Originally Posted by Dest1218

Without religion who do we ask for help at night or when we're in a bad situation and what gives us enough hope to make it through another day?
People believe in the bible because we need SOMETHING to believe in and inconsistencies in the bible can be blamed on the translators
Personally i also need something to have faith in and the idea that there's someone up there who watches and cares for us is the only explanation for some things

Why do you need to ask anyone for help at night or when you're in a bad situation? I don't. What gives me hope? Myself.
I don't mean this in a condescending manner, but I find it sad that people have to have an invisible "something" to believe in. Why not just believe in yourself? Put your faith in yourself. Oh ye of little faith-perfect line actually. Why do you not have faith in yourself? Accept yourself and what you do. Realize that not everything is always going to be alright or go the right way and simply accept it. "God" certainly doesn't make everything alright nor stop bad things from happening. He's not stopping all the wrongs in the world nor the pain in our lives. Don't blame it on satin or the devil or whatever you choose to call him, because if god was really a god, he could certainly overpower the evil force.

When I read the Bible, I don't see a loving and kind god, I see a very vengeful, murderous one. I couldn't believe in a god that punishes his "children" in such horrible ways.

1. I don't rely on him to solve my problems - that i can do - When i pray to god i don't ask him to solve my problems praying is just talking to god so it would be like asking my friend to solve all my problems
2.God is not there to stop bad things from happening he's merely there to help those who are going through it
3. I never said i believe that he punishes us - i don't believe there is a hell - atleast not the way movies and books portray it.
4. Most atheists are upset because they always have to defend what they believe but really all they ever do is try to force christians to defend themselves and I think THAT'S sad. We believe in God because we aren't able to not believe that there's something better. You don't believe because you have no reason to or because you like facts- why not just leave it at that?

Originally Posted by Infinitys Echo

When I read the Bible, I don't see a loving and kind god, I see a very vengeful, murderous one. I couldn't believe in a god that punishes his "children" in such horrible ways.

Well that depends if you believe in Yahweh or the trinity.

Originally Posted by Dest1218

1. I don't rely on him to solve my problems - that i can do - When i pray to god i don't ask him to solve my problems praying is just talking to god so it would be like asking my friend to solve all my problems
2.God is not there to stop bad things from happening he's merely there to help those who are going through it
3. I never said i believe that he punishes us - i don't believe there is a hell - atleast not the way movies and books portray it.
4. Most atheists are upset because they always have to defend what they believe but really all they ever do is try to force christians to defend themselves and I think THAT'S sad. We believe in God because we aren't able to not believe that there's something better. You don't believe because you have no reason to or because you like facts- why not just leave it at that?

Many say they pray for the strength to get through such a hard time. While I can understand that, I don't agree it needs to be done, or at least not to a god. That's why I say to believe and have faith in yourself. If you do, you will find the strength that you are looking for, with no help from whatever god it is that you are hoping to get it from. It's a mindset.
No, if he's there, he certainly doesn't stop all the bad things from happening, but I also don't believe he's there to get us through. We get ourselves through.
I know you didn't say he punishes things. My post responding was actually more of a jumping point to enter the conversation. But the god of the Bible does indeed punish people and call for murder even. As for heaven and hell, I believe we can find that here in our present lives right here on earth.
For the record, I'm not an atheist, I'm more agnostic. You can't prove there is a god nor can you disprove him. I believe there is something higher than us, just that we don't know what it is. I don't believe it's an invisible "god" though. Maybe an alien lifeforce of some kind, or pure energy itself, I don't know. If we just "left it at that", then this discussion wouldn't be here, as well as the fact that you wouldn't have felt a need to respond in this thread.

Originally Posted by una

Well that depends if you believe in Yahweh or the trinity.

I'm not quite sure what you meant by this. To my knowledge, Yahweh is God, and the Trinity believes in God as a part of it. Either way, he's not a really nice being. He only stopped his murderous, vengeful, punishing ways when Jesus Christ came on the scene to fulfill prophecy and forgive us all our sins with grace.

Ya know, I thought the same thing and I have come to the conclusion that if a religion is specific, it will lead to trouble. I believe that something created the universe. I believe there is something after death. I believe life here was not a product of evolution only. In this way I can balance both science and religion without having any contradicting evidence and I don't have to say anything about my "god" because it doesn't even have a name. Many things in both religion and science contradict other things within themselves. Neither science nor religion are 100% true. You have to take both sides if you want progress. That's just my take on it though...

First of all, I don't have a real arguement. Second of all, I am a Christian. Why? Because it's what I feel. Ok, so I'm not the best Christian of all time....heck no Christian is perfect. We are not above anybody else. It doesn't matter what religion we are in. Third, I have nothing against anybody who has a different religion or lack of, my best friend is a Atheist, I have gay friends in fact I am a bi-curious female. I am not close minded to the things that are going around me. And I do respect all of your options, I am not here to push anything down your throat.

Again, it is what I feel and nobody can change how I feel.

My mother actually never put me in religous school, so I was never brought up as anything, and I love her to death for that, especially because she does believe in God. I don't know many parents that don't push what they believe onto their children, brainwashing them from brith rather then letting them choose.
Anyway, I completely agree with you, but not just with the bible, with all religion. They all do it. However, I was having a conversation with someone the other day, and my mind could not understand how anyone could ever answer a question the way he answered mine, and be okay with their beliefs.
I asked someone why it was that God hated homosexuals, a real serious question I wanted to know the answer to, and he told me it was because they were the work of satan. That's when I jumped to Adam and Eve, I asked who their children had sex with to reproduced, and he answered their brothers and sisters. Well, obviously I asked why God thought it was okay for brothers and sisters to have sex, but not two men or two women. What did he tell me? "That's just the way it is.'' How in the world can anyone accept that as a legit answer, honestly?

What exactly are you saying all religions do? :| Because with as many of them as there are, you'd be hard-pressed to find anything that every single one does.

Originally Posted by Philomel

What exactly are you saying all religions do? :| Because with as many of them as there are, you'd be hard-pressed to find anything that every single one does.

This is a question which I too am curious about. While the most simple answer I can think of is they give an understanding of how to behave and what everything means, the downside to this answer would be that it is little more than the definition for culture.

Originally Posted by reddeath26

This is a question which I too am curious about. While the most simple answer I can think of is they give an understanding of how to behave and what everything means, the downside to this answer would be that it is little more than the definition for culture.

Even then, there are exceptions. For instance, unless you consider directions on how to perform rituals, not all have guidelines as to how you must act. And as far as the meaning of life, as it were, I can think of a fair few counterexamples.

What irritates me about this statement is that it usually is referring to things that are solely Abrahamic, or even solely Christian (I've actually had people tell me they hate all religion because of something Jesus did). I'm quite religious, in the sense that I mould my schedule and life around my religion and do some less-than-pleasant things for it, yet I am not Christian and am about as far from it as one can be without doing so intentionally. So, when someone says they hate all religions or hate religious people, it's very offensive to me, even if what they really meant was Christian religious people.

Originally Posted by Philomel

Even then, there are exceptions. For instance, unless you consider directions on how to perform rituals, not all have guidelines as to how you must act. And as far as the meaning of life, as it were, I can think of a fair few counterexamples.

You caught me out there, as I was trying to match it too closely to the definition of culture. Whereas religion can be a central part of culture, it is not an entire culture in itself. Perhaps it would of been more appropriate if I said how to behave and what things mean? I would also add the by how to behave this can vary in its influence, from vast moral codes to simply how one should respond to a few very specific situations.

Originally Posted by Philomel

What irritates me about this statement is that it usually is referring to things that are solely Abrahamic, or even solely Christian (I've actually had people tell me they hate all religion because of something Jesus did).

Agreed on this point very strongly, as this can be rather annoying. For instance tribal peoples and small scale cultures have vastly different experiences with culture.

Originally Posted by Philomel

I'm quite religious, in the sense that I mould my schedule and life around my religion and do some less-than-pleasant things for it, yet I am not Christian and am about as far from it as one can be without doing so intentionally. So, when someone says they hate all religions or hate religious people, it's very offensive to me, even if what they really meant was Christian religious people.

While I am not religious myself, my approach to Anthropology is greatly influenced by theories such as Historical Particularism, Functionalism and Post Modernism.

Originally Posted by Liath

I think the main thing i don't understand about christianity is the whole adultery thing. A ot of christians don't believe in having sex before getting married, when that's such an old rule. In biblical times, it was harder to prevent pregnancies and to tell who the father of a child was, etc, etc. But now with birth control, there shouldn't be anything terribly wrong with adultery. And if someone never gets married, does that mean they should never have sex? I think that is silly. But of course, in biblical times, everyone eventually got married, most likely. Today, however, many people never do.

another thing my christian friend tells me is that if global warming does something bad to the earth, it's god's will. So while she cares about taking care of the environment, she does not care about recycling or wasting gas or anything relating to global warming. I think that is silly because it is up to people to stop wasting plastic bags, etc, etc. That isn't god's job to prevent global warming.

You know, not sticking your finger in fire because it will burn could be considered a very, very, very old rule. Most rules in the Bible that had to do with personal conduct have a logical base. Don't kill. Don't steal. Cuz you're going to hurt others and yourself. Duh! Same with marriage. Sex was saved for marriage for more than a practical reason.

And the reason is that marriage was meant to be sacred and bind to people for the rest of their lives. The act of sex is the biggest emotional bond maker there is. But treating it like a common pleasure is like the serial killer having fun killing. The act of killing deadens the soul the more it is done. Just as sex creates a bond between people. Contently braking that bond with others deadens the ability to have one. And it has been proven too that couples that live together have higher divorce rates then those those who don't. And those who waited for marriage to have sex almost always have long, happy marriages

And lets not forget pure logic. If you won't follow the rules, don't sign the contract. If you don't intend to treat a relationship seriously, DON'T GET ONE! Same for marriage. If not, not you're only hurting others and yourself. And the saddest part is most people don't know that. Cuz it's all fun and games to them. And then people wonder why they have such retched lives!

So the point to all this is that the Bibles rules will not stop being logical just cuz they're old. A lot of trouble would have been saved if people would have just read them. You know, while doctors were just noticing that quarantining stopped the spread of disease, and that the simple act of washing hands stopped germs from spreading, it was in the Bible all along?!! Yeah believe it or not the Bible is full of guidelines on cleanliness. So sexually transmitted diseases and the Black Plague of medieval times look pretty stupid now, ha?

As for what is God's will and what is not, God wants people to be safe and happy and ethical. But he gave humans the power of free will. And if they are going to poison their planet, He has to let it happen and hope in the end they will learn. Just like a parent has to let their kids go and make their own mistakes. But it is never their will the mistakes be made. So your friend has just made a very lame excuse to be lazy.

To the original topic: it's easy to believe what you've been brought up to believe. Pretty much anything can be blamed on translation error, or the change of wording over time as people miscopy, change their copies on purpose, and adapt to the changes in meaning of living languages.

Further, people are used to living with flawed things. Clothing, housing, machines, people, social structures... if they can deal with the problems in those, there's nothing to stop them from dealing with a religious structure whose core documents are self-contradictory (or mistranslated, or maltranslated, or... you get the idea.)

Some people need something to believe in. And I guess the bible makes it easy for them.
I think one should take the GOOD lessons from the bible.
Like love your neighbor. Don't kill or steal. Common sense stuff like that.
But when they take every word literally, then it becomes a problem.
Have faith, just don't be obsessed with it.

Everyone believes in something. Even science is nothing more than theories that many people over time have come to believe in. Why? Cause it just makes scene to them. Sure you have people who over do things, like the extremist. But just because they believe in God(s) or lack of God(s) doesn't make them ignorant, it just give them a different view on the world.
Sure, the Bible and other religious books have their flaws. So does everything else in the world. Some people think homosexuality is a sin, others believe it is natural. In the end, it just makes use that much more different, keeping the world a more interesting place. Really, how boring would the world be if we all agreed with everything. I do think, however, that many people take what they believe in too far and hurt physically or mentally others is wrong. But this doesn't mean that every Christan that follows the Bible is going to go out and beat up someone because they they love someone of another gender. (By the way, I believe that homosexuality is natural, since studies have proven that some animals prefer to "mate" with another animal of the same gender.)
And for wasting there lives, they're doing what they want. Who knows what they might do without their religion? For most, religion makes them happy and gives them hope and purpose. With out this, some would really waste their lives, fearing the end and not knowing what to really live for. Live only to repopulate? Only to make sure the human race lives on? That doesn't sound like the best life for everyone.

the books luke and matthew are by two different people so they would obviously record stuff from their different viewpoints. and i'm a christian, but i don't believe everything in the bible. when king james and whoever else translated the bible to english centuries ago, the translators could've made some mistakes or changed some things based on the morals of society back in that day. so i don't take the bible to face value like some hardcore christians do. but i do follow the basic ideas and stuff in it

Just because one can't 'see' something in the physical plane, doesn't mean it's not there. I think that's why faith plays such a huge role in any religion. I myself am a Christian and I am still learning and growing.

The Bible can be viewed in other ways. It can also be used for good and bad. Now I do know that not all Christian are close-minded. People are different.

Why is science allowed to change its mind every half century or so, but faith has to stay the same for eons to come? The Bible was written thousands of years ago! Of course we're going to find fallacies and discrepancies in it now, just as you will find fallacies and discrepancies in thousand year old scientific texts. But that doesn't make those texts worthless, or entirely wrong. You don't have to say "you either accept everything Newton wrote or none of it", that's rather ridiculous. I try to be very scientific about my faith; for example, when praying for guidance, I don't just say "give me a sign!" and then interpret the next five minutes however I want -- rather, I ask for several very specific signs and wait until there is enough corroborating evidence that God really is speaking (see Gideon). Faith is not meant to be blind, it is meant to change and evolve and grow based on observational evidence and empiricism. Sounds a lot like science, doesn't it?

I think that if people want to believe in something, they should as long as they leave the rest of us the hell alone!
If they have commercials for their church or whatever, then thats fine, but if they try to shove their religion in your face, then they need a good beating.
My family has absolutely no religion and I love that. We all just believe in our own thing and respect the other person for that.

I, myself, used to believe that the bible was the shizznit and whanot, but now I know theirs just to much stuff that doesn't come out right.....if you know what I mean.
I was hard to say it in words XP

Ummm, sorry if this is considered off topic, but you guys are forgetting something in your debate: Christianity and it's many branches is not the only religion that people believe in. Just thought I'd bring that up as well...

You know, many Christians are obsessed with their faith and believe all the other religions should convert to it. Not saying all are but don't shove a religion don someone's throat or they will choke. Other religions believe in the same thing they do. Like my religion, Islam, it believes in Jesus and Moses and all the others. Some people don't understand that and say some ignorant things. One time my mom went to a class for babies with a hijab and the lady started saying things like "did you know Arabia has the highest rape rate in the world?" and that her parents were Muslim and her dad beat her mom. First of all, a lot of Arabs are christians or just not Muslim. Second of all, in the Quran it says not too beat your wife and has all kinds off chapters on woman's rights.Another religion is Judaism. It believes in all the things christians and muslims believe. If you look at all religions, they more or less have the same rules.

Originally Posted by Shtona

I am a Christian-turned-Atheist and I've often wondered how people can look at the obvious fallacies in the book right in front of them, that is practically shoved down their throat every week, and not question them? It's amazing to me how blind 'blind faith' is! Take Luke and Matthew for example: they are the only two books that even mention the birth of Christ (a very important subject for Christians) and they don't coincide. How do you read these books and first off: not notice it; and second: believe it?!

*Calming down...*

Sorry, touchy subject for me...

So the stage is set: How do Christians ignore the fallacies in their beliefs?

For the record, I have no religion. I think this whole statement in mean and a basic attack on a religion. There maybe flaws but who are you to judge a person who believes in Christianity? I don't mind you voicing your opinion on why you don't like that certain religion, but don't go after the whole people. Just because you don't understand the Bible doesn't mean it is wrong. The Bible was written hundreds of years ago in an English we don't even speak and as all literature, is subject to interpretation by the person studying it.

I have religious friends, Christians, Catholics, Muslims, and even though I don't share their views, I don't attack their religious because of some book written by man many years ago.

I agree with Tsukipon.

I don't have a religion. I am not atheist. I just choose to live my life everyday, and I have to say, I feel no different than the rest. And that's good enough for me. But I will never attack someone for believing in what they choose to believe.

Firstly, you talked about having the bible "shoved down their throat". But aren't you shoving your own opinion as well? You're trying to push what you believe is the truth onto other people. Not only is it rude, but it's hypocritical.

There was a way to go about this subject, and you avoided it.

Originally Posted by Double S

Firstly, you talked about having the bible "shoved down their throat".

Double S has a point. You act like these people are sitting there against their will. They read the Bible because they choose to. They attend church because they choose to and because they believe.

We are all but helplessly grabbing at straws, any little bit we catch a hold of becomes our world, our obsession. This little sliver of hope let's through so much light, that it leaves us blinded. In our quest, in our need to be more than just here, we will willingly allow ourselves to be blinded by hope and higher purpose. We are not just a random chance of flying debris, nor dividing and dying cells...we belong to a greater whole, we have worth and value. We hold in our hands all the meanings we create by the million little synapses exploding in our heads. As real as anything as chemicals react and make real the impossible.
The human capacity to make believe makes belief.