I'm genuinely curious as to what you guys think it would take for this site to generate more activity, and why you think it lost so many users in the first place? It's such a lovely website, and it's unfortunate that it's not as active as it once was!

Why I think Mene is Failing In General

• Lack of advertising (not even on the facebook group or elsewhere)
• People still here are typically much older now and have kids and/or other commitments.
• Activity only happens if you're in a clique (one of those long standing threads in hangouts and if you aren't then, well good luck trying to fit into one!)
• Inflation and lack of older items in circulation.
• Lack of activity for new members that somehow come across mene.

Other things I noticed and eventually made me check out. It also needs to be said that everyone is different. These are negatives to me and may not be to you:

• Asking payment for recolors that take minutes.
• Potentially being lied to in regards to Jelly leaving.
• Identity politics mixed with mostly naive people coupled with a lack of moderation (people inferring belief that any other way of thinking is stupid without those posts being dealt with or anyone facing any real consequences for posts like that).
• Spammy topics that never foster discussion. Community members as a whole seem to just respond for to the first thread post and seldom to each other. It's that "gimme my gold" mentality. Exceptions being the IRL/Extended discussion forum but even that has this huge negative where everyone is either a keyboard crusader for some cause or takes things super personally. There's a sublist to this:
  • Count'em threads in event forums and other "Gimme my Gold/Event Currency" threads. These kill great opportunities to actually mingle with people outside the hangout threads. I'd actually like to see an event forum where no one gets to make their hang out thread and event currency can only be made there. NPC threads only. I'd be interested in seeing what happens. Will people talk? Who knows, but I think it'd be worth it to see.
  • Topics where I really question if the thread originator even cares or if she/he just wants gold. These are the "lets post something semi-controversial and see what comes up" type of threads. In my head I think, "you're not fooling anyone. Your opinion is not going to change and you DO have one, you're just profiting off of making others argue."
• I'm also one of those people that moved on. life happens. I'm here only when I am either procrastinating or have insomnia and burned through social media content and have nothing left to binge watch on netflix/hbogo or nothing left I want to read. There's just not enough left here to pull me back in.

This will be taken as me being a pessimist but there's next to no chance it can be turned around. There would need to be different leadership. There would need to be people pulling for advertising and not just word of mouth, I mean paid for ad campaigns. There would need to be members leaving their hangout threads to take time to help people that are new stay. There would need to be some method to readjusting inflation. There would need to be a move away from posting the political/religious topics and members instead trying to post things of interest outside of that. It's not impossible, I just don't see it happening.

I think the biggest reason why there is a lack of activity is the fact that most of the frequent posters are gone...

They are either busy with real life or lose interest because there isn't any new content.

Originally Posted by TheEmpressofEvil

Why I think Mene is Failing In General

• Lack of advertising (not even on the facebook group or elsewhere)
• People still here are typically much older now and have kids and/or other commitments.
• Activity only happens if you're in a clique (one of those long standing threads in hangouts and if you aren't then, well good luck trying to fit into one!)
• Inflation and lack of older items in circulation.
• Lack of activity for new members that somehow come across mene.

Other things I noticed and eventually made me check out. It also needs to be said that everyone is different. These are negatives to me and may not be to you:

• Asking payment for recolors that take minutes.
• Potentially being lied to in regards to Jelly leaving.
• Identity politics mixed with mostly naive people coupled with a lack of moderation (people inferring belief that any other way of thinking is stupid without those posts being dealt with or anyone facing any real consequences for posts like that).
• Spammy topics that never foster discussion. Community members as a whole seem to just respond for to the first thread post and seldom to each other. It's that "gimme my gold" mentality. Exceptions being the IRL/Extended discussion forum but even that has this huge negative where everyone is either a keyboard crusader for some cause or takes things super personally. There's a sublist to this:
  • Count'em threads in event forums and other "Gimme my Gold/Event Currency" threads. These kill great opportunities to actually mingle with people outside the hangout threads. I'd actually like to see an event forum where no one gets to make their hang out thread and event currency can only be made there. NPC threads only. I'd be interested in seeing what happens. Will people talk? Who knows, but I think it'd be worth it to see.
  • Topics where I really question if the thread originator even cares or if she/he just wants gold. These are the "lets post something semi-controversial and see what comes up" type of threads. In my head I think, "you're not fooling anyone. Your opinion is not going to change and you DO have one, you're just profiting off of making others argue."
• I'm also one of those people that moved on. life happens. I'm here only when I am either procrastinating or have insomnia and burned through social media content and have nothing left to binge watch on netflix/hbogo or nothing left I want to read. There's just not enough left here to pull me back in.

This will be taken as me being a pessimist but there's next to no chance it can be turned around. There would need to be different leadership. There would need to be people pulling for advertising and not just word of mouth, I mean paid for ad campaigns. There would need to be members leaving their hangout threads to take time to help people that are new stay. There would need to be some method to readjusting inflation. There would need to be a move away from posting the political/religious topics and members instead trying to post things of interest outside of that. It's not impossible, I just don't see it happening.

I really appreciate all of the thought and consideration put into this response, as every point you made is valid. It made me think of my own activity on this site, and how I need to be better at engaging and stepping outside of my usual chat-zones. Not that my individual actions will bring Menewsha back to life, but it's certainly a step.

I suppose with this has to come better communication between users and admin in general, because I strongly believe that if there was a serious discussion we could really make some changes! Everyone would just have to be willing to listen and contribute, which I guess is where the hard part comes in.

Originally Posted by Ava The Vampire

I think the biggest reason why there is a lack of activity is the fact that most of the frequent posters are gone...

They are either busy with real life or lose interest because there isn't any new content.

Very true, real life does seem to get in the way of activity around here. It just makes me wonder what kind of content would be enough to keep people engaged? What do you think? c:

i quit my first account for a number of reasons. one of the big ones was, as others have said, lack of overall activity on the site. but going beyond that, a lack of meaningful updates and progression was another one. even now after i've come back, the shops are just as unorganized and hard to navigate as they were when i left. we still have a "nose" feature on the avatar maker but no noses. there's still a huge lack of variety in hair styles and textures. i still have to hunt through a tiny number of special/donation items if i want any kind of facial hair at all, and even then most of it is comical or fantasy-based. "feminine, fantasy, and anime-inspired" still seems to be the running theme of the site, and that kind of look is something i lost interest in after the novelty of avatar sites in general wore off years ago.
i think this site's problem is the same as most other avatar sites. it's a concept that was new and appealing to a younger crowd in the past, but if nothing is done to update the look, the concept, and the functionality of the site and no effort is being made to attract a wider variety of users, the ones who were there in the beginning will eventually outgrow it and there will be nothing left to draw new people in.

the shops need a major overhaul. there are way too many and it's impossible to find anything without having to use a search function--for which you'd have to already know what you were looking for. browsing is a nightmare.

the items need more variety. i have seen some improvement in variety of item themes on this site as compared with similar sites, but we still haven't really stepped outside the realm of fantasy-based and mostly feminine. i think it would really benefit from representing more types of people, a broader range of interests and styles, and more modern and realistic looks.

more involvement from staff would also be helpful. one of the things that kept me active on other sites i was on for so long was having actively involved staff who seemed to really care about the community and be a part of it. they hosted mini events and q-n-a sessions, posted regularly in the forums, got to know the users, and were always visible and quick to respond to feedback. when the staff became less a part of the community, the users quit caring.

going back to issues with the layout and function of the site, i think the homepage also needs a major overhaul. announcements and latest CIs should take more of a spotlight. i had to look at it a few times to realize they were even there. meanwhile, the main forum page feels kind of dull and lifeless. i'm no web designer, but as an average user, i don't find it very engaging. nothing draws my eye, and the announcement banner just looks like an annoying popup that doesn't go away.

if we want more activity, i think improving the site itself (the items, representation of different themes, the layout, the functionality of the shops, etc) is something that should not be overlooked. even if you try to encourage more activity in the forums by being active and prodding people out of their usual hangouts (another big issue--all the activity is concentrated into a few threads! it also drives away newcomers who will feel like outsiders no matter how welcoming people in their hangouts try to be)... people will eventually leave if the site doesn't have much to offer and nothing ever seems to change.


edit: adding to the thing about shops, we have the same issue in the forums! there are WAY too many forums and subforums. it's all just a lot of unnecessary clutter that over-categorizes things and further ensures that any activity we do have will be lost... like tears in the rain.

Originally Posted by Sporcle

I'm genuinely curious as to what you guys think it would take for this site to generate more activity, and why you think it lost so many users in the first place? It's such a lovely website, and it's unfortunate that it's not as active as it once was!

Menewsha is a lovely website.

To make Menewsha popular, I think, requires events. And events require manpower from staff. Unfortunately, the staff here are unpaid volunteers and they can only do so much.

It is also my opinion that the site probably doesn't even generate enough revenue to cover it's server fees and the owner of Menewsha covers this cost to maintain the site. At the risk of seeming glib, we're lucky to get what we get.

As for why members are leaving the site, for us diehards, Menewsha is like a hobby, but for others, it's something to do to occupy periods of inactivity or boredom. While others who were once regulars have went on to become more engaged with their own lives and families and this lifestyle change occupies most or all of their free time.

My current lifestyle allows for periods of free time where I am not able to engage with family or real life friends and so Menewsha is my preferred way to fill in my gaps of free time.

I think one way to keep Menewsha afloat is to continually engage our newest members and several of us are doing this. I know several avatar site fans have come from other sites that have closed and are seeking new homes. It seems like avatar sites are losing popularity overall and this is sad.

I don't want to be that person but i'm going to compare this site to the other sites that do have loads of activity. Well obviously the big one is gaia. It had a lot of advertising and many young people would join with their real life friends.
An avatar site that is mostly active is Recolor.me
Now, i know that most of the users and content posted on there is for mature audiences. and it's generally trolling and jokes. But they have some serious forums as well. Their general discussion forum is active every minute it seems. At certain points of the day theres just so many threads and new posts being made. Making money is easier on there and it's easier to get items. But even if making money is easy. People stay there because theres so many new posts and you can post pretty much whatever you want. They do not have so many restrictions and i think that attracts an older crowd of people. Most of the people on there are 20 year olds. So i don't think it has to do with attracting young people only.
I think most people who post on avatar sites now want to talk about serious things or just joke around..
BUT menewsha is very different than recolor in many ways. I don't think mene could have forums with less restrictions. haha

I left because of reasons I don't want to post publicly.

I came back because I was bored af and already had stuff here (whereas on another site I'd have to start over, meet new people, etc, bleh).

Originally Posted by TheEmpressofEvil

• Potentially being lied to in regards to Jelly leaving.
  

.

Can I just say that no one is being lied to about Jelly. Staff has been as upfront as they can about Jelly's leaving. It's really Jelly's business to talk about it and she opted not to do so on Mene. The staff has given you as much information as Jelly wanted out there and as much information as the staff felt appropriate to say because it's not their story to tell.

What the staff has told you isn't a lie. They aren't going to elaborate on it though because that's up to Jelly herself.

It wasn't on bad terms, I can promise you that. <3 Jelly is beloved by all on mene, including staff, and we ALL wish she was still here.

(I'm former staff, so I hope they don't mind me answering this. Not only that, but Jelly is a good friend. She is the one who inspired me to pixel and get better at pixeling. She took a chance on me and I love her dearly.).

---------- Post added 04-16-2017 at 10:55 PM ----------

I also want to say that mene caters to users who want to actually have conversations. Gaia/recolor.me is more spammy...it's more inviting to young people who live in the world of 160 characters/post and that's it. Once they get older, I find they realize they want more and navigate to sites more like Mene.

Gaia/recolor/etc have a lot of advertising and Mene doesn't make enough money to spend on advertising unfortunately. So I think those are a couple reasons Mene is slower.


EDIT:

I also think that many of the old users are now....old. Seriously. I was a teen when I joined mene. I'm now 27 years old. I just bought a house. I work full time. I'm married. I don't have the time to devote to coming on here as much as I used to. I used to pixel for mene and I LOVED it. There was time when that was the ONLY thing I did when I came home from work. And I burnt out and decided I needed more in my life. I love mene dearly and always will. But I stepped down from staff and I don't come on that often simply because I made my real life a priority at the moment. I think a LOT of users did the same.

Originally Posted by Maria-Minamino

Can I just say that no one is being lied to about Jelly. Staff has been as upfront as they can about Jelly's leaving. It's really Jelly's business to talk about it and she opted not to do so on Mene. The staff has given you as much information as Jelly wanted out there and as much information as the staff felt appropriate to say because it's not their story to tell.

What the staff has told you isn't a lie. They aren't going to elaborate on it though because that's up to Jelly herself.

It wasn't on bad terms, I can promise you that. <3 Jelly is beloved by all on mene, including staff, and we ALL wish she was still here.

(I'm former staff, so I hope they don't mind me answering this. Not only that, but Jelly is a good friend. She is the one who inspired me to pixel and get better at pixeling. She took a chance on me and I love her dearly.).

You see right there, that's the lie. When it was talked about it was inferred that this was time off to deal with personal issues. Fine. Life happens. And I really don't care to know Jelly's business. But if you all (former leadership) knew jelly was not coming back. period. why then make it seem like jelly would? And how can you not see that making it seem that way would come across as a slight to people that were vested in this community? If Jelly's stepped away permanently that's fine, but as yet none of the leadership (to my knowledge) has made such an update. It's just one of those things no one talks about or questions anymore and most people probably even forgot it was a thing. This is why I stressed this was a list of MY negatives. I'm one of those people that does not appreciate feeling lied to. It's probably my biggest pet peeve. I should amend my statement to "feeling lied to" if that helps. Even with your justification I still FEEL as though I'd been lied to. I know you're right about users being older. s fun as events are, real life will trump online activities. Raising children, going to work, adulting in general, should always come first.

@uncledaddy: I agree in regards to shops. I can see it being overwhelming. I'm not sure that any coders are left to change things around like that. I think we can do away with stores that are separated by "price" and instead have shops dedicated to Skits, Shirts, Dresses, Jackets, etc. In my head that'd be easier than trying to remember if items were a boutique item or a hot gossip item. There was a move to go in that direction with stores like hopscotch and I felt it helped. At this point though there are just pages and pages of items and it probably still wouldn't be ideal that way either.

@Sporcle: I'm glad you found some use in what I said. I think getting more people to step outside the bubbles of comfort would be one of the greatest things users can do for mene.

Originally Posted by TheEmpressofEvil

You see right there, that's the lie. When it was talked about it was inferred that this was time off to deal with personal issues. Fine. Life happens. And I really don't care to know Jelly's business. But if you all (former leadership) knew jelly was not coming back. period. why then make it seem like jelly would? And how can you not see that making it seem that way would come across as a slight to people that were vested in this community? If Jelly's stepped away permanently that's fine, but as yet none of the leadership (to my knowledge) has made such an update. It's just one of those things no one talks about or questions anymore and most people probably even forgot it was a thing. This is why I stressed this was a list of MY negatives. I'm one of those people that does not appreciate feeling lied to. It's probably my biggest pet peeve. I should amend my statement to "feeling lied to" if that helps. Even with your justification I still FEEL as though I'd been lied to. I know you're right about users being older. s fun as events are, real life will trump online activities. Raising children, going to work, adulting in general, should always come first.

@uncledaddy: I agree in regards to shops. I can see it being overwhelming. I'm not sure that any coders are left to change things around like that. I think we can do away with stores that are separated by "price" and instead have shops dedicated to Skits, Shirts, Dresses, Jackets, etc. In my head that'd be easier than trying to remember if items were a boutique item or a hot gossip item. There was a move to go in that direction with stores like hopscotch and I felt it helped. At this point though there are just pages and pages of items and it probably still wouldn't be ideal that way either.

@Sporcle: I'm glad you found some use in what I said. I think getting more people to step outside the bubbles of comfort would be one of the greatest things users can do for mene.

I'm saying that wasn't a lie. When Jelly left, it was temporary for personal isses. It was and still is. Jelly has personal issues that have lasted waaaay longer than she anticipated. She even told US it was temporary. So I'm telling you, the staff has given you their best information, not a lie. I have spoken to jelly in quite a while. A few of the staff have and Jelly is still working through those issues. She still loves mene...she still asks about mene. But as of her uodatea, she can't come back yet. Staff hasn't announced any official step down or forever retirement because they don't know if there is one. They are telling you what they know, I promise. They aren't intentionally sweeping things under the rug or lying to you. They are giving the best information they know without giving Jellys personal details away.

Empress - The issue with the whole clique thing... is that newbies don't jump in to threads. Often times I'll welcome a user into my thread, they are actively kept involved by multiple users, and then they will vanish. There is definitely a deeper issue. Though yes some also simply wont join a thread because they are worried about interrupting a thread.

How to remedy that? Well... we need a way to possibly label hangouts which actively welcome new users, and those that prefer to invite users so there is less anxiety about where they can join.
One thing to add though Maria, is that she does sometimes look through threads without logging in. So she is here in spirit sorta.

About jelly. She was at one point on the fence about coming back.
I do actually ask if she intends to come back to mene sometimes. I don't think she even knows if she can handle the workload she used to do.

As for how to improve mene?
I think that ultimately falls to US. We need to be more welcoming of newer users, because a lot of users leave because of US.
We have a lot of issues among us that divide us, and new users see it and get some of that.
We have to teach and nurture newer users. Many of them say mene is hard to navigate, we should be guiding them.

But ultimately I do feel the reason mene is dwindling is because nobody even knows we exist. We NEED to spread the word but nobody will invite family or friends.\

--

I could write a book on why mene is dying. Jelly said it best:

A catch-22 is a paradoxical situation from which an individual cannot escape because of contradictory rules.

The catch 22. Need people to get people, need money to make money.

That's exactly it Poet...Jelly herself isn't sure when she can fully come back and do what she wants to be able to do. So as long as it is a maybe, staff isn't going to count her out.

I do feel that with a lot of the things she did it has made the site feel awfully empty.
Maybe in the future we could distribute some of those tasks to other staff? Of course, retire the penpal system, but of the other things she did to keep the site alive.
I remember the art contests were always amazing, as we had so many talented or aspiring artists who could improve themselves during those events. It's the little things really.

there are just 324 active members what i see only half of that is online it is a good site for getting peoples input catching up with friends and what not ..most people get tired of the same ol' or just busy and dont have time ect.. life happens they abandon it and ghost or just go to gaia which has more active users most times im busy with life and games lol but guess people could start recommending the site to friends start a chain.

There are a lot of users though who have said they would never invite family or friends. They want Menewsha to be a place they can take a break from them. Of course, this is another thing killing the site, is the refusal to introduce the site to others. Some do, but a lot don't.

Thank you for making this thread.

It was sad to read through this. I was not very active when I first joined this site in 2008, then took a really long hiatus. So I never got to fully experience Menewsha when it was apparently flourishing.

But look at how many people came out of the woodwork to respond to this thread! :)

---------- Post added 04-18-2017 at 12:07 PM ----------

To respond to some of the comments that were made already --

I never really felt there were cliques on Menewsha...I wonder if it is a matter of people being shy? Unless a hangout thread is labeled "private," everyone should feel welcome to post in that thread. You should always feel free to post in mine :)

The point about old users being older now is so true!! I personally joined Menewsha back in the day along with a zillion other avatar sites when I was younger and had so much more free time in my life.

I agree that for me, Menewsha is also just a hobby or to fill in periods of inactivity, aka procrastination because I definitely have a ton of productive things I should be doing right now.

I am one of those people who would not invite real life friends to Menewsha :( I did invite people when I first joined, when my friends were a younger demographic and into avatar sites. And my brother was on Menewsha for a little bit too. But I now use his account as my mulie.

---------- Post added 04-18-2017 at 12:09 PM ----------

I think there definitely needs to be more advertising for this website and activity on the Facebook page or some other social media outlet.

We could also take matters into our own hands and make a "Menewsha users" hangout on Gaia or something. So non-Menewsha members will have their interests piqued.

Originally Posted by Maria-Minamino

I also want to say that mene caters to users who want to actually have conversations. Gaia/recolor.me is more spammy...it's more inviting to young people who live in the world of 160 characters/post and that's it. Once they get older, I find they realize they want more and navigate to sites more like Mene.

Gaia/recolor/etc have a lot of advertising and Mene doesn't make enough money to spend on advertising unfortunately. So I think those are a couple reasons Mene is slower.


EDIT:

I also think that many of the old users are now....old. Seriously. I was a teen when I joined mene. I'm now 27 years old. I just bought a house. I work full time. I'm married. I don't have the time to devote to coming on here as much as I used to. I used to pixel for mene and I LOVED it. There was time when that was the ONLY thing I did when I came home from work. And I burnt out and decided I needed more in my life. I love mene dearly and always will. But I stepped down from staff and I don't come on that often simply because I made my real life a priority at the moment. I think a LOT of users did the same.

I guess recolor.me and mene are just different types of crowds.But they both have 20+ year olds. I've seen 27 y/o and older on recolor. I don't think it has to do with a younger crowd. Just different types of people. In mene you have to work real hard to earn money and that means pretty much typing up paragraphs of responses. I like that we have actual conversations here. But sometimes having that ' spamming ' atmosphere brings in loads of people who don't have time to type paragraphs, just want to be silly and have fun. Not a lot of people go on avatar sites to make friends. Everyone pretty much has their established friends. I don't think people are looking to make new friends. And if they are, i would probably find them in mene because that's where we can have long conversations.
I think i'm saying it's nice in recolor to be goofy and post random craps because people go there to release their frustrations in a joking manner. and everyone can relate to that in some way.

And just recolor's system of reply and item database is just easier to navigate. :p

Salvete - The cliques are formed through subscribing to threads. I must admit I do it too, but I have my account set-up to subscribe to any thread I post in, I find it helps me spread out.

It really is true about the users aging. It's amazing the things I have experienced. I've seen so many grow up, get married, and start making a family. Of course, once the little kiddos start popping out people start disappearing.

If I may ask Salvete, what is it that makes you not want to invite friends to Menewsha?

As for the Gaia thread. I'm not sure if things have changed but last I had heard (many years ago) users were banned and threads were deleted for such things.

There is a Menewsha user guild on gaia that was started during the last blackout of mene...someone made it and posted the link k.on the mene facebook page. :)

I just remember numerous incidents of users getting in trouble for posting about another forum. I think they had at the time classified any post about another avatar site as advertising. (Of course this was 10 years ago)

I joined Mene back in 08 or 09 on a different account and rejoined because I wanted a fresh start in 2011. I was pretty active but I came and went as I do with all forum sites. I found it to be a nicer community where I could actually talk to people unlike Gaia where you post once and that's it. It's hard to find a home on Gaia if you don't run a charity or art shop. They got rid of the hang out forum and turned it into an rp section and I don't rp anymore so it's really boring to not have a home.

Here I could find homes in hang outs, I just wish the art section was more active since I love art. That's why I keep going back to Gaia, because I could get art of my characters. But Gaia has no soul, and Mene had that soul I wanted. But it did go away, and coming back recently to see how far it declined is sad. I would love to see this place flourish but it's not social media enough for the younger crowd and the lack of ads is also killing this site. I found Mene because of a thread on Gaia. I see ads for Roliana and Recolor than Mene. You know the saying, it takes money to make money and ads do a lot for that.

With the continuous decline, I don't see Mene lasting much longer. The lack of events, the decline in the shops, and the over all lack of user activity is a bad sign of impending doom. I hope that's not the case but from a business perspective, even if it's all volunteer based, eventually it'll come to an end. :(

Cap - I'm sure Menewsha has a few years left at least at the current rate. Last time Insomniac talked about Mene's income, he was footing the bill for us. (I don't think we have ever made him money)

I find it harder to make conversations here on Mene because there's so little activity and so few people willing to post. I think the most activity I've seen happen here is during events and even then the event forum is not as active as I might like it to be. Then again I don't post very much, maybe a handful of posts every few months or so -- I mainly come and just see what's happening.

Originally Posted by Maria-Minamino

There is a Menewsha user guild on gaia that was started during the last blackout of mene...someone made it and posted the link k.on the mene facebook page. :)

DID SOMEONE SAY MENEWSHA GAIA GUILD?

You're welcome.