The_Good_Kid: With society's attitude the way it is currently, I do not think that your request is unreasonable.

However, I would still like to see societal attitude to eventually change to make behavior like that okay. But for now, sure.

I breast fed both my boys in public, no one said a word to me about it. Then again I covered myself up. Recently in the news, I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet or not, a woman was thrown of a Delta airline for breastfeeding. She is filing a law suit against the company.
It doesn't bother me to see women feeding their babies, they have to eat. The whole "go to to the bathroom defense" is ignorant and stupid. Society has created plenty of products to cover the mother properly and as long as she is covered with the leave it to the imagination look then she should be left alone. :cool:

Breastfeeding is a completely natural thing. I mean, yes, as way said somewhere earlier, so is urinating and the like, but a woman shouldn't have to make a decision as to whether or not her child goes hungry because some people may lack manners or have an inability to focus elsewhere. Seriously! All a breast really is is a bunch of fat! That's why when women start to lose weight, their breast size decreases.
A child cannot help when they are hungry, just like we adults really cannot choose when we are hungry. I'm certainly not going to deprive my child because someone else is uncomfortable with the bonding/feeding process. I wouldn't disturb another woman doing it, I wouldn't want to be disturbed either.
After all, breasts were originally intended to feed our offspring, not to be sexual.

When we were at the mall, I would go into a dressing room. Every store I went too had a great staff who would allow me into a handicap room.

:gonk::cry:

the bathroom talk! there full of germs!

lol

your right, Toys R us does.. =3

Your job does :D

But, why is everyone thinking that we want these women to sit in some bathroom for? That's not really what I want, so let me refrain from using "we" because I am not speaking for numerous people. I just want them away from a crowded place.

First of all, I did explain it when she asked. Go back and read my post. I spelled it out step-by-step.

Second, a person should be able to interpret an analogy for themselves. If I have to explain it the first time around, why bother using an analogy. I use an analogy to make a pictorial representation of what I want to say, so that it will have a bigger impact. I use an analogy specifically in this situation because not everyone has taken care of a child, so making an analogy that uses a more common situation helps more people understand my point.

That is the very nature of an analogy and why they don't waste time explaining the analogy unless the other person doesn't understand. Once she said she didn't understand, which I suspect she was only asking because she was hoping I wouldn't be able to understand it and use that against me not because she really didn't understand, I did explain it very clearly.

This is a debate. Using an analogy is a perfectly acceptable tool in a debate. If you can't understand that, you shouldn't be participating in an intelligent debate. I really don't want to talk about this anymore because I feel like this is a cheap shot from a person who has nothing better to prove their point then trying to make the other person look like an idiot.

If you really have some legitimate proof for your point, please use that. I will respect you so much more and pay much more heed to your arguments. I thought everyone in this debate had good legitimate points to debate until you stooped to attacking myself and others for using analogies. So please, let's move on.

I have taken care of a baby, several times. The mom will always tell me: "the baby will be hungry around such and such a time, the baby will want to take a nap around such and such a time, the baby will probably need their diaper changed at such and such a time." I acknowledge that it is not completely set in stone, but if you feed your baby just before you go out, you will have a fairly clear window as to when you will have to feed them again. This time will vary based on the age of the child. For newborns it can be as close as every 15 minutes or as many as a few hours.


I have not been pregnant, but I have sure has scratches on my breast that I can't get rid of by scratching through my shirt.

Yeah, they may buy cheaper diapers or cloth diapers, but they will still buy diapers. Not all baby formula is super expensive. And, when a baby gets old enough to eat other food, the mom will still buy food, even if it is not the most expensive food.

Not really. You bring out a portable diaper pad, make sure the baby stays on it. Don't touch the food or table after you're done until you have wiped your hands. Put the diaper straight in a bag without touching anything. It can be done in public without being a health risk, but it would still be considered wrong.

Well, in this culture that includes the breast. We are talking about our culture, not the native americans or incans or africans. We are talking about American (all Americas), Canadian, and European culture because in the places that don't think of the breast as a private part don't have this problem. The point is, we do.


So the owner can ask a mother who is breastfeeding to leave, right? That is their choice, but you are arguing that they shouldn't have that right. Why? Because you believe they should be subjugated to the comfort of others. However, most business will do what is more comfortable for the majority of their customers. The majority of their customers would not be breastfeeding mothers. So, by your argument, breastfeeding should not be allowed in restaurants.

The mother has to stay somewhere while she is in San Francisco. Also, it really isn't healthy for young babies to travel long distances anyway because of reasons exactly like this and others.

If you are a mom, you should know that that child is your responsibility. You do not have the right to expect strangers to take care of your child. You do not walk up to random strangers and ask them to change your babies diaper for you because it would be more comfortable for you to be able to rest.

And for the LAST time, I am not against breastfeeding in public as long as the mother takes responsibility for her child and goes somewhere more secluded and tries to cover up.

Seriously, wtf. I never said you couldn't use an analogy, I just said that if you're going to use one you have to explain it (if you can't explain it and no one understands it then it's not an effective argument now is it?). Also, I'm sorry that I missed your explanation--I saw a lot of posts asking you to explain yourself and a lot of posts from you refusing to do so. Seriously though, I think you need to slow down because you're stuffing a lot of words in my mouth.

WHAT POINT? I asked you a question!

That was my point, why are you still being so combative? I mean, should moms just stay home because their child has to feed every 15 minutes? Your logic is supporting my argument.

So you have to expose your nipple to the air to scratch it? No, you can still scratch under your shirt without exposing yourself. Pretty hard to do with a whole baby. Just sayin'.

That's like saying, "Oh, if you can afford a Geo Metro, then you obviously can afford a Ferrari, because they're related." Wrong. Just because a mom can afford cloth diapers doesn't mean she can afford formula too. And breast milk is FREE. Breast pumps and formula are NOT. So, tell me, which is more fiscally achievable?

Then please, explain to me why it is considered wrong if it's not for health or exposure of genitalia (which exposing a breast is neither).

I know! I'm asking you why it is so wrong to try to change it to not be that way, and you still haven't answered me. I know what the status quo is. So please, answer my question, why don't we change our social stigma to make it acceptable to breastfeed in public?

Restaurants, again, aren't public. We're discussing breastfeeding in public. It's the name of the topic for heaven's sake.

Additionally, I said that restaurants also cannot make rules that conflict with laws. If the law says that women cannot be restricted to certain areas to breastfeed, then the restaurant cannot require that either.

Others? Enlighten me.

I missed the relevance of this comment, could you elaborate how that had anything to do with the topic at hand?

If you force her to go somewhere secluded, that is not public. All you've said is, "oh sure she can breastfeed in public, and by public I mean private."

A child does not eat from a pump. A pump is something a mother puts on her breast to get milk from it.
http://www.breast-pumps.com/medela2.jpg

They are painful for many, if not most women, and some women can simply not use them because of it or other complications. It is unfathomably inconsiderate and rude of you to say that these women who simply cannot use a pump but want to breastfeed their children are bad mothers.

We should be considerate to everyone - including new mothers. To call them bad mothers because they would like to feed their child and cannot do it in a way which is catered to your needs (which can be solved by turning your head, btw) is much further from considerate than your average breastfeeding mother. So please, Pot, how do you like to talk to Kettle?

If I am in a store and I need to buy tampons, and I go to a male clerk, it will make him uncomfortable. If I am in an interracial or gay couple and I hold hands with my significant other down the street, I will make someone uncomfortable. A Christian talking about the Bible will make me uncomfortable.
Are these things wrong? Should they be banished from society, even though it will hurt many people, because a few intolerant or prudish people are made intolerant by these actions? I should think not.

Honey, I understand what an analogy is. An analogy is perfectly acceptable tool of debate, you're right. But only when they make sense. Do you got that? Your analogies cannot be off the wall. It's bad debate skills to not explain yourself clearly.

I politely asked you to explain your analogies. Whether or not I understood what I think you meant is irrelevant, because I asked for clarification. If you do not respond to the point in a debate, it's considered conceding. Now, unless you can clarify your analogies in the grown up way, I will take it that you concede and do not understand your own analogies.

My mouth just dropped so far open that I don't think I can reach that far to close it again-I'm going to refrain from making a personal attack. I'll just say that I think that ignorant children and people that haven't had a child should probably refrain from making such judgments about a parent. I'm just absolutely flabbergasted at the above comment.

Now-beyond my obvious shock at the above comment, how about I tell you to go back into the thread and read one of my responses that address both pumping and bottle feeding a breastfed baby. No? Can't do that? Ok, I'll make it brief and re-state what I already stated. Pumping does NOT work for all women. Even when it does work, it can be a very different experience for each woman-some women have an over abundance while others can get virtually nothing from the pump. Now, as to bottle feeding a breastfed baby: that doesn't work for all either. Some babies REFUSE to drink from anything but mommy, while for others, bottle feeding can cause nipple confusion, which could lead to the baby refusing to nurse from mom (breastfeeding is much harder work for babies, so it's easy to understand how this would happen, they may want what's easier). That's putting it briefly.
Thank you for addressing some of the concerns. As I stated most of my points earlier in the thread, I was trying hard not to have to re-state them. Unfortunately, I was forced to come back and do it anyway with this particular poster's most #@$* comment. You're doing a great job of stating many of the facts that have been forgotten-keep speaking for me, so I don't have to :)!
~~~~cringes at the "honey" remark~~~~~~I understand you're upset, so am I, but that one always get me, even when it's not directed at me. ANY way :)-not answering does NOT mean you are conceding a point to someone else. I'm not conceding anything on another thread I'm in at the moment by not responding in that thread anymore. I am simply not up for the argument any further for several different personal reasons, therefore have simply dropped out of it until I can fully re-join and put myself into it. Religion and abortion-UGH-my blood can boil.

( so I'm guessing that you're a parent then xD )
Calling them ignorant is just as bad. They may be not see things the same way as you, and I doubt many of them are going to change their minds when they DO have kids, but that doesn't make them ignorant.
Whether you choose you believe me or not, I asked my mother. She said that "those same ignorant children should not have to see that". And that's a mother of five for you.


I've never even heard of this, save for babies that were breastfed first. For those that are allergic to rubber, then it's different. Some babies just refuse certain types of nipples.

She meant formula, but it definitely isn't your fault for misunderstanding.


Also, I just wanted to point out that women don't have to pay for formula. WIC.
Two, breastfeeding can actually be painful as well.

Double S:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/howtoapp...guidelines.htm

If my fiance and I had a child, and we collectively made $28,000/yr before my child was born, formula would not be something I would call "affordable," and at the same time I wouldn't qualify for WIC, and therefore, no free formula for me. (I'd also like to add that when he gets out of school he'll have over $80,000 in debt, so $28,000 a year would be beyond devastating to us regardless of whether or not we had a child--and student loans can't be canceled except in extreme circumstances, like if he dies, so bankruptcy wouldn't help either).

But then, I'd probably breastfeed either way.

Also, breastfeeding can be painful, but it is rare for lactation not to be (even in cows and goats! and other mammals I guess)

Well, you may think I am an igorant child, but I am not. Just because I personally have not had a child, doesn't mean anything.

My older sisters both had babies. Double S and I practically helped raised some of them. Now, my sisters are not the most financially stable but they managed to get formula without any problem. Even one of them has a pump!

My comment comes from people I know who have had kids and breastfed. Not from me. There is absolutely no reason for a mother to go out unprepared to feed her child.

@Kris - I misworded my post. I know what a pump is. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

Go read my first post. I already said I "look away". But I shouldn't have to - that is what I am arguing about.

And that whole Pot & Kettle routine is getting really annoying and just childish. This is not place for insults. Keep your opinions of me out of this and keep them on the matter I hand. I hold in my judgement of you.

I know that it hurts cows, and animals that produce milk. :) I love cows xD;

It only hurts if you choose to breastfeed in the first place.

This is just my opinion, not directed at Keyori or anyone else for that matter, but if someone isn't making a good income, I don't think they should not have a baby in the first place. Again, that is how I feel, so I really don't care for an arguement on it. C:

For you to claim we need to be considerate to everyone and then, in the same post, say one of the most inconsiderate things stated on this thread is hypocritical In fact, it is the very definition of the word. For me to point out an inconsistency in your opinions is not flaming. Albeit, I did it in a rude manner, but you aren't exactly being polite to the women we are discussing, are you?

If we are discussing whether or not the mother can afford formula, it's a bit too late to tell her she shouldn't have had a kid. If the problem is there, we need to deal with it, not think it shouldn't have had happened.

Oh I agree with you, but you know just as well as I do that there are some people who will have a baby if they're pregnant, even if they don't really want to (see abortion thread :roll:)

I was just trying to offer an example. In ALL realism, I wouldn't have the kid (even though my fiance doesn't like the idea of abortion at all, he understands that there are situations where it may be necessary, including poor finances). But yes, you're thinking along the lines I am in that case :)

Haha, then you already know that I agree with you on that point. >___>

@Kris:
I understand that. I just think people should think about things before they get themselves into it.

Yes, but when you have a mother who cannot afford formula and cannot pump, what good will it do to tell her she shouldn't have had a child? The child is there, it needs to be fed, and you will get upset with her if she feeds her child.

I do not speak for Goldenlici, but this is my take on the matter: If the back of the bus is less crowded than the front, she should move back there to breastfeed. C: I really just don't want it in a crowded place.

That, and her sicknesses. My sister's baby got Jaundice from her breastmilk ):