Epiphanies happen at the moment of realization. They can gradually come into effect, but the moment you reach the realization, that is what the epiphany is.

don't just look at it in pieces if you believe in the bible then you believe the whole thing not just pieces of it...you can't just pick and choose. Matthew and Luke were written by two very different people so it's a perspective thing. you look at something and someone else looks at it your not going to get the same thing

Who said we dont question it? What do you think Bible discussions or studies are for? I mean, its been revised so many times, its hard to know. Thats why its called faith.
- Martin Luther King Jr.

PS: Their a few hints of Christs birth in other parts of the Bible, also two people are going to mean two different perspectives...

How the gospels were formed were a little more complicated then that. The authors of gospels were very intelligent and wrote their gospel with a specific audience in mind. For example their is no accounts of possession in St. John's gospel because the author was writing to Hellenistic audience and the idea of possession was not familiar with that culture. I think the authors were not misinformed but rather choose to distort their accounts in the name of poetic license.

Why are atheists so determined to prove Christianity (in general) false? I am not a devout Christian, I do not take the bible literally, I do not believe in EVERYTHING, but I do believe in a God. I make up my own beliefs (in regards to Christianity) which suit my own needs. Religion is what you make it. I truly believe that. Even if people blindly follow a religion devoutly and refuse any other as true, sure that may be ignorance, but that is what they choose. There is nothing wrong with not believing in a God or Deity, but why are you so concerned about all this anyways, then?

I am very open towards different religious beliefs, (even if people do not choose to believe in anything) but Atheists determined to prove God wrong, is no better than Christians trying to convert others. You or any other Atheist may disagree with me, but essentially the only thing someone can get out of an argument such as this is the hope that Christians will "open their eyes".


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I don't think they want to prove Christianity false nearly as much as showing how silly it is to take the bible Literally.

At least, most of the athiests I know are more interested in showing that taking the bible literally is the worst way to be a Christian.

The bible is over a thousand years old... of course there's going to be things that dont make sense... but if u study it you find that the "contradictions" rly arent contradictions

I suppose you're right from what you know about the atheists around you. However, the one's I've met irl and on the internet can't just live their lives. They make it their life's mission to try and prove to christians just how stupid they are for believing in what they do. I have also met a lot of idiots (who claim to be atheist) and go around flaunting a goat-head pentagram just for the sake of trying to offend christians. (I'm not implying that the OP does this, this is just why I view most atheists the way I do for the most part.)

Take a history of the New Testament class. There is nothing wrong with educating yourself on any subject. Just understand the Bible it's self is not wrong.

The Gospels were not written by Mark, Matthew, Luke, or John. They were written by students of those first Christians. So, they are telling them from Oral Tradition.

You have to look at the time they are written in and when Jesus lived. A lot of of the bitterness you gather from writings is not true to the times. The dislike of Religious hierarchy for one thing is not as true as it is written. It's true to when the temple fell, which is around the time of gospels.

When the pope picked the Canon they picked based on certain things. Matthew's Gospel was picked for the Family tree and Christmas star since the man the wrote Revelations wrote about Jesus holding stars, among other reasons. Certain stories are used over and over again in other gospels.

To take a class to see how it fits into history and how the stories and gospels fit together really won't hurt. The classes at college don't preach, they just teach the English and what not part of it.

I've never read my bible and I never will because I know more than 70% of it is falsefied. I do believe there is a god. Even if his or her name is not God. I've named him Val. And his wife Tabitha. And Jesus gets to be Jesus. It's only for when I pray for the safety and happiness of my friends and family. And I'm not blindly faithful either. Would I jump infront of a bullet if I knew absolutely that God would protect me? No. If that person was meant to get shot, they'll get shot.

Though I do have some issue's of my own. If god is Jesus's father and is the holy one... Why is Jesus our lord and savior? Why do 90% of people worship Jesus but not god? Aren't they breaking one of those comandment things by doing that?

Jesus is God. And the Holy Ghost. They're all the same... thing. But different.

Kinda like if you were to name one of your boobs. One of God's boobs is Jesus, the other is the Holy Ghost, and they happen to be detachable and omnipotent. Part of God, but not a whole god on its own, so it's not polytheism.

And as a Christian you're still breastfeeding on Jesus.

I thought it made for a good metaphor.. >~>

I was pretty proud of it :ninja:

You should be ;)

I see the bible as an interpretation of man's faith in God. It can't all coincide, because everyone has a different view and man having created it, it can't be perfect.

I'm also an atheist, but the bible has always interested me. A lot of religious texts are.. well, metaphysical poetry- and back when the bible had first emerged, there was much in it to believe in wholeheartedly, as it explained things we can easily explain now with science for example.

and there's always those who don't see because they don't want to.

We are taught to read the Bible ' Between the lines' Not taking everything literally or for fact. All the stories have a morale that is supposed to act a guideline on how to live our lives.

That being said, I am a Catholic but I'm not going to stand here and shove everything down your throat. It's your choice whether you believe it or not. Everyone has different beliefs and values why single out a certain group. People are always going to disagree with something. Even if they were all fact, somewhere someone is going to open their mouth about how stupid or untrue it is. There are people that DENY the holocaust. Like really?

Christians are just a group of people who look to the same God ; Messiah for guidance and love. The bible is a way we're taught and used as a guideline to better living. Not saying I agree with is completely but the way I was taught and grew up is to NOT take the bible literally and NOT focus on the facts of the place and exact time. It's the story and moral it teaches us setting a better example.

We believe in something because we don't want to believe in nothing. maybe.

Is it taken as a mere guideline now because taking it literally becomes more and more irrational as the years pass? How do you take the more hostile/sexist verses of the bible as a moral guideline? i.e: 1 Timothy 2:12