Last night we were pondering why Alice in Wonderland is drawn in a macabre way so often. I have wondered this before. If I remember correctly, it might have something to do with a manga? Is that origin of how it happened? But even if that's true, why Alice? You never see Snow White, Rose Red, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty or any other fairytale girls running around with a bloody knife and murder in their eye.

Someone suggested that perhaps it was because Alice is a dark character in the book. I have read the book and I didn't really think so. She is just an ordinary little girl and the book is a morality tale the way all fairy tales are. It is simply written in the style of the period. But many other fairytales were written at the same time in the same way.

So here are your spoons for discussion:

Do you like the normal Alice, or the dark disturbing version better?

Why is Alice the only one turned into something darker and scarier than her original intent?

Why is Alice so appealing in the first place? (I have to admit I have always been pretty fond of her myself.)

If you were going to turn fairytale characters dark, which ones would they be and why? (I would choose Snow White and Rose Red, those girls just lend themselves to being dark and creepy by virtue of their very names.)

From my belief, if originated from a video game based off Alice In Wonderland. Except everything was a lot darker and twisted.

I like Alice in her innocent, magical form better. It's a children's story and there should be no intent to make it scary...it's something to read to a child for the smiles and wonders, not the hate and the evil.

I have no idea why Alice is basically the only one turned into a weird, scary version...it's really disturbing actually to make such an innocent girl like that. It's murder to the original.

I think Alice in Wonderland was appealing because this idea had never been used before and left untouched. For the magic in it and the style.

I agree, Snow white. White is a color of mourning, and truthfully, the dwarfs scare me a lot. They're grumpy and all...well...Grumpy is Grumpy.

Oooh thanks Moon, see I didn't know for sure.

Cloud I agree with you, I like her sweet. I am not much for the dark side of things. (Hey we are twins!)

One of my friends said to me long time ago that the real storie of Alice isnt so sweet at all...but anyway i prefer the dark storie ;) but with a sweet and innocent Alice XD If i turn one of a fairytale character to dark...hmmm... i think that it will be Snow White (i hate her name...) i already read a story of her when she's a dark woman and she is good in that role!^^

I think it originated from a children's story, but I personally like the dark and disturbing one better. I think part of the reason why they focused so much on the darkness of the story is because of all the immoral, crazy things going on in the story.
The caterpillar that she talked to was smoking opium. That doesn't sound like a children's story. The cheshire cat, he was just creepy. I thought he was awesome, but he was basically alice's stalker. Mad Hatter, he was just mean and evil.
I think they used alice in wonderland as an evil story because it was so detailed. There were so many parts of the wonderland and several characters to choose from.
If I was going to change one of those stories into an evil one, I would probably choose red riding hood, because it could easily be turned evil.

That makes sense Slickie! I hadn't thought about it that way. Of course when it was written many of those things weren't considered taboo like they are now. But I can see why in our present day we could easily consider it very immoral. I like that, it made me think! :D

@Blondheart: Yup...I guess we are! But I don't have anything -Laughs- So I must post away!!!

Do you like the normal Alice, or the dark disturbing version better?

Dark, shes more interesting that way and way more ey catching.


Why is Alice the only one turned into something darker and scarier than her original intent?

Because look at what she goes through compared to the others, If I went through that, I'd be twisted too. Plus the other really couldn't be dark due to their story lines, well not as extreme as Alice.


Why is Alice so appealing in the first place?

She blond and looks "oh so innocent", you would never expect for her to be something other than what she appears to be.


If you were going to turn fairytale characters dark, which ones would they be?

Cinderella, Red riding hood, snow white, theres a few more but I'm sure if the fall under Fairytale :D

Well some of those girls have to go through some pretty rough stuff. They were going to let a guy with an ax kill Snow White and to stay alive she had to shack up with 7 dwarves. o.O Sleeping Beauty was drugged and put into a coma and had to rely on a guy she never even met. Cinderella was forced into slavery. So they all kinda have some sort of turmoil going on. Even Tinkerbell almost dies at one point.

Edit: I need to go run some errands, but I will be back later to continue the discussion. Carry on! :D

My guess would be, that the story's a little.... out there. It such a twisted reality, it wasn't at all hard to add a dark element to it, especially since the chesire cat did say 'Everyobody's mad" and the Queen of hearts has a fetish for beheading things.
x' D

Why not turn Alice, if she'd stayed in that dream any longer, I do believe she herself would have gone mad.

Why is Alice the only one turned into something darker and scarier than her original intent?

Oho, you have NOT seen any of Endling's Everafter characters on Deviant Art, have you? She's one the only few that haven't even been included...

Do you like the normal Alice, or the dark disturbing version better?

Even though I have never seen the dark version of Alice and I probably wouldn't be one to judge, I like the more innocent, happy version of her better.

Why is Alice so appealing in the first place?

I dunno...She was able to put up with Wonderland for like, the whole movie/book. And that ever-so-cryptic Cheshire Cat.

Why is Alice the only one turned into something darker and scarier than her original intent?

Perhaps it is because no one would suspect her to suddenly become so terrifying, so people wanted to lure the unsuspecting in and shock them. Or the probably just "did it for the lulz" =P

If you were going to turn fairytale characters dark, which ones would they be?

Hm...I dunno, maybe a character that's not very well known...

Actually, the happy fairy tales are rewritten stories. All the storied started out pretty dark. Hans Christian Anderson, The Grimm Brothers wrote most of the children's stories we read today. Only they weren't the happy shiny ones we know. Alice in wonderland was not written by them, it was written by Lewis Carrol and was called Alice's Adventures Under Ground.

As far as being considered dark...you ever read the part about the Jabberwocky??

According to my own analysis and that of professors and teachers that I have studied under, the book actually originated because Carroll wrote it for a girl he knew in real life. It symbolizes her going through puberty to reach adulthood. All the stuff Alice goes through in the book just shows how she lost her path because things can get a little crazy from time to time - but in the end - she is smart and outwits the queen and effectivly beats the hardships. In the book, in the beginning, she doesn't even know who she is. She's lost her sense of "self." That helps symbolize a girls confusion going through puberty. During puberty you change and in adulthood you aren't the same person you were in childhood. Alice was losing her sense of self due to this.

It's portrayed in a twisted manner because it's so "acid Trip" (as my roommate just called it). Many people speculate whether or not he wrote it under the influence of some substance or other. It's rumored he was a bit crazy at times. But the book is pretty crazy - I mean - flamigo croque with hedgehogs and a disappearing cat, a baby turned into a pig, lobsters, etc. It's so crazy. and all that symbolizes her overcoming all the problems in her life.

It's portrayed darkly because there is that craziness that isn't present in "fairytales." Cinderalla and Snow White are princess-happily-ever-after stories. Alice in wonderland isn't about a princess meeting a prince and living happily ever after. She wakes up from her dream to go inside to do her chores and studies.

If you notice through the book she often gets saying confused and words mixed up. That can be shown as a smaller rebellion against schooling methods. Education used to be "memorization, cram, memorize everything possible to get smarter." They would drill the information in their heads. The method is, obviously, not working for Alice as she is getting everything mixed up and can't remember anything.

The book was to subtly challenge the education of the time period and also help a girl through a rough period of time in her life.

I don't really know if Alice has been more dark in other Genres than most other fairytale characters. But I guess that's because I've read and seen a lot of different fairytales gone macabre. Though honestly most stories were already macabre in the first place (Grimms).

I think Red Riding Hood has actually been used in darker senses, since they're have been stories about [email protected] and her doing the killing.

There have been some pretty dark Snow White stories. Like one by Neil Gaiman. That story should not be read by those under 16.

And Endling, writer of Everafter on Snafu, has done a good job at portraying a lot of Fairytales darkly.

But I could see how most people could find a dark outlet with Alice. Mostly because she is 'innocent', and when read the way it should be, it's a classic story. But the story itself could be seen as not just a child's imagination, but as insanity. And when viewed that way, it's easier to make Alice evil.

But those are just my thoughts. Feel free to ignore them, I just like fairytales far too much.

Do you like the normal Alice, or the dark disturbing version better?
I read the original story and I loved it! ^_^

Why is Alice the only one turned into something darker and scarier than her original intent?
Because, maybe of the mystery behind the bok and the author. I did some research and it turns out that Alice was a real person... and there might have been some "sexual abuse" between the small girl and the author. Also, the author was going insane from drug abuse, some say. But the only proof of these things were destroyed by his family after his death.


Why is Alice so appealing in the first place? (I have to admit I have always been pretty fond of her myself.)

I'm not sure.

i'm thinking it's from the computer game (american mcgee's alice in wonderland or something like that). basecly, Alice was sent to an orphanage after her parents died in a fire and her life is hell. then, she goes back to wonderland and.. it isn't exactly wonderland. everyone's killing others and stuff and it's REALLY bloody. you also get a knife and have to kill people and stuff. i own it, but i'm kind of afraid to play it. o_o

Oh so many replies! :D I gotta go read it and catch up!

I like the darker more "disturbed" version.

I've always loved Alice in Wonderland and horror movies and such, so blend two of my favorite things together, and tada! ^^

I'm not really sure what drew me to Alice in Wonderland in the first place, but many of the usernames I have on sites are Alice based.

On roliana my mule is named Alice Malice, my main e-mail account is "[email protected]"

Yeah, I'm a loser. <3

I see Charity, come to think of it I remember the name McGee or whatever it is in conjunction with Alice. *nods*

Maria, I actually have a book called "The Other Alice" and it's about Lewis Carrol and the real Alice and her family.

Alice in Wonderland held a massive amount of (what I consider fantastic) twisted, nonsensical confusion. It lends itself very easily to further twisting and turning, and a lot of the characters were explicitly dangerous, selfish, or brutish (not that there wasn't plenty of helpfulness or sheer basic amusement to be found if you looked.) Alice as a whole comes off as much more otherworldly than, say, a young girl going to visit grandma and having to deal with one mean wolf along the way. Since this is pretty much all the current media sanctions for Red Riding Hood, Alice seems a much more easy pick for those looking to work a gothic or twisted story.

I must admit, I'm not necessarily all that pleased with the results. Not only do the originally frightening, often explicitly violent original scripts behind the other tales (vore, cannibalism, and violation, anyone?) get lost, but Alice has gotten practically a reputation as an easy use for frightening or 'wrong' material.

I am not against the macabre or the frightening, but Alice was a pure work of art partially, in my opinion, because it did NOT rely on the violence and darkness slathered on in buckets. It wasn't going for a sense of OH MY GOD DARKNESS AND EVIL EVERYWHERE BLOOD AUGH; it was going for a sense of unsettlement, confusion, and craziness, which manifests itself in infinitely more colorful ways than cheap tentacles and knives. Alice, with its simultaneously scary, amiable, strange and helpful inhabitants, treaded a lovely fine line between the insanity of adulthood and the innocence of childhood. I find it a much more subtle, pleasant taste in its original form.

Not that I'm against American McGee's rendition, or others thereof! o: I just personally appreciate the original much more.

I think Alice in Wonderland is different because the hero of the tale is a little girl. There is no knight in shining armour that comes to save her. Perhaps in that way, it harks more at real life where things don't always sort themselves out, you have to do it yourself.

I'm not sure why people feel the need to twist it into a more macabre story. Perhaps with the strange goings on in it, it is easier to do so. A lot of the characters in the story are a bit sinister. The doped up catapillar, the angry cook, the murderous queen. Maybe the horror genre plays on this to twist it about.

I've love the books since I can remember and they will always have a special place in my heart. I might enjoy the more sinister versions (be it a book or the game) but I'll always think the originals are the best.

I didn't think much of the Disney cartoon. >.>

I was just googling the McGee version and I just read that they are making into a movie with Sarah Michelle Gellar. I guess it's supposed to be out later this year.

Originally Posted by Blondheart

I was just googling the McGee version and I just read that they are making into a movie with Sarah Michelle Gellar. I guess it's supposed to be out later this year.

Might give it a look. But I know I'll be thinking to myself "Why is Buffy sitting down to tea with that guy in the hat?" D=

lol Beff XD