** To start off, I realize that there's probably already been, like, twenty ba-zillian threads made about the same thing as this one. And, yes, I realize that there's a chance that this will lead to a ma-HOOSIVE argument. But, yeah. I'm just a little . . . worried. >.< **

Okalie dokalie. So. I've been a member of Menewsha since around February of this year. I love to role-play here and have made many new friends very quickly. I love the community and I think that, for the most part, Inso and the mods do an awesome job of keeping the site going and keeping the site safe. :yes:

Now, I realize that this is probably where the flaming is going to start, but this thread is mainly about both the "Jason Ferrando" and the "Gabriel" Community Discussions which I came across only the other day. Now, I'm not here to throw wild accusations at anybody. Not at all. And, before I begin, I would just like to state that I have never had any connections // relationships // knowledge of either users. Well, apart from Inso. EVERYBODY knows him. :roll: But I would also like to point out that I have read most of both of the threads. I'm not just talking about the first post, not bothering to take into consideration anything else that may have been posted. :squee:

I'm just feeling a little concerned about the whole situation that occurred. Part of me wonders if it really needed to be so . . . extravagant ? I mean, I can understand Inso's point of view. In the case of Jason Ferrando, I can understand his reasoning of publishing such information. The hacker go into the system and COULD'VE done a HELLOFA lotta damage. He didn't, but he COULD'VE. So, I can kinda understand that. But, what about Gabriel ? I was always under the assumption that PM's were s'post to be "PRIVATE MESSAGES". I'm still a little fuzzy as to why Inso would reveal such messages to the people of Menewsha in the first place. I'm not here to moan that he isn't doing his job, I'm just a little scared now that if I do something wrong, I could get into a lot of trouble. >.<

This may be edited at a later date. If I think of anything else. Sorry I'm such a llama. :headdesk:

VIVA LA MENEWSHA ! :yumeh1:

I'm a little confused here, what PM's are you referring to? Maybe my brain is a little fuzzy here, but neither of those threads reference PM's that weren't sent directly to a staff member. There is a HUGE difference between PM's between two regular users, and those that are sent to any staff. Gabriel consented (although begrudgingly) to have information sent to staff shared, and there were no PM's involved with Jason Ferrando. In fact there were other PM's sent to staff that were not shared as there was no consent given.

Yes, Inso. I'm refering to the PM's between Gabriel and Daira. :yes:
I'm just a little concerned about the possibilities.
It's probably me just being paranoid, but the thought just struck me a few days ago.
If PM's like those between Gabriel and Daira have been shared with the 'average Joe's and Jill's' of Menewsha, what's to stop somebody posting PM's between one regular user and another, if fault is found with them ?
Now, I really, really, really hope you don't take my next question as me thinking that you would do such a terrible thins, because I don't believe that you would. But, as Admin, can you view other people's PM's as you please ?

I'm sorry to be taking up your time, Inso. I'm just worrying, is all. :/

I am sorry but, why the fuck is something being re-approached to the surface? You do realize that with this thread you are recreating the issues at hand on a forum level with the users right? My suggestion, drop it and call it good.

Edit: My next response, if you decide to go all 'bitchy' with it. Will not be anywhere near as nice or concerned as this one was. I will go all out. I will make you cry. I will not get a warning over it because I know the sites limitations and rules.

Edit 2: I would like to see those PMs between Daria and Gabriel. If they can not be back up with screenshots and viable proof. Please, shut the fuck up. It is both a disgrace to both people over the matter which is nothing more then rumor spreading whorism. Which is the same fucking bullshit you see in high school and is quite annoying.

Granted, I am not saying you do not have proof nor that you are unable to listen too. I just see so much shit posted up that I don't bother to pay attention unless proof is provided.

I know, I'm sorry to be bringing this all up again.
I'm not meaning to cause another huge argument or anything.
I'm going by everything in the thread created by Inso ;; "Gabriel"
I just feel worried about privacy.
If it's going to turn into a flame war then I'll drop the subject and everything.

I would never even dream of being bitchy about it, Tijdon.
I'm not here to argue with anybody.

Originally Posted by RainbowMuffinage

I know, I'm sorry to be bringing this all up again.
I'm not meaning to cause another huge argument or anything.
I'm going by everything in the thread created by Inso ;; "Gabriel"
I just feel worried about privacy.
If it's going to turn into a flame war then I'll drop the subject and everything.

I would never even dream of being bitchy about it, Tijdon.
I'm not here to argue with anybody.

lol Privacy is the one thing this site holds up. As do all previous staff member regardless of there blief on the situation itself. However, coming in and making a thread over this same thing that is addressed in threads across the site only achieves personal satisfaction even though people have to go through and reapproach the situation for a third or fourth time JUST to please one person.

Okay. Never mind.
I'll see if I can get this thread locked or something.
Sorry for bringing it up. (:

Originally Posted by RainbowMuffinage

Yes, Inso. I'm refering to the PM's between Gabriel and Daira. :yes:
I'm just a little concerned about the possibilities.
It's probably me just being paranoid, but the thought just struck me a few days ago.
If PM's like those between Gabriel and Daira have been shared with the 'average Joe's and Jill's' of Menewsha, what's to stop somebody posting PM's between one regular user and another, if fault is found with them ?
Now, I really, really, really hope you don't take my next question as me thinking that you would do such a terrible thins, because I don't believe that you would. But, as Admin, can you view other people's PM's as you please ?

I'm sorry to be taking up your time, Inso. I'm just worrying, is all. :/

I'm still a little confused here. Those PM's were regarding and in direct response to an infraction. Any and all information and PM's regarding infractions are shared freely with staff as it is a very necessary part of their job. By Gabriel giving up his right to privacy on that matter, all staff owned PM's became very much public. His consent to the matter was given as mentioned previously.

Regarding PM's between users, the only reason they would be shared with the community are four situations I can think of:

1) A PM is reported and it turns out to be spam advertising other sites. This generally would not be shared unless it was bulk, eg... 1,000+ spam messages sent out, in which case I feel the community has a right to know that the staff is protecting it from unwanted PM's (which may result in emails being send). Note that the user being spammed has to report it otherwise we wouldn't know about it.

2) A user has committed a serious crime which needs to involve law enforcement. For example, if it was reported that a 30 year old user was sending naked photos of themselves to a 14 year old user, then we would be forced to deal with it. Those PM's would most likely not be shared with the community to protect the victim, however if they needed to be shown to law enforcement then they would be.

3) A user gives consent to their information being shared. This is the case with Gabriel.

4) A non-staff user decides to share a PM with the rest of the community. We can't really do much about this and it's really not our fault. Matters like this are very much a case by case basis.

It's worth noting that PM's regarding infractions are the one situation where staff share information between ourselves. Every infraction gets it's own resting place in the backend where staff can choose to store whatever information they like that is important to the infraction.

It's also worth noting that the mere act of even trying to look at a users PM's is very difficult. Mod's cannot get into anyone's accounts of see any PM's sent or received. For us to see a PM it basically needs to be forwarded to us.

This is why those things shouldn't be posted on the forums. I don't get why you guys (Tjidon and Inso) are upset when people bring up things that you posted. If you didn't want them discussed or scrutinized, why post at all? I know that I said I would stay out of these discussions, but they keep coming up. And every time, users get flamed by some staff members for bringing up this topic.

You're upset with users who say not to post the conversations/public infromation/etc, but then you're just as upset with those who decide to speak about it. : /

I agree with Siri. Don't get me wrong, I personally have nothing against either Inso or Tjidon but these things do tend to make emotions run high and they just cause drama so why post them? I mean I know that the situation with both the thread posted was something that does not happen much here and that the public needed to see some information but they just got way too out of hand in my opinion.

Also I don't think many users read the Private Policy of the site if they're worried about personal information.

Originally Posted by Mystic

I agree with Siri. Don't get me wrong, I personally have nothing against either Inso or Tjidon but these things do tend to make emotions run high and they just cause drama so why post them? I mean I know that the situation with both the thread posted was something that does not happen much here and that the public needed to see some information but they just got way too out of hand in my opinion.

:yes: Agreed! I don't have a personal issue with Inso or anyone else. I certainly am not defending the parties involved in either case. As they were both wrong. However, those situations just seem to cause a lot of grief. Just like every now and then a there is a grumble about a certain user who went down in a public way.

Sure, it should be allowed to rest. However, it won't. :/ I get the message loud and clear it's property of Insomniac. But, you still can't be surprised that people are going to have an opinion, questions, for who knows how long about a public issue. It was posted on the forum and is accessible even if the threads are locked. It is available to be read, scrutinized, and the whole gamut. It's going to thrive like Freddy Krueger and won't stay down just because you/I/or anyone else wants it to.

I don't think it was necessary to be rude about it either. She did say the public incidents left her with questions and she was worried. Rainbow wasn't making any demands. The solution of PMing Inso won't work, because obviously he is terribly busy and couldn't respond to a clogged inbox. :3

Oh, thank you, everybody, for understanding. :3

Okalie dokalie, Inso.
I feel better now that I have a little more understanding on the situation.
Though, may I just ask.
In regards to the "Jason Ferrando" thread.
(( And, seriously, I'm just pondering, here. ))
Was there really such a need to post the hacker's high school, home town and address of residence ?
I mean, I totally understand that by posting usernames, emails, etc. you were warning us to ignore anything he sent.
But, his house address ?
What relevance does that have ?

Again, my apologies for bringing this up, and for being so inquisitive. (:

I don't think it's about a "need" for anything. .-. Now you're poking into motives. More of a public declaration pooling any and all information about them.

Actually, I think ...no I know something similar was done somewhere else. Can't remember where. But, I don't think so many details were given. Definitely full name, pics, email for doing something illegal. But the admin warned in advance that would happen if they didn't take torrents down. *rolls around* I think that's what it was. They were hosting something they had no business/rights to. I'm a tech idiot. But yeah. >.<

Originally Posted by Siri

This is why those things shouldn't be posted on the forums. I don't get why you guys (Tjidon and Inso) are upset when people bring up things that you posted. If you didn't want them discussed or scrutinized, why post at all? I know that I said I would stay out of these discussions, but they keep coming up. And every time, users get flamed by some staff members for bringing up this topic.

You're upset with users who say not to post the conversations/public infromation/etc, but then you're just as upset with those who decide to speak about it. : /

Wait, where were my responses upset or angry? Please point this out to me since I'd think I would know if I was upset over the matter. Also, where have I said I don't want these matters discussed or scrutinized? The shear volume of time I've put into responding to threads like this seems to indicate otherwise.

Originally Posted by Snowflower

The solution of PMing Inso won't work, because obviously he is terribly busy and couldn't respond to a clogged inbox. :3

Is this put words into Inso's mouth day? Yes I am busy, but the one person who PM'd me asking for clarification got it. For the most part, I try to respond to all PM's or at least forward them to an appropriate staff member wherever possible. Please don't go telling people I'm too busy to respond to their concerns if it's clearly not the case.

Originally Posted by RainbowMuffinage

In regards to the "Jason Ferrando" thread.
(( And, seriously, I'm just pondering, here. ))
Was there really such a need to post the hacker's high school, home town and address of residence ?
I mean, I totally understand that by posting usernames, emails, etc. you were warning us to ignore anything he sent.
But, his house address ?
What relevance does that have ?

Dystopia brought this up and had her concerns over the matter answered in the 'Dear Admins' thread over here http://www.menewsha.com/forum/1768147601-post26.html

----------

Originally Posted by Snowflower

I don't think it's about a "need" for anything. .-. Now you're poking into motives. More of a public declaration pooling any and all information about them.

Actually, I think ...no I know something similar was done somewhere else. Can't remember where. But, I don't think so many details were given. Definitely full name, pics, email for doing something illegal. But the admin warned in advance that would happen if they didn't take torrents down. *rolls around* I think that's what it was. They were hosting something they had no business/rights to. I'm a tech idiot. But yeah. >.<

That definitely wasn't me, but I'm not really surprised. I hate people who think it's okay to pirate other peoples work.

I was talking about an admin on a different site. I didn't say you had anything to do with the torrents. O.o

*shrugs* I was going from this. I've always taken that literally. Good to know otherwise.

Originally Posted by Snowflower

*shrugs* I was going from this. I've always taken that literally. Good to know otherwise.

This thread brings up concerns about actions I made, how would you expect any other member of staff to respond on my behalf? That passage is very literal, I shouldn't be receiving PM's about the following things for example:

Change my name
Move this thread
Please close this for me
How do you override double post
etc...

They are all matters any member of staff can help with, and will likely result in the PM being forwarded. Something like privacy? Other members of staff can give their opinion, and quote me, but otherwise they really can't speak on my behalf.