Regarding the Rarity of Auctioneer/Mystery Items.
 

Note#1! English isn't my first language so please excuse any grammar mistakes.
Note#2! The non-bolded parts are not as important, so you don't have to read too much into it if you're just looking for the interesting bits. You can also refer to the TL;DR in the end. Thanks!


Obviously this is a rant, however it is food for the thought on how the Menewsha Economy is one again getting the 2007 effect. In case some of you people weren't around for this time period in the site, the Valentines Day 2007 Event Set & the St. Patty Day 2007 Event Set were extremely rare, even with the site being very small and you could count the users who had these items. Sadly, most of those items were hoarded by Offsite Traders and others doing a lot of under the table activity and made these items even MORE out of reach for these users. It came to a point where these users had to give an arm and a leg for these items, which was understandable because there was only a couple of hundred of users with these sets. How did they solve this? Once most of them were caught Aeris and other staff managed a Giving Back Auction so the items can once again be placed back in the market, this lasted for a long period of time and thankfully the items were back into a state of having a chance to get to own an item or two of this rare set.

I took a break from the site during late 2008 and was on and off during this period, I just returned and notice the Marketplace which was Menewsha's smartest move I've seen in a while. While it does hurt people who dominated the exchange forum, it also gave users a chance to get some gold or get items they were specifically looking for instead of having to navigate through pages of chat exchange threads to hopefully get a chance to offer with minimum knowledge on what they're worth. Of course with the good half of returning to new things I come up to look into the bad things.

These stupid, overpriced once again out of reach once they're not available to about 70% or more of the site Auctioneer Items.

Does this sound like I'm butthurt? Possibly. However I think it's stupid that after everyone complained, bitched and moaned about RARE items not being able or extremely difficult to acquire that were NOT Contribution Items, somehow this situation will obviously revitalize and happen again. It's like they somehow think it's good for some users to have rare items that spike to ass ton prices because the 1% gets them.

What gave me the idea to post this thread?

I had a conversation with a user the other day when I was interested in offering on her Blue Gow, not knowing that there was already a normal white "Gow" from the "Take Me To Your Leader" Contribution Item. When she told me the item is worth 40k? That's when it hit me.

Why does these two recolors? http://www.menewsha.com/images/items...7d70a14db8.gif http://www.menewsha.com/images/items...4df125a7fd.gif are almost FIVE times the worth of the contribution item with a theme AND two color Gows? http://www.menewsha.com/images/items...2c8068916f.gifhttp://www.menewsha.com/images/items...7353680be0.gif

Because they're Auctioneer Items. Meaning they come in limited quantity unlike Contribution Items, that as long as you manage to shell out some cash the item can still be in circulation for the duration of the month. Not that I'm against it entirely, it's smart in paper but on the long run these items worth just sky rocket and NO one can really do anything about it because for one person who is kind enough to sell theirs cheap, 4 others don't care and WHAM it up some 10ks.

So I ask you people Why donate money or spend $10-$20 dollars on items you hope to inflate a bit to be able to get older items in the future when you can just get lucky and manage to get that one rare item who's value is enough to get you multiple sets?

Of course they'll always be the goodie two shoes "I help the site out by donating" which is completely fine and I respect that. Not everyone is the same, if I spent my last $10 knowing that the item was going to have some re-color and my item will barely make anything gold wise so I stay stuck in the gutter with low end items forever? Fun!

Some people here try to be somewhat worthy wealth wise in this site, it's one of the main reasons people STAY here because the items are very well done and it's always worth trying to grab it. Not of course you're new and you see one item that just came out this YEAR topple times seven the value of 2007 contribution items. So have fun stacking on commons and budget CI's because that's as far as you're going to go!

I guess my main gripe is that these items came out months ago out of nowhere sky rocket into the market with unreachable prices for the majority.

This is only the Auctioneer Items ladies and gentlemen, don't even let me get started on the Mystery Items.

Whoever thought this idea was good? Hats off to you for trying to bring out the "Ernya effect" and slap items that are simply unreachable for 90% of the site. An item that was named after a staff member and there's only TWO in existence? Seriously, what the fuck? Not only is that a stupid idea, but how did this even get accepted to be done without seeing that this stirs the pot in the users already low morale on rare items?

http://www.menewsha.com/images/items...d382950f15.gif Want this item? It sold for 100k+ pure the two times it did, do you know how many people just sit on 100k hoping for this item to pop up? I read a thread that the individual was offering EVERY CONTRIBUTION ITEM from October 2007 until now. That's ridiculous for something that looks like a turd on your head right? Well it's super rare and somewhat appealing so why not. (Item: jelly Head)

So technically to become someone valuable wealth wise, it's not about how much money you donate to the site or not how much you Roleplay in this site DAILY. It's about how lucky can you get to get these items and find a way to exploit their worth. Great job!

Isn't this site somewhat on the brink regarding donations? Not that I have any information to prove that, but is there a smart reason why do you guys release Auctioneer/Mystery Items knowing it makes people who contribute to your site's items completely worthless in comparison?

I could argue forever regarding this, nothing will change how I see how stupid this idea is. I could buy these items, at least the ones circulating around the Market and Exchange, but why? Why would I try to contribute to these already ridiculous prices for such an early life span and in such a late stage in the site's life?

TL;DR: Mystery/Auctioneer items are simply just demoralizing for users to contribute if one of their main goals is wealth. Pretty fun I don't have to donate a cent and I could be five times richer than a user who's donated their allowance just because I got lucky.

I have to agree.

I would give most everything for the old items.
I talked to my sister about that (wich was on mene since 07 and then left 2010.).
She told me that the items of everyone who got banned or offline since 07 or something like that, should be given out for auctioning or selling anyways. I said that it wouldnt be ok for everyone who comes back. but those items wont be available for everyone whos online now.

im waiting for someone whos willing to sell me some items of 07 but everyone who has them wont give them away because they are the rarest things on mene. i agree with them, too :o
i wouldnt sell them ether if i had them Oo

but how can we get them, when noone wants to sell them?

To be a bit fair, these 2007 Event Items are almost (Starting February) 5 years old. That's a pretty long life span and a considerably reasonable amount of time for an item to be rare. Tons of users HAD a chance to get these items during the years thanks to the Giving Back Auctions, sadly users after late 09-10? (Not sure when it ended with 07 EI's) couldn't have a chance to grab them. But at least they're around you know?

These items are from 2011. That's right, almost one year and the value to these items are almost the same of those super rare items from five years ago and almost equally (and in the jelly Head's case, more difficult) to obtain. Simply because some people just bought some out of the low budget users' reach and slammed the prices sky high. All we get is a "Oh soz we retired lol!!" for something like that. Do you know how many Event Sets spawn in the Marketplace Daily because users ACTUALLY have a chance to get them without having to rely on luck? Too many to bother counting.

It takes patience and diligence. I currently own 3 of the 07 v-day rares, it just took hard work, dedication, and patience.

I don't agree t hat everyone should be able to get every item on the site. That's not the problem. If someone wants to pay a ridiculous amount for something then let them. I agree that the '07 items SHOULD be expensive because they're rare and not as many are in circulation. I see the problem with newer items being just as expensive. If users stop paying that much then people would not sell for as much.

Also, with the market place, it kind of give false value of items. I think that's where the problem is too. I mean, if someone sells one item that's rare, like the Jelly head for a ridiculous amount then other users who want to sell it, was going to look at that price and try to sell it for the same or similar price.

In short, I do not believe in giving out items or lowering value just because a few users are mad over prices. If anything there are a few items that I think should be more expensive than they are. I'm not saying unattainable, just not as easy to get.

I do expect some of the older items to be rare and expensive of course, even with the GBA old items are very rare to come across. Sometimes the items are deflated that people don't see the need to sell the item because it's simply not worth selling period.

The Marketplace is a strong area, some items are strongly devalued and others are way expensive. Of course I'm guilty for overpricing some of my items, but it's because I simply don't see them worth that low. If no one buys it? Then that's fine, but it's worth giving a shot. Pretty sure anyone would pay 100k if it's only known for being one or the most rare item in the site today.

I think that if they're surely going to continue doing this, then the Auctioneer Items should be around in a bigger amount than they are. I don't need to buy Contribution Items anymore because I'll just stalk the store and get all the non-CI's and hope for the best. Then a few months later sell them to get four of the CI's from that month. (;

The auctioneer items are based on CI sales. I can't remember exactly how the numbers were determined though. I do think that if they're going to be treated as CIs though that there should be more of them.

For what it's worth, the Auctioneer Items are no longer based on sales.

I send 50 of each Auctioneer Item to that account for the Auctioneer to give out throughout the month. If people stop buying during the month (ie: If items expire without being bought or they consistently start selling for a very small amount of gold.), then the Auctioneer stops selling them. For that month. He still has a supply of items and they will sometimes be sent to staff contests for prizes or auctioned off again after several months have passed.

The items are not limited to 50 forever, either. We AAs haven't, however, decided how to limit them ultimately.

You see, these items are a new thing and we're still experimenting, trying to find the right balance between attainability and quest-worthiness. Items certainly need to be a certain level of "gettable" - as you yourself have noticed, if they are a certain degree of out of reach, users get frustrated rather than excited. But rare items should also be "quest-worthy" since it gives users goals. If things are too easy, people don't put in effort. If things are too difficult, they give up.

Menewsha staff have always tried to correct imbalances in the economy. That's why the Giving Back Auctions came about. The Auctioneer Items are to correct potential problems in the economy because of the Marketplace, putting items into the system that will drain some of the gold running through the system because of the Marketplace making it easier for users to buy and sell. They are essentially "gold sinks". The Auctioneer has "sunk" tons of gold out of the economy, so that gold is still worth something because everyone isn't sitting on a pile of it. It's a good thing. But of course, the system isn't perfect yet.

But, as I said, the staff will always try to correct imbalances - whatever that ends up meaning. Sometimes it means putting out a new rare to get people to drop their gold into getting it. Sometimes it means putting a lot of rare items up for auction to make it very easy for more people to have them. Sometimes it means giving out a lot of prizes during events.

The Blue Gow and the How Now are odd items to use as examples of the Auctioneer Items. They were the first Auctioneer Items, so users were extremely excited about them and bid them up very high. It's not the staff's fault that this happened. People will pay what they feel an item is 'worth'. I'm pretty sure that their prices will eventually fall. Maybe you'll win them in a contest. Either way, neither of them has sold recently. How Now's last sale was in October. The Blue Gow's last sale was in August. That means that whatever people have been listing them for is deemed "too much" by the users who want the item. They are smartly not buying and if the sellers ever really want to make a sale, they'll lower their prices to whatever the market finds more reasonable. That's how economy works.

As for the old 2007 rares, maybe the Auctioneer will auction some of those off soon. The last time they were put up, no one bid (something I always found strange - but maybe they just didn't have the gold because the Auctioneer Items were doing their job of draining gold from the economy).

In any case, your concerns were certainly heard. I hope my rambling explanation helps you understand some more of the perspective on your issue.

@CK - if I had the gold for the rare items from 07 when they get put up, I'm definitely going to bid on them. I got my only vday 07 item from the GBA and i love it - I use it all the time! *will just have to save up gold now* XD

I'm going to answer quote by quote so sorry if it gets a bit tedious. 50 is sort of a hard number to work with, although you already explained that it's a number limit that's not entirely established. Of course the items sell for very small amount of gold because they're still in circulation, no one really knows their worth until they're actually gone. It's hard to guess that there was a chance the item could be re-introduced into the Marketplace when the only item not retired yet is the December AI's.
Entirely understandable, I just don't see why isn't there more of these AI's in circulation knowing that the items that should clearly be more valuable is the Contribution Items, to give it value for the money we gave to the site to help it operate in a smooth and enjoyable way. Obviously the AI's are going to be more rare because we have to rely on the Store alone with the limited amount it gives us when that shouldn't be the case. I understand Event Items, because it's a special occasion for a special holiday but why have Event Items when it's almost an Event every month trying to stalk those new items? I'd rather have RIG's floating around than this. (Although I'm very Pro-RIG as a second option for Menewsha.)

I'm a huge fan of the Marketplace despite it's flaws, because no system is perfect. I see the vision of the Gold Sink, I just think that there should be more quantities of these items because it's really a win-win. Why should the items that have nothing to really do with the Contribution Items (Money Wise) be more rare than the items the users pay for? Sure you don't have the power to control us, sometimes you guys get the slow months and it pays on the long run but that should be our mistake for not contributing enough. These AI's have almost 0 value that helps contribute to the site, at least very minimum compared to CI's because buying a Gow or Scythe sure as hell doesn't inspire me to shell out money to get cheaper stuff.

I'd rather have said rares be in more circulation in the Market so people can start giving it the value with the Gold they have, let it be low or high depending on demand. If you just give it to users in the events THEY get to price it meaning THEY have control of it's worth from the get go because they're just too difficult to acquire otherwise at such an early stage of it's release. Us users already have too much power in the Marketplace as it is, we don't need more power by almost giving us a choice how to price these items.

Actually I was mostly just going to bitch at the Mystery Items and some NPC items, because those are freaking ridiculous but I wanted to be a bit more flexible with the situation. I explained why the Gows were my example as it was a situation that was given to me earlier. They haven't 'sold' because the How Now isn't around the Marketplace and the Blue Gow is, as stated before, something only about 20% of the users can manage to shell out (if interested) in the item. Selling rare items doesn't really go buy "Oh I want this to sell, let me be more reasonable with the price." We want the best bang for our buck for these treasures and that's never going to change, ever.

I just can't see why these items are the ones dominating the Marketplace when it really should be the other way around. I understand the old event items perhaps, but why items from this year knowing that there's easier and more flexible solutions around it? Users don't have to worry about these items losing value because we never payed anything for them, just virtual currency which is a risk on deflating or inflating every time anyways. Just like how us 07 users sorta bitched on how our 07 EI's went down drastically in value after the Giving Backs, users with these rare ass items will adapt to it too.


Appreciate the reply.

I'm in the middle to rare items. It's frustrating when an avatar site releases an item that is worth more than most 07 items - where you cannot get it because you just so happen do not have the excess gold at the moment. The fact that people are offering so much for one item and people are still not selling bothers me to know end; because it makes it seem questing is impossible and is discouraging. I understand the need for gold sinks, so I can understand the recolors and encourage that to an extent.

But when you have to be at the right place, right time, with the right gold you will never get that item and that seems more discouraging than actually encouraging. Both to spend gold, real money, and questing in general.

Yes, I think this is sooo frustrating too! I hate working my ass off on this site and not even having a chance to get Channah's items, the jelly head, etc. Some people got lucky enough to get them and they have almost NEVER been on sale. Trust me, I've been looking almost every day for TWO YEARS. >.<

I've recently turning toward exchanging, because I feel like it's really the only option I have left (and that's pretty sad because I'm just going to help ruin the economy even more in the long run). :(

EDIT: And I've been here since 2007, so I can't imagine how disheartening it must be to quest for these items if you haven't been around too long.

Exchanging is one of the only few methods right now that can get us by, I'm totally pro-exchanging. I don't blame anyone who sells these rare items at a high price, because they're rare. You're not ruining the economy, you're working with what you got. It's what we all have to do to get by.

And if we need a gold sink, it would be a lot nicer to just buy something on the site. Like... paying a monthly fee in gold in order to use the Dream Avatar Creator... or buying a pass for the marketplace that allows you to list more items/customize your shop message.

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EDIT: Or you can be stupid like me and buy/sell the same commons over and over again.
WHY DO I KEEP DOING THIS?! xD;;

I agree with hummy; I think it's worth a shot - I mean, they've said they cannot afford to add a third item to the cash shop or the pixel artist is too overworked. What better way to earn money than to put NPC items there for a week during events?

I can see how it may upset some users who already have the item or who spent an excess amount of gold for them, but really, I can really think of no other option to get more actual money if they close off the other doors before they open.

I have to say I actually agree with hummy and nephilia. It could actually work. I for one would pay for them.

I don't like the auctioneer items at all, either. If they were a bonus contribution item like the gold horns or silver bracers, I would buy myself a pair of contribution items to get them. However, since they are just a dozen copies of a super rare item that are sprinkled in, I save my gold and tend to ignore them. *Sigh!* I guess the staff had planed to hand a few out in Nalin's winter thread, but Nalin got sick. Too bad. My gold goes to the monthly donation items and event rares, and that's the way it will stay. That is especially true since I saw Mr. Mayor's Crafting selling in the Marketplace for 50,000 gold. That is enough pure for an '07 rare -- and I have no idea how the craft items -- or should I say ITEM since there is probably only one copy of it -- was ever introduced into the economy. If the staff wants a constant gold sink for the economy so much, why do they not just tack on a 5 % fee to each successful sale in the Marketplace??

No-one's got a gun to people's heads forcing them to pay that much, for anything.

This is no doubt just someone trying their luck. If no-one pays that then it's not valued at that much, is it?

Prices go up because of user greed, surely? That's not something that we, the staff, have any control over :sweat:

I didn't know anyone actually had one yet, o.0

*adds to quest list*

but regardless, I personally like having things to quest for.

Yeah, I think people are quickly becoming "WANT WANT WANT" brats and detracting from the very nature of any economy.

If you want fairness, you'll have to tailor down your expectations and realize that everything in life isn't achievable. :/ I don't know how else to put it than that, from my own perspective. I'm a lover of CIs, but I don't go to painstaking lengths to get everything - I stick solely to CIs, primarily. Being a broke college student, I can only afford to donate once in a blue moon so a good chunk of my gold goes toward getting the ones I can't afford IRL.

At any rate, what I'm saying is that you need to scale down your desires, probably. Keep a moderate head and realize that having everything isn't possible, and reach for those you can achieve.

The very nature of questing isn't to get "one of everything," nor is it to hoard 10,000 of every item. :lol: It's to strive for things that appeal to you and work with your own aesthetic. -shrug- Maybe I'm coming at this from too rational and apathetic a viewpoint, but... Seriously, guys. There should be a limit that you impose for yourself, if you feel too overwhelmed by the presence of these hard-to-come-by items. It's up to you to decide whether the newest item is worth it - and not just because of its "rare" status.

What's wrong with questing for one of each rare item? :(


I think that should be an attainable goal for most users. Maybe not every rare item ever released, but certainly every rare released since you joined the site.

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EDIT: And please don't call me or other users greedy for questing for items that are made impossible to attain by releasing them so haphazardly into the site. :(

Facade; You're right, in life not everything is achievable, but this is an avatar site. And even if a goal seems unreachable I don't see anything wrong with trying to quest for one of everything if that is someone's desire. As you've said questing is to strive for things that appeal to a user, and if getting one of every single rare on this site is something that makes them happy I don't see why a user cannot strive for one of every rare. In real life people buy things and collect items just because of their rarity. Menewsha users shouldn't have to limit themselves just because something is limited in quantity; but I do think some people need to be more patient when trying to reach their goals. For example Mr. Mayor's Crafting thingy just came out -- people are going crazy to buy it. I myself would love that item, but I don't feel like spending 50k on it, because I know in the future I might have a chance to get it from Mr. Mayor during an event. Also in the future the item's price will drop because more will be in circulation. And as Jelly said before menewsha is always trying to correct imbalances. The NPC items are rare--but it is corrected because during events and random periods NPCs hand them out.

More on topic;
I think the main difference is that from NPC items, although rare, people know they will have a chance to attain them. With Auctioneer Items, it was stated before that the quantity was due to CI sales.

However, since the release of these items are not by CI sales anymore, I would appreciate it if the items are not listed as "retired" as there are still ways to get them. It is misleading and I believe it is causing a panic because people think that once a certain month is over, the items sold in the Auctioneer's store for that month is never to be released again -- which is not true. It should be cleared up for all of menewsha that these items are not "retired" forever when the auctioneer stops selling them. It would help with the crazy inflation of the items and calm everyone's nerves down.

Also I have a small suggestion. If the auctioneer could randomly put old auctioneer items up at his own discretion without announcement every so often it would help people that are questing by allowing more to be in circulation. It would also eliminate the current idea that once the auctioneer stops selling the items for that month, it will never be available again. It could be available again through auctions, but unannounced. Maybe a few auctions every 2 weeks of random older items set to expire at random times.

It would also be nice if some of the more rare NPC items can be achieved outside of events too. (I'm not sure if this already happens as I am busy. >_<; ) Like if on a random day a NPC will pop into a random thread and chat and hand out a few items and disappear again.

And I do appreciate that for prizes during events these items are given out. I do not think it should be announced if these items are to be given at at certain contests/games though. This is so that at the end of the contests/games it is a surprise! :)