I had a conversation like this with my friends a few days ago... about parents sending kids to school... and then we ended up in the (once again... :XD) negative aspect of why parents send their children to school... the achievements...

I mean, they help them learn things at childhood and get some achievements... then as the child grows older, the parents pressure them even more to get achievements, making them honor students and such...

Then again, even if they were honor students... Do they even learn the stuff they study??? I mean... I have an example of that:

I had a classmate in high school who was an honor student... and well, in this certain university (where I met Alexandrus Gambino a few months later... :XD) a lot of my classmates, including her, applied... I think she applied for liberal arts... and I applied for engineering... then I just found out that she did not qualify for her course whist I did...

So I wonder...

Do you really learn at school, or do your parents just send you there to gain achievements???

I've been asking myself as well why instead of asking me, "So, what have you learned today, dear?"; they ask, "So, are you on the honors' list?"

Are parents really just supporting their kid's future, or just their achievements...?

Well personally, I think most parents push their kids to do well because they (the parents) have a pretty good idea of their kid's strengths. Granted, there will always be those parents who want their kids to be honor students just for the sake of being honor students, but I don't think that's the majority.

I think that people really do learn at school. There isn't an honors programs at my school (it's a private school so we have AP classes and some advanced math classes) but I think people do learn and aren't just there to get on honor roll or whatever.

Well, I don't know about that, actually. :x
Of course, parents will always want their children to succeed in life. But, I doubt that they send you to school for the sole purpose of gaining achievements. I mean, if that were the case, they'd just make you join random contests or something and win awards there, for example.

But, from what I know about education, the real and basic essence of its importance is that studying and learning in school helps you develop the discipline needed when you go to work. I mean, face it, we won't be needing what makes up electron clouds or something in the future, not unless you're a scientist or a teacher or something (no offense meant to those who want to be such, I'm just using it as an example =O). But, school supposedly gets you used to time management, constant workload, and the like, so that you aren't as overwhelmed when you get a job.

And as for your classmate in the honors course, it doesn't follow that just because she's an honors student, she's supposed to get into any course she wanted. It could have been that the course she was applying for had more people vying for it, or it could be that the slots there were limited than in engineering, or that she may not have done as well in the entrance exam as she could have (I know a lot of people who didn't do as well in entrance exams despite having really good grades).

There are many factors to consider with her not getting into her desired course, some even totally unrelated to her smarts. =P So, it's kind of unfair to say that your honor student classmate didn't learn anything because she didn't get into the course she wanted. ^^;;

Of course, I'm not going to say that parents would not push for achievements. It's always nice to get recognized. My opinion though is that while parents would want you to gain achievements in school, I don't think that's the sole reason they send you to school, as I mentioned earlier. xDD;; Sure, some parents value achievements more than others, but that is usually on a case-by-case basis, and not true for all the parents in the world. =P

Just my two cents~ 8DD;; <3

Originally Posted by Rylynne

And as for your classmate in the honors course, it doesn't follow that just because she's an honors student, she's supposed to get into any course she wanted. It could have been that the course she was applying for had more people vying for it, or it could be that the slots there were limited than in engineering, or that she may not have done as well in the entrance exam as she could have (I know a lot of people who didn't do as well in entrance exams despite having really good grades).

There are many factors to consider with her not getting into her desired course, some even totally unrelated to her smarts. =P So, it's kind of unfair to say that your honor student classmate didn't learn anything because she didn't get into the course she wanted. ^^;;

Actually, it WAS hard to get a slot in engineering... In fact, it's harder than liberal arts... but yeah, I think she just didn't do well... I took it quite seriously... XD


but yeah, I posted this topic because another friend of mine suffered from parents expecting too much form her just because she had high grades and became an honor student in grade school... her parents were pressuring her, and I thought maybe a person or two shared her pain... :|

I never meant to say that getting slots in Engineering wasn't hard at all. =O But, from what I know, there are loads of specific kinds of Engineering (Industrial, Chemical, Mechanical, etc), while Liberal Arts offers a lesser variety in terms of specifics. But, that could just be our education system here, since I'm not sure if your engineering is a general course or it has specific types. ^^;;

And, well, I can relate to an extent to your friend. :<

I'm the first in the family (on both sides even) to get into the premier university in the country. And I'm the eight grandchild on both sides as well, so my entire family was ecstatic that someone finally passed. ^^;; Also, in my first semester, my grade point average was high enough to garner recognition. So, that only adds a lot more expectation on my part.

Being an honors student isn't easy at all. Being the first makes it even harder. >.>;; I'm lucky to have parents who don't pressure me as much as I'm sure other parents do, but I do get the feeling that they always expect me to maintain or get higher grades than I already do. I mean, the natural course IS to move up higher than where you currently stand, right?

Right now, it's not that hard dealing with their subliminal messages for me to keep up my current standing. But the very few times that they do mention it out loud usually gets us in a debate. =| Not a heated one where we scream at each other and stuff, but a debate nonetheless.

I do hope your friend is doing all right though. :< Pressure can be very hard to deal with. >.>;;

ps: Please don't make my example as bragging. D: It's just background so you guys know where I'm coming from in terms of my stand. ^^;;

I don't know if the honor roll/acheivment thing really measures academic achievement well.
I find final exams and whatnot are a more accurate reading of what someone has learned.

That's a silly question, of course I learn in school. Also, I don't think you can really get an award (besides a participatory one) without learning. Even if it's just a short term learning.

I'm an honors student. I don't have a family that's very... pushy. They want me to do my best. If honors weren't the best classes for me, if I would do better in regular classes, then that's where I would be. I wouldn't be looked down on or anything. I have a supportive family. ^^
They think it's great if I get an award or anything but they don't freak on me if I don't. Also, they do ask what I've learned, not about my achievements as far as awards go. Achievements like what I got on a test is another thing. They want to know so they know if I've been studying enough or if I need help with a subject; they just want to help. :sweat:

As for parents who are all about achievements and what not, I think it's silly. They sound like people who want to "be better than the Jones."

I think it differs from parent to parent. In the end though, they seem to just want their kids to be successful. They just have a different way of thinking when it comes to what success is.

Originally Posted by Rylynne

I never meant to say that getting slots in Engineering wasn't hard at all. =O But, from what I know, there are loads of specific kinds of Engineering (Industrial, Chemical, Mechanical, etc), while Liberal Arts offers a lesser variety in terms of specifics. But, that could just be our education system here, since I'm not sure if your engineering is a general course or it has specific types. ^^;;

And, well, I can relate to an extent to your friend. :<

I'm the first in the family (on both sides even) to get into the premier university in the country. And I'm the eight grandchild on both sides as well, so my entire family was ecstatic that someone finally passed. ^^;; Also, in my first semester, my grade point average was high enough to garner recognition. So, that only adds a lot more expectation on my part.

Being an honors student isn't easy at all. Being the first makes it even harder. >.>;; I'm lucky to have parents who don't pressure me as much as I'm sure other parents do, but I do get the feeling that they always expect me to maintain or get higher grades than I already do. I mean, the natural course IS to move up higher than where you currently stand, right?

Right now, it's not that hard dealing with their subliminal messages for me to keep up my current standing. But the very few times that they do mention it out loud usually gets us in a debate. =| Not a heated one where we scream at each other and stuff, but a debate nonetheless.

I do hope your friend is doing all right though. :< Pressure can be very hard to deal with. >.>;;

ps: Please don't make my example as bragging. D: It's just background so you guys know where I'm coming from in terms of my stand. ^^;;

No, I don't think it's bragging at all...

Anyway, I'm taking up Electronics and Communications Engineering (which is rumored to be the hardest because it's a mix of Electrical Engineering, Computer Engineering, and IT plus telecommunications...) and my dad doesn't pressure me, only my mom does... Well, mostly she keeps on reminding me that "her and my dad's blood, sweat, and tears were used to pay for my college education and that I owe them a lot"... (one reason why I was to audition at my university symphony orchestra; to obtain a scholarship):sarcasm:

And here where I study, the variety of liberal arts is just as much as the variety of engineering...

I'm just frustrated that just because I get to be on the honor's list even just once, mom expects my grades to be higher the next... (probably because of the "discount" in fees but I know they can still afford to let me go to college)... and when she sees my grades slide down, she'll yell at me and threaten to ban me from the Internet... D:

(I know I might be selfish, but I just hate to be pressured... <.<;; )

Achievements are totally worth it. I heard the opposite of your story, where the guy who was perfectly qualified to fabricate and weld, because he was taught by his dad, didn't get a job, where captain "Study hard" got his job and died three weeks later because he broke a safety regulation!

Crushed by pipes, he was.

Well, I was in honors classes throughout my twelve years of basic education. I even graduated tenth in my class, but I wouldn't say that I'm smarter than anyone else I know. Really, I did a lot more memorizing than actually learning when it came time to test, and I definitly don't remember everything that I learned throughout high school even though that was just a year ago.

So I wouldn't say that Academic achievements really prove that someone is smarter, and I don't think parents should strive for achievements as much as they do what we learn. My parents just wanted me to have A's and B's in class. They were pleasantly surprised to hear I was in the top ten.

Originally Posted by Sho-Shonojo

Well, I was in honors classes throughout my twelve years of basic education. I even graduated tenth in my class, but I wouldn't say that I'm smarter than anyone else I know. Really, I did a lot more memorizing than actually learning when it came time to test, and I definitly don't remember everything that I learned throughout high school even though that was just a year ago.

So I wouldn't say that Academic achievements really prove that someone is smarter, and I don't think parents should strive for achievements as much as they do what we learn. My parents just wanted me to have A's and B's in class. They were pleasantly surprised to hear I was in the top ten.

There we go! That's what I meant when I said that my classmate failed the entrance exam that I took yet she was an honor student... More or less she was only memorizing the things that were taught in class.

And I didn't want to get my parents to see my grades and be like, "Wow, my kid's an honor student!" and blah... they usually expect more if they see high grades... and I hate it when the expect too much from me, it'll be quite annoying if they (especially mom) pesters me to study on a regular basis...

I think when that kind of thing is lorded over others then it is wrong.

My example is out of my HS who was pushing to have top preforming students, like every one else in education that is trying to bail them selves out of the business they have become, by having you go in to Honors and AP. On top of that they instated a policy that if you got below a C you got slapped in to "study hall" AKA morning detention that you were required to go to if you wanted to be in your extra stuff (I was in Theatre, and despite being in the advanced tech class where the point was to serve as the in house crew it was an extra thing...) I being more of an Arts student aka rather draw then solve physics HW, had my grade dropped below a C and got slapped in to this "Study Hall" for the afore mentioned Physics. So I was all ready pretty insulted and feeling really really crummy over the whole thing as I have allways been a decent student and found their "study hall" a waste of my time (they had no one to help you, it was sit in silence and do HW). Then to add to this the door to the room opened one morning and two kids poke their heads in and as the door closed I caught them saying "Oh no that wouldn't be the honers meeting they aren't right crowd" (Mind you I have forgotten the exact phrasing but you get the gist). That was pretty much it for me and I spent the rest of "Study hall" in tears as I felt horrible just cause I wasn't in their Honors program I wasn't any good. Then too another girl who had the same problem go out of the same study hall cause she was an honors student who had to be at the meeting. Pissed me off I tell you.
So really it is when Honors and things like that are abused that bother me, there is no harm being on the deans list and such but when you think the people below you that don't have a 4.0 aren't worth it that I have issues. I know a good handful of decent kids who don't have the honors list and such because they are keeping a job or are not academically minded but still are very smart. And too just because you are on a Honors list dosen't mean you are "smart" My sister is a 4.0 student but dang she lacks common sense and thus has done some pretty dumb things. (Not saying all you 4.0 type do but the vast majority are shall we say less then aware some days.)
And when Parents push and say if you don't get A's and B's then you are just worthless makes me super angry not to mention it burns out so many young people who have to struggle to live up to what their parents want. Most of them really don't get any thing cause they are being pushed so hard and struggling to keep up in those classes.

And again I have nothing against people being rewarded for doing well, it is when they make others feel bad because of it that I get a bit upset.

i think it depends on what kind of academic achievement your getting, if its math, science or something along those lines then yes but if its something that you don't actually need in life like art or french then no

lets see...base on my experience...its at no use at all...
since I can learn them from reading books and surfing the net...

Yes I think so. However this does not mean other achievements do not matter. This is just one kind of achievement. SO>>>it doesn't mean everything/.

If you're into it, sure. I know a girl who is so boring academics is the only thing she's really known for. But her opinions aren't hers, they're ones from CNN news anchors and snooty magazines. We discussed politics once, and she didn't know what she was saying, she was just spouting facts. @[email protected];

I'm really very average. I'm good at somethings, bad at others. I'm secondborn, but they weren't hard on my brother either. They recognize that we're pretty much adults and can do what we want.

Originally Posted by AcidDrop

i think it depends on what kind of academic achievement your getting, if its math, science or something along those lines then yes but if its something that you don't actually need in life like art or french then no

'Cause apparently foreign language and art are not important, riiighhtt.

Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that my school has honors and AP classes, I wouldn't be as disciplined as I am today.
The "regular" courses were always filled with a bunch of annoying students who didn't care if they failed out of school as well as students who actually paid attention.
Through my own desires as well as pressure from my parents, I was able to get myself into all honors classes so I could actually learn without interuption.
For some people, it is perfectly fine to stay in "average" classes.
However, if it weren't for Honors or AP, I wouldn't have learned nearly as much as I have nor would I be at the top of my class.