@Komitadjie: And of course, the reason it is a pointless gesture is because most people wont participate. Sort of a vicious cycle really. People don't participate because they don't think it'll work, it doesn't work because not enough people participated, then next time, people think it won't work... yeah.

Mind you, I'm not arguing for this particular strike. I'm just speaking in general.

Except that nobody will take you seriously, no matter how you work it.

If there was a rally of some sort - a focus point for media attention - then I could see it having a ghost of a chance of doing anything.

But obviously hardly anyone knows of this particular "National Shirk Responsibilities For People Who Kinda Think War is Dumb Day".

Something like this takes a great deal of forethought and planning beforehand. You need a ton of word of mouth at the very least and media interest would be better. Then people know that if they want to make a statement, they do something to show it.

And more than just "don't go to school/work" - you need a gathering point. So people can see how many people in their community support this walk-off. See it for themselves. Show the world (via the media).

Do something so visual, so spectacular that it is not just, "haha. I skipped out on my responsibilities" you have made a statement.

Why skip out on responsibilities, anyway? What does that prove? Nothing other than that you're willing to fall through on your responsibilities. You're willing to let your co-workers/employers down by not showing up when scheduled to work - inconveniencing everyone necessary to pull them out of their off-day, or take time away from actually working to call these people who are filling in YOUR SHOES. Or if you're skipping class - what are you doing other than making your teacher have to schedule assignments - taking time out of his or her busy life/schedule to grade a make-up assignment or test that you skipped?

You aren't doing anything constructive and postive. You're doing something irresponsible and negative. You are making the world an unhappier place.

Do it on a weekend or holiday when more people who have responsibilities they're not willing to break can be there. And you can hold a sit-down-candle-lit vigil to honor and respect the fallen innocent.

THAT I could get behind. THAT I could support. THAT might actually gain enough support to make a difference.

Why should they cover something that's shoddily done and doesn't make for a great photo-op? The media is a business.

I know. I'm a public relations major. I've taken a ton of classes taught by journalists of all walks. I'm actually really good - according to my teachers/grades - at news reporting.

If you hold a walk-off with no visual focal point, what's to cover?

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. There needs to be a visual statement to go along with such events, or the whole point is lost.

As for responsibility, I have to bring in the question of morality. For me, this sort of event become a question of which is more important, my day-to-day obligations, or my moral principles which object to war? If I feel that my moral principles will be best served by participating in such an event, I will. If not, my daily obligations will come first and I will pursue my morals in a different way.

Like I said before, the ideal here is that enough support will come in to shut down the system to some degree. If those in power are suddenly face with a stalled country, they will be forced to take action. They could either forcibly shove everyone back in line (my cynical side says that this is more likely somehow), or actually listen to us for once (sigh, wouldn't it be nice?). I agree, however, that there are other ways to go about this. It's just that few of them seem to work.

(Just a note, I'm a strong supporter of intelligent civil disobedience.)

I still say the best way to go is to do something more constructive with your time.

I really don't think there are many people anywhere who are sitting around going, "You know, I am so glad this war is going on. I hope we keep going at this world, causing loss, suffering and destruction. BANG BANG!" (As someone might put it.)

People would love it if there was nothing to fight about. Any politician who wouldn't vote to pull out of Iraq if there was any sort of stability there is insane and needs to be taken out of office immediately.

But there is no stability in Iraq.

Why? Well. I don't really know why because I haven't really been following it because I'm sick of it.

Find out why there is still a 'reason' for troops to be in Iraq. Now that you know the reason, what can you do to stop it from being a reason to be there?

Probably nothing. Unless you're willing to go over to Iraq (or financially or supplies-wise support the people who are willing to do so) and lend a hand giving some sort of support and stability to the region.

Do you want to bring civil rights to the Iraqi citizens? Or protect them from being shot by radical factions? Or bring water to far-flung villages? Or protect school teachers and children on their way to school....

...

Oh. I think... I think the military is doing some of that, aren't they? Yeah.... I'm pretty sure those are the things they are doing as well as "fighting that evil war".

The military isn't all, "Fling bullets at people", you know.

And until the Iraqis can stand on their own two feet, many American politicans aren't ready to pull out of Iraq and let another dictator take over and cause more problems in two or three years.

The situation in Iraq is convoluted, confusing, and definitely not something I presume to understand.

Part of me feels like we had no right to go in the first place. But also, part of me also feels like it is our duty to help suffering people wherever they may be, and I'm deeply disappointed that we didn't intervene in Rwanda. Then I question whether force is the appropriate way to deal with the situation, but if not with force, how else, but, but, but.

My mind goes round and round in circles over the issue. Until I do some research, or otherwise try to understand what's going on, I really just need to keep my mouth shut.

I'm all for rallies and protests and other more directly practical means of standing up for morality, but until I know what my morality actually is... well, Im going to keep going to school.

XD; Sorry if I sound rabid about this. This is probably the first time I have honestly spoken my feelings about this issue, and as a member of the extended military family, I have to see this from the point of view of a certain portion of that community.

I wish I understood more about the war and what is keeping our troops there and how to make it so that they could leave as soon as possible that caused the most good for the world.

But I don't understand. As you said, the whole mess is convolted and tied up in so many different intersecting ways that this is why there is no easy-fix solution.

I'm all for peaceful, non-violent protest.

If people were still shouting, "Kill anything in a turban! YEAH." - a peaceful anti-war, walk-off protest would be something I could get behind. I'd help spread the word about it. I'd participate if it didn't mean me neglecting something pressing. (Say - a family member in the hospital, or whatever.)

But that's not the issue anymore. The issue isn't the crazy, knee-jerk reaction it was in the year or two after 9/11. It's that if we leave, we could have a more horrible situation on our hands only a few years down the road. More people suffering. Radicals doing horrible things to their own countrymen because they believe their beliefs are better than other beliefs.

If the solution were to get politicians to see that no one wants our troops in Iraq any longer - all those other peaceful protests that have been done would have already accomplished this goal.

I don't know what the solution is. I wish I did. But I don't think saying, "I don't support the war, therefore I will put a hiccup into my local economy and disrupt the lives of others in my community." is the answer. ;p

I'll probably shut myself up after this. I really don't want to make people think that I hold any negative views on them for their opinions shared in this thread.

...Though I still think the poll is beyond the pale and a slap in the face to anyone who does not support the war but also does not think walking away from a day's responsibilities will help anyone.

That okay CK. I know I've let myself get totally irate over some things, so I understand how some topics just push buttons sometimes.

Besides, you brought up a lot of good points, which I wouldn't have thought of, and which challenged me to more clearly think through what I was saying. ^__^

Awesome. :3

I think that's what (good) debate is meant to do, really. To get you to think about your position, clarify it, and shore up the weak areas. And hopefully make your ultimate point (peace, in this case) clear to everyone - including yourself.

Much respect. <3

My parents would have killed me if I stayed home. Yeah, I need some other way to protest =p

Write a letter to your state representitive, Sirec. You'd be surprised, I've actually recieved personal responses to those on a number of occasions. Certainly, that will get more attention from at least one influential figure than just ditching your classes for a day.

As a side note, you could probably use that as some kind of project in school, or at least impress your parents with it. :)

I hadn't heard anything about this. There was something like this back in October called Shut it Down, but I haven't heard about anything scheduled for this month. Are you sure it's supposed to be tomorrow?

Interestingly enough, I live in a college town, where something like that should be extremely noticeable, and I saw nothing in October. To be frank, people have responsibilities that they must attend, and not attending them will not help the troops at all.