I thought that was self explanatory, they are the all-powerful omniscient being and they are bringing more red herrings to make their existence less viable.
[whispers] I think the All-Powerful being wants to get out of the human spotlight. It is probably ashamed of what it has created [/whispers] ;)

I think science is a wonderful thing. It helps me discover what is truth and what is parable in bible and I'm more than happy to listen what scientists have to say.

Truth or parable however, the morals of the story stay true and it's these morals that I like to base my life on. Mind you, I'm not perfect and I don't always make the right decisions or give the right advice. I find that a common misconception about Christians. People seem to believe we're all "holier than thou". We aren't, we're just people who are trying to live better by learning from the lessons of the past.

What if science disproved the whole bible? Would you still choose to base your life on it?

It seems that Christians are having a hard time following the morals of a series of writings that were written thousands of years ago because the lessons are out of date. Like opting for a first-edition physics textbook that's recently released it's 10th edition and going to class with it.

If there was concrete proof that the bible was wrong and that God did not exist, then yes, I would believe it. I'm not so blind as to think all concrete evidence could be wrong while I'm right. I don't think I'm unreasonable.

As for the teachings of the bible, the parables are broad enough to last the ages. They are simple and not meant to be over analyzed but taken as they are, so even a child could understand. After all these years it still applies to our everyday life. I'm sorry if you don't feel the same way, however I will only accept your argument if you have actually read much of the Bible. I'm not trying to be narrow minded here but it's very difficult to have this argument with someone who's never read more than a page or two, if any at all.

I'm very familiar with the bible, as I was raised as a catholic and am still surrounded by religious people on a daily basis. It's always seemed to me that Christians are the most hypocritical when it comes to their faith. I've been around the world and seen Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Muslims - you name it, I've been around them - and they live and breathe what is preached in their holy texts - why are most of the Christians I meet so different, especially the ones in western countries? I think the answers may be obvious, but I'm never too sure.

The lessons I've gathered from the bible seem common sense to me, though. They're that simple. I suppose I'm really asking why it is needed for people to lead better lives when they could rather easily figure it out themselves. Is it because people feel they need a leader? A scapegoat just in case it all goes wrong?

I find a lot of people who label themselves as Christians don't really realize what that means. Many of us simply accept this religion because it's what our parents taught us as truth. So then they go out and just do what they like with their lives and if someone asks they just default to what they've been told. Eventually these people will realize what they're doing and either take the easy route and just drop the whole thing, or they will challenge it with an open mind and avidly search for the truth.

I happen to be the latter. In fact I am still challenging many things about Christianity. I still label myself as one of them because the meaning of the word Christian is to be Christ-like. I believe that the Jesus portrayed in the Bible is a being that we should all admire for his morals, virtue, kindness and love and that people should follow such an example to be like that. It's a struggle that's to be sure and I do have my moments against it. The point is I'm trying and many other people are as well but no one is that perfect.

Something I have learned about common sense, is that it isn't so common. A lot of people need constant reminding, perhaps not you and I so much, you do seem rather intelligent to me after all, however the world is filled with... intelligence challenged people. ^_^

Christians aren't looking for a scapegoat. It's comforting to know that despite the challenges of life there is someone always there whom we can talk to. It may sound silly but I find myself just starting up conversations sometimes. Even if there isn't anyone to verbally answer me it helps to feel like someone's listening; someone who isn't going to go spreading it around. Sometimes it helps me work out problems to, it's like the solution just suddenly comes to me when I explain things out loud. It's strange, and you could argue either that it's God giving me the answers or that it's just the way my mind works but of course I like the thought of having someone there, just nudging me along the way.

I will admit that sometimes I wish I had someone to help nudge me along the way, or someone to talk to like that - but it would require me to have a faith that I simply do not have.

As for accepting things because of what our parents have told us, I know exactly how this is. I remember as a child, praying to god and truly believing that he was listening and answering my prayers. It's a strange thing to think about now, but my heart was completely there. I fully believe now that if my family had followed every aspect of Christianity (Catholicism) and displayed a strong sense of faith around me, I would still be a Catholic today.

For some people, I believe religion is merely a habit passed down from generation to generation. It's a habit you attend on Sunday and forget about for the rest of the week. Seeing this caused me to question everything, and now I am an atheist - but not out of spite. Perhaps at first, but through that initial break from religion I found answers that truly resonated with me.

I hope you find answers that resonate with you, too.

I'm glad that you have found some of the answers you were looking for and I hope I helped explain a few things for you. Naturally I wish you'd come back and be Christian but that's not my choice. :P I'm not in the business of telling people what to do, all I want is to answer questions should people have them. I absolutely hate it when people get pushy about their own beliefs so I try not to do that to others. Did I succeed this time? I really was trying.

If you would like someone to be able to talk to anytime then you could just find some thing to talk to. Sometimes I just need something to look at when I'm chatting to God (or myself if you prefer) so I look up at the sky. Quite often it's at night and I can find the constellation Orion, so I just talk to Orion. It's a strange method I guess but Orion is sort of my pet name for God now, XD.

x.x I'm so weird.
It works though, so if you're feeling as strange a human being as I am (if you're even human at all o.o lol) then you could always just give that a shot. It's kind of like having an imaginary friend ^_^

You talk to Orion - that's so cute XD.

You weren't pushy at all. I've met pushy before, and they got so angry with me they put their hands on my head and prayed over me -_- I wasn't impressed.

It's hard to find answers when people get too defensive. I suppose it is a touchy subject for some, but on both sides I think there is fear of being put down or maybe even finding a little personal truth (save a small few).

Maybe I will talk to the stars sometime. I can see them, they're always there and they've been around much longer than I have ; )

@ Kollusim: I actually had a little wrestling with my faith over the fact that you have people who go to church on Sunday but then go out partyin' Monday night.

It's just, I couldn't get how people could proclaim their love of God and then be petty and disrespectful of not just themselves but others. I couldn't get how this one girl proclaimed that she knew she had sinned to my entire Biology class - but we all knew that she'd probably do it again. Such hypocrisy angered and stunned me.

What I eventually figured out was that people can pay lip service to God in Church, but to really mean it is to live it. I've met quite a few people who embody the idea of living His word, so they give me hope. And really, not all of those people I've seen are practicing Christians.

However, I will also say that I sometimes want to give the "missionaries" a swift kick to their hind end when they start up with the whole "trying to strong arm non-Christians into believing" act. I firmly believe that if a person wants to be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc. then they need to choose without being pushed into it.

^-^ Okay! I'm just glad I was helpful at least!

I really don't see how anyone expects to make a difference if they just get defensive, clearly it just doesn't help anybody! Emotions run hot and suddenly everyone's just mad at each other and all upset. So not worth it. X.x

But yeah, I talk to Orion. XD it's therapeutic I suppose. Go ahead and talk to the stars, but I call Orion from nine to eleven at night. :P

Not one thing in the Bible has been disproven to this day.

Care to give any references to support this statement?

Very well put! I completely agree with you on all of this. I think the purpose of this thread was simply to gain a better understanding of why people do have these beliefs. I for one, am more than willing to explain my reasoning so I jump at the chance. I dislike people who just discard Christianity without even avidly exploring it. I do not disregard any other religion or lack thereof without knowing everything about it.

That said, I am still exploring other religions because I do not know any completely. Should I find something that makes more sense to me than Christianity then I would be open minded enough to explore that further.

One last little thing. I don't think that having faith in a religion does any hurt, at least in someone like me. I'm not, after all, going to go start up a religious war. Only those who are exceedingly idiotic and narrow minded would start a mass war against the world, especially involving freaking children's crusades and shit (pardon me) like that. that just pisses me off.

Err... anyway, my point is this. If nothing happens in the end, then nothing happens but if something does happen, I have a few basses covered. Christianity could be right, and so I'm hoping to be good in God's books. If reincarnation is true, then I get another chance at it.

I think everyone needs to sit down and rethink things. I love how everyone blames the church for the past. It's wasn't the Church. It was a person. The Church is an idea of utopia in a sense. Well, Utopia's don't happen they way they are planned. People get in and use the power of that place for their own gains. It's not Church or people's fault. It's the person that went a did the sins fault. The Three Musketeers' Bishop is the perfect example. He worn the cloth to get what he wanted not do what Christ wanted him to do. People are manipulated by hope, look at Obama's campaign, it's the perfect example. The idea of hope is how he got into office. Not his promises or whatever. He used the idea of hope. The Muslim extremist use the same idea to recruit their bombers. There is the hope that one will go to heaven and get virgins. It's not Allah's fault or the Muslim Churches fault, these people are doing this, it's the person that wheeled and dealed fault.

care to give any disproving?

I like the way you think here.

You're right in saying that it isn't Christianity's fault but instead those in power. However, the Church is the people. In a sense, yeah, it was the Church.

But, it isn't the faith that is responsible for any wrongdoing, but the institution of that faith, usually known as the religion. The followers use the faith as an excuse to do what they please, but it is not the faith itself that is at fault. It is the abusive people, the Church, that is. One bad seed in a place of power can corrupt any institution. However, this is not to say that all Christians are bad (that would be highly hypocritical or self-degrading).

I agree- kinda of. The atrocities committed by various denominations of Christianity are not always brought about by religious motives. Looking back through history there are many examples where religion is being used as a facade to justify a terrible crime that was motivated by politics, power struggles ect. However I would be inclined to separate the followers from 'the church'. What one congregator preaches isn't necessarily what their church endorses and vica versa.

the grand canyon, dinosours, and the shroud of turin all disprove the bibles claim that the world is only 6,000 years old

The burden of proof falls upon the person making the claim; that would be you sir.

exactly.

You don't take the bible literally? Then how do you KNOW that there is a god? How do you know what rules to follow if you don't take the bible literally? The rules contradict themselves in the bible so what you pick and choose what to believe in the bible?