So if those were the only three posts I made outside of the conversation we're having right this moment, I'm having a hard time understanding how I'm "not adding much to the discussion." I can understand being hostile towards me because I scolded you earlier, but I see no reason why you can't accept that different people are going to contribute different viewpoints, and instead call out my opinions as having no value to the conversation. Make sense?

 



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