Neph, why are you being so aggressive about this? :? No-one's saying don't have goals.

My own personal issue is the sense of entitlement that a lot of people have these days. Not just on here, it's a global phenomenon in pretty much every first world country. It makes me extremely sad.

I had quest goals on Gaia that I just gave up on because the item's price escalated out of my reach, so I moved onto something else. Try as we might, there will end up being items on here that end up out of some people's reach. But there aren't any newer items that are never going to have their numbers increased.

You're not likely to have the NPCs drop into threads and randomly give out their items, unless they're feeling extraodinarily benevolent. Because, well, they used to do that, until they became completely disillusioned with how they were treated by a lot of people...

NPC: Hi
User: Hi
NPC: How are you?
User: Holds hand out for NPC item
NPC: O_O *leaves*
User: *complains*

That about covers it :(

Well that's true jelly, about the NPCs and randomly giving out items. :( I know lots of people flock to a thread if they know a NPC is there just to get the item. And if they don't get an item, some people will feel it's unfair and start questioning why. Perhaps if during events more of the NPCs could possibly come out and chat with people? Or maybe if NPCs help host threads then page prizes could be NPC items etc.

This makes it sound like you're making items unattainable to teach us a lesson.

The items are not being made unattainable though.

Yes.

Why are you ignoring us?

You're right Nephila, about Menewsha choosing to hand out items that way.

But in my case and many other user's cases, we cannot afford to spend real life money to purchase items. If more items start being in the donation shop, won't people start complaining that it's too much as well? I know I have trouble coming up with gold to purchase the two donation items that menewsha does have, and I for one am against placing more items in the donation shop. Once in a while is okay, but if it's every month, I would be exhausted trying to make enough gold. And the crazy amount of donation items some other avatar sites have is one of the main reasons why I stopped going on many other avatar sites. Menewsha is one of the only sites that has kept the two CIs.

Currently, the items are free even if we must wait for a chance at it. If the items you're suggesting to go into the donation shop are exclusive and will not be handed out for free anymore during events or other promotions I'd be extremely upset. Putting it in the donation shop exclusively means only a certain few have it--especially if it means it will "leave" the donation shop sooner or later. It will become rare faster and this time the rarity will be permanent, no more staff tinkering with the quantity like they do now. And if it was not exclusive to the donation shop then people that paid for it will complain that other people are getting a free item that they paid for.

In four years time, new users will be complaining about the rarity of said items and I guarantee you the situation will be worse. Why? People that donate can only afford to donate so much. Person A can donate 20 bucks a month now with two contribution items. Person A will only be able to donate 20 bucks a month no matter the amount of contribution items. Right now Person A can afford 4 of each contribution item a month. In the future if a special contribution item comes along and it costs 5 bucks, Person A can now only afford 2 of each contribution item and the 2 of special contribution items or a mix of the three. This greatly decreases the amount of contribution items in circulation. Both contribution item and special item available quantity will be lowered and rarity rate will be quicker and come faster.

One of the reasons why the older contribution items are not more than what they are now is probably because of this. The value of CIs has stayed relatively low because of the quantity of all CIs in circulation. 5 years from now, I do not want items that are being sold now to be impossible for new users to get either.

I'm sorry but although I agree that the prices are ridiculous for NPC and Auctioneer items, I do not want the items to become special donation items.

I do like that NPCs hand out special items for free, and that we get to chat with them. <3

Being able to add more copies of a special item to the economy is a good way to handle those special items, too.

*And I love the winter background on the new donation item.*

Siri please, we're not ignoring anyone.


With regard to realistic questing goals, in no way am I (or anyone else I don't think) saying set your sites low and give up. What I am saying is, and I'm being brutally honest about my own feelings here...if you feel it's impossible for you to gain a certain item, please don't start making demands for more to be released. Because, you know, all that does is piss me off.

We truly are not trying to be bitches and make your quest goals impossible, yes we made a rod for our own backs because of how the NPCs first started giving their items out, but on a site that can't develop fancy coded features for people to be able to earn these items, it's really damn hard to come up with reasonable ways and means to distribute these items fairly. Which is why some are now given away as event prizes, because giving them away at random to people the NPCs talked to was a complete failure.

We are absolutely not sat here thinking, "Oh well, the NPC items are a pain in the ass, let's just not give any out any more". We will come up with ways of getting them out there, fairly, not just handing them out willy-nilly, and not flooding the place with them so the people who already have them get mad because their value plummets. We would never sell these items for cash as that would be monstrously unfair to those who can't donate.

Please note, I'm not talking about the Auctioneer stuff here, as that's nothing to do with me.

This is another tl;dr-ish post so I broke it down in quotes so people can identify it better.
What? Comparing a Online Avatar Community with a limited userbase to real life? I'd honestly just stop replying here and laugh for hours at that but I'll give me two cents on the other half. People go to "painstaking" lengths to acquire the item because it's something you can feel proud of. I could have all the lower CI's that all the new users and their dog has, but why would I want that? Wouldn't it be more fun to acquire an item that few users have? Remember that this example is related to CI items and not what the thread is talking about.

I can quest for 10000 of said item, who's you to say that it's not quest? It doesn't matter what the "nature" of questing is, questing is questing. It's what gives Menewsha activity and that's what we want. Period.

To be fair, exchanging there is much more friendly thanks to the high userbase. I had friends who joined in 08 and they exchanged their way through to having multiple 03 items till this day. Unless of course you're talking about the Angelic Halo, which not only is it a completely different case but there's enough remakes today to give you a similar buzz.

If people lower their expectations, that's their problem. Doesn't mean the people who really want the item will be stopped to quest them and doesn't mean we're going to stop complaining. It's how it is. (I do know you corrected yourself in your next post, I was replying as it went.)

NPC items are a different story, they can be achieved in other Event Threads until future notice. Hence why I didn't mention them.

To be fair, wish, having those rare items in the donation shop doesn't entirely mean that HAVE to put it for the same amount of Mennies as CI's nor do they have to put it for the same time period. What if they did it by seasons? (4 months) and only had it worth a dollar worth of mennies? It's just passive income for them, really no reason NOT to do it with the right financial strategy.

Events are only week(s), CI's and such are a month long. Meaning if you were on Vacation for said event for a holiday with your family? You're still equally fucked to put it nicely so it's not a big deal. Why would people complain that people can pay for item when they can get it for free? Well people are paying 40k+ for these items so it's pretty much the same slap in the ass if I donated $20 to the site.

As NPC items release by events to my knowledge, there's really no need to even discuss this as the items will decrease in rarity overtime. The retired auctioneer items however, will not.

The only crossfire with that is that the NPC's hog a huge amount of attention from users' threads because people are drooling over those possible to obtain items. Why go to a low quality art thread from the kindness of their heart when I can have an item that will skyrocket in rarity?

Greed? That's how they find it worth because you can't find it ANYWHERE else. That's the problem. If there's more then people will consider lowering prices because the market has a 'fair' amount in circulation.

Do note that if someone puts that 50k NPC item and even if no one buys it, everyone has the illusion that the item has that value even if it's completely false.

This. Although honestly, I feel sort of bad how Avatar Communities are a dying breed in this age and Menewsha is struggling. But it's lack of motivation to adapt to different methods only pleases the purists. The purists can get over the Two CI a month method and adapt to the new one.

We need RIG's, Season Timed Items, something giving our Mennies Worth (Since we're paying for Mennies... for what? Two items? I mean if we're donating anyways why do they need to make it seem like some sort of currency exchange if the offers are that limited anyways?)

If you try focusing on everyone's rant you're going to get a headache. Just try to focus on what bothers you most on the thread (let it be my opinion or others) and give your two cents. Of course this is a feedback thread so it always goes both ways.

I agree with this, just saying.


Also, I still feel that releasing the NPC's as items to be donated for may sound unreasonably unfair, but if you look at mene's situation it seems, well, logical. It would essentially be a similar effect to the CI's. People who can not donate can buy them with gold from users who do donate. The only problem I can forsee has nothing to do with fairness but rather the amount people donate just simply being split between the CI's and the new items rather then actually donating more.

I never said it had to be the same price. I'm just saying it will affect quantity of other CIs. The reason for CI abundance is because of only two available items. In this case, price of each little to do with it. Like I said, a person that donates a specific amount of money each month will always only ever be able to afford that much. How would it bring the site more income if the same people donate the same amount of money each month but just split up differently into three items? Only the quantity of each item in circulation will be affected.

I don't want to see this site going toward the donation item route when I know it's the reason many other people hate other sites and call them greedy.

Why are we talking about new items in the donation shop anyway? Was this not a discussion to bring out a better way to distribute NPC and Auctioneer items?

1. If the site does what you guys said and implements the items into the shop, we would still be rolling around grumbling about NPC and Auctioneer items. It provides no solution to the real problem, only a slight diversion.

2. If they create new items for the donation shop, why would they do that if people are going to still donate relatively the same amount of money to the site? Where is the incentive for menewsha and wishie?

3. We had a third item before in May 2011, Ningyo, Time's Titan, and Karasu Ningyo. But the third item was announced halfway through the month. Correct me if I'm wrong, Menewsha said they were testing out a third item to see how it would fare. Menewsha never sold a third CI after that. Did menewsha get a substantial amount of donations more that month than any other month? Based on mene's actions in the past 6 months, I'm going to assume the donation amount was not substantial enough to create a whole new recolor for CI purposes.

4. Should Menewsha be doing bonus items then? Bonus items are given when you buy a set of CI. But those bonus items' rarity are pretty insane now too aren't they since their quantity is actually based on CI sales. I personally do not like this because the items quantity do not match regular CIs and they are more rare and hard to come by and they are only one pose. And it feels ridiculous paying 5k-10k extra for a one pose item.

I know what you're thinking-- at least that's cheaper than 40k. Yes, and no. It's cheaper, but in the long run will be much more expensive and out of reach. This is not so good because of the limited quantity; so 5 years from now you want to buy the Silver Serpent Bracers? Tough luck, pay 50k or you won't get this one pose item. The current system, although items are more expensive in the beginning, the value will go down due to future distribution and the staff meddling of quantity. 5 years from now you want the Mr. Mayor's Crafting Adventure? Oh look, Mr. Mayor is hosting an thread in the Halloween event, perhaps if you join it you'll get one. Or, there have been many in circulation lately, as Mr. Mayor has been handing them out at every event, the item's worth is only 10k now.

5. The current system of distribution of the items are making people angry because they want the items now. A future implemented system of more CIs can create quantity problems and rarity problems in the far future which will lead to more complaints. We should be trying to help come up with a creative idea of more distribution of the current NPC and Auctioneer items, not implement more ideas that could possibly ruin the future mene economy.

Oh dang reading all this has been quite a feat

I do agree something needs to be done. I do not like how these new items are becoming just as rare and expensive as the older items, it's crazy

I do agree that Mystery/NPC items should have another way of being given out. I see where Jelly is saying why we can't put them in the store for that week and stuff because then only people who donate would be able to get the items but in the same thinking what about people in different times zones? I go to college in the states so most of the time I'm around the same time zone as most menewshans but my parents are in the military and live overseas so when I go to visit them for winter break during the winter event I'm (and I know there are others users as well) on a different time zone. Throughout the winter event I never saw a NPC online the same time I was and so I was never able to go and talk with a NPC. I'm not sure now how/where the mystery items are given out but never once did I run into a NPC. At one point in time I went to Lance's profile to see where he was posting so I might be able to run into him but he wasn't on whenever I was.My point is that it's not fair for those in different time zones that never see npcs online so for posting and talking with NPC for items doesn't work to much either.

What if maybe you could combine these ideas? You could have for every $5 someone donates they get to pick one of the NPC items(for that event) as well as the NPCs giving out their items however it is they give them out. So if someone donates $25 they would get to pick 5 of the npc items or something like that. Then it opens doors to those who cannot donate as well as those who arn't online as much or live in a different time zone

@Wish's Post:

Weird, because even though Gaiaonline is the most "greedy" site ever, yet it's expansions towards the site and the way it evolved allowed it to continue to be the most active avatar community today. Although this is a terrible example - MySpace was the tyrant of Social Networking for years until Facebook saw what they did wrong and somehow managed to become the next big thing simply because they evolved the right way and they took RISKS thinking Simplicity would be the future, it is. (For Social Networking Of course.)

Menewsha has been in the same stage since 2007 with minor tweaks, although the harm of different owners had slowed the process the financial strategies are so limited it hurts. Now I'm no business guru because I wouldn't be studying and would be running my own company obviously, but me and my brother studied sites movements (Traffic spikes, dead hours etc.) to see how do these sites evolve for the better.

This is why I mention the donation shop topic and such:
Consider it more like a sub-topic if you will, nothing wrong with adding this to the conversation while it's there instead of remaking a thread for this when staff can see our posts both here or there.

1. There's no way to prove that being true or not, it's a risk on evolving and it can either flop or not.

2. Maybe I think the two items are pretty lame and I could spend a low amount on an item that I've been debating to get for a while? Using the example I did above.

3. It's like they expected some whopping sales in two weeks, aren't bills usually payed mid-late month? It was a one trick pony that flopped, it happens.

4. As you had to pay an [X] amount of donations, they make them rarer than regular CI's, Auctioneer & Mystery items since it's the control of the users that grants their rarity. I complain because the staff can DO something about the lack of A&M items.

5. Regarding Auctioneer Items it's pretty obvious how to ease it up by distributing it more often than just retiring it after the month. NPC items? They can just make a small moment where said NPC makes a Menewsha Nation thread and let it last a bit and distribute it from there.

It'll open doors in the sense that people can donate to get the items or they can post/talk with the NPCs so they have two different ways instead of just one way
and that's why I was saying for every $5 you would get to pick a npc item from that event so it you donate $25 then you could pick 5 npc items -> then if you have extra mennies save them for months after the event when donating no longer gets a npc item

I mentioned greed because we are a small community and as with other small communities, menewsha cannot be compared to gaia. Yes gaia is active, but with what? The community, the scale, and the user base are completely different from menewsha. Now if you were comparing it with Ernya or Roli, then that would be different. I do not visit those sites anymore, but I know I got pretty fed up with the crazy amount of donation items Ernya kept throwing out. Myspace was geared toward teenagers and Facebook targeted specifically college students and young adults.

How does site evolution correlate with traffic spikes and dead hours? I always thought it had to do with site features. Unless you're taking note of what features draw more people to sites.

Now it's beginning to sound like you're suggesting that in order for menewsha to evolve they must have more donation items per month? Like you said, where's the proof in that? Gaia CAN have 20 items per month to be sold because of their large user base. What makes you think menewsha can do that and won't pay for it in the future with a cruddy mene economy?

1. No way to prove what is true or not? That if they create more donation items that people won't complain about NPC and Auctioneer items? Why wouldn't they? At the moment what problems would a new donation item solve?

If they create a new donation item right now and release it tomorrow. Would it make a difference in us feeling that Auctioneer items and NPC items are still too rare? No. Because it has absolutely NO effect on NPC and Auctioneer items. Completely different subjects. Unless you're suggesting what Anglie's suggesting.

2. So you think it's pretty lame? No big deal, not everyone thinks it's lame. You can buy it anyway and sell it for gold to purchase an item older CI you've been wanting for a long time, or donate for the mennies and wait until next month.

3. An example is all we can go by. So it flopped. What makes you think in the future it won't flop? It really depends on the person when a bill is paid, but I don't see the relevance in that. If a person has 20 bucks to spend a month, why would it matter? They manage their money so they know how much they can spend and how much they can't. Besides mid-month is when people get paid. Every 2 weeks and all that.

4. It's more like it's the user's wallets that grant their rarity. Because they're rare do you expect users to shell out more money from their wallets to get more thinking for the good of the community so that in the future they don't become too rare?

What I'm wondering is are you for this idea or against it? You are saying Auctioneer, NPC, Mystery items are too rare and low in circulation because of their quantity, thus their high price. However, 5 years from now, the Silver Serpent Bracers will be rare, low in circulation because of their quantity, and have a high price. The only difference between the two is that staff can meddle with the numbers on one but not the other.

Yes I do understand the frustration with the lack of NPC and Auctioneer items. I used to have all the items on the site a few years back. Then bam, these NPC and Mystery items came out and I didn't have all the rares on the site anymore. But one thing put me at ease: that in the future I could still acquire these items because the staff will release more. It is never truly out of reach--the staff can and will generate more.

Donation items and EIs if not in abundance will be out of reach to most people.

5. I don't have a solution for it. But I do agree that they need to do something.


PS. Ayx I need to do my thesis. >[ :illgetu: If I can't finish this semester it's soooooooooo your fault. XD :feesh:

Can cora just put one thing out there.

She's really not that concerned with the rarity of items. She's pretty confident that she will one day have them all if she works at it hard enough.

Does she think a few more could be out there.....sure......but that doesn't mean I'm that concerned. Sure I think it will be holy hell to get....ohhhh say.....channah's SNG, but then I already have one of them so there you go, its really not all that impossible. The main thing people on mene need, and indeed have very little of, is patience and hard work.

Lurking in here any reading all the post is a bit over whelming.
I notice that everyone isnt always going to be happy, there is no way to make everyone happy.
Like the fact that I think this shouldnt be such a huge issue, I do see why some people would think it should.

I just hope that everyone understands that there isnt a way to please everyone....
Yes I wish I can get the items that I want much easier.... I do wish there was more out there.
But I just wait, save up enough gold, and when I do have a chance to get the item I want I can be ready.

As far as the auctioneer items and NPC items go, I think its the user who make those items as much as there are. As far as price wise I dont understand whats the issue, there will be people who will buy things just because they have the gold to do so.

I will not stop donating just because it may seem a little unfair that you didnt get a NPC item for free from an NPC; I think thats just crap..... You donate to save the site..... to keep mene alive.

At least thats why I donate, and the CI are like a bonus.... I dont want to come across as a bitch when I say I dont care if they do decide to put these items up for real money because if I can spend the money I will for mene..... yes some people are not able to but if it has to come to that.... then so be it

I dont think its wrong to state your opinion, but the back and forth stab are not necessary.

Heres my two cents lol! I joined in 2008 and donated quite a bit at the start. But i also was lucky in receiving a lot of friends inventory's when they left. Also i'm quite a good exchanger i like to think. So i wouldn't say im uber rich but i'm doin pretty well. I have a chance at getting rare items, because of this. But i feel super bad for people who aren't in my position. And even if you are in my position or better, it's hard because these items hardly pop up. Especially the channah items, it's almost like she gave out a bunch and then disappeared lol.

I am guilty of getting a mystery/npc item and then reselling it. But not really to get more out of it. Because i buy the item and then realize i don't like it. OR i get bored with how the exchange is and start to sell off my rares to get a bit of excitement pumping lol.

But yeah, i don't know why they took away the GBA or the Quest Raffle. Those were really awesome, especially for those older items that are so outta reach. And not just because of the value. Because there aren't too many people keen to sell theres, or there just aren't enough around. But i dunno i guess the staff have their reasons. And with NPC items it does say those items are still in circulation. So it may take some time, but hopefully we'll see a few more pop up here and there!! We don't wanna see an abundance of them, that will only devalue the item and make it not so interesting anymore. *coughs* booger cookies *cough* xDD

Shy_Ness: Let me be frank here; I've donated not only to help Mene, but to help myself get gold and other items as well - and I'm assuming a majority of people who donate have the same mindset. That's one of the main reason people donate to avatar sites. Rarely has it anything to do with actually "loving" an avatar site, but rather "loving" the items and enjoying the site enough to spend money on. An avatar site is an avatar site, after all.