Well~

I am a Christian, I go to a Christian college in fact and I will admit that there are some people who take the religion to extremes. I'm someone who isn't strict, I feel that you should live your life as you see you should. If you are lost and looking for guidance into a religion and want to talk about it sure but I'm not going to walk up and force it on anyone. In fact I know a lot of Christians that feel the same way.

Now, so everyone knows. MOST intelligent Christians like many of my professors are fully aware of these fallacies and recognize them for what they are. But lets break it apart a little bit.

The bible not making any sense well lets us begin with how it was created. The bible is a bunch of secondary and tertiary sources...(if you don't know what those are just ask I'll explain them) put together in an attempt to gather a type of story in which those who wish to follow the beliefs and teachings of Jesus and other people. Now there are many Gospels that the Catholic Church axed out because it didn't fit what THEY wanted it to say. There are Gospels that are called the Gnostic Gospels, which are gospels that were not included in the Bible. But like any part of history all of this was being pieced together after these pieces were written;therfore, there are holes in it...but like I said there are holes in all of history. These aren't professionals that wrote down facts, no they were people writing things like journals or writing in ways that people of the time would understand and be able to relate to their writings. Because of this writing style though we, the people of the present, do not understand many of the relevancy's that were made through these writings. This then leads to miss translations, and the bible has been translated so many times by now that mistakes are going to occur whether it had been written in the modern tongue or not.
Does that help when it comes to the bible?
I simply use the bible as a guideline to how I should live, today's world is very different from that of the time it was written. The old testament, I understand is nearly black compared to the New Testaments white. BUT again the different books inside the bible were written at different times.

As for picking apart only parts that you like, well that is today's society. After all they simply want the good and none of the bad that comes with it. BUT in defense to picking what you believe in out of the Christianity religion I agree with many others in here by saying that that is where the different sec.'s come in. Presbyterian, Free Methodist, Lutheran, Calvinist and the many others all broke apart from mother Catholic Church because they picked out what they believed and disagreed on the others things. Also, it is possible to believe in one thing and not the other. I believe in the ten commandments but I am for Gay rights because I see it as Satan could never know love...this is very against what everyone says the bible says. But the Bible was written by HUMANS that means there is a bias, no matter how saint like these men might have been.

I'm a history education major, I'm sorry if I repeated some things but its the truth. If you want to look at it from another view, everyone is going to Hell; because every religion says that if you don't believe in that one the non-believers are going to hell. Don't you think it is a little nicer to think that you can go to heaven if you are a good person? Rotting in the ground sounds a little less encouraging to be a good person and a little more supportive of the 'who cares what we do' idea. I think if this was what you wanted to talk about you could have been more polite about it. I question my religion constantly and enjoy picking on its flaws, even get into a few good debates with my roommate, classmates, teammates and professors about it. But you made it sound like anyone willing to trust in something that can't be proven flawless in an air tight logical way is stupid.

Originally Posted by CallMeCal1987

Why is science allowed to change its mind every half century or so, but faith has to stay the same for eons to come? The Bible was written thousands of years ago! Of course we're going to find fallacies and discrepancies in it now, just as you will find fallacies and discrepancies in thousand year old scientific texts. But that doesn't make those texts worthless, or entirely wrong. You don't have to say "you either accept everything Newton wrote or none of it", that's rather ridiculous. I try to be very scientific about my faith; for example, when praying for guidance, I don't just say "give me a sign!" and then interpret the next five minutes however I want -- rather, I ask for several very specific signs and wait until there is enough corroborating evidence that God really is speaking (see Gideon). Faith is not meant to be blind, it is meant to change and evolve and grow based on observational evidence and empiricism. Sounds a lot like science, doesn't it?

Unless, of course, you've spent hundreds upon hundreds of years adamantly claiming that your faith stems from an infallible word written by an infallible God.

You can't really have it both ways: either God is infallible, or he isn't. If he isn't, and he's just clamoring along, collecting evidence empirically like any other scientist, prepared to revise his Good Book, then:

- Why should we believe anything in his outdated version?

- When can we expect a sequel?

- Why shouldn't we just stick to science, since it's been producing empirically-supported answers for centuries, much to to the disdain of "God's people?"

christians are actually pretty big sinners! they completely ignore "thou shal not worship any graven image".. which includes crosses.. by wearing it and/or keeping one in your home your breaking that one...

Originally Posted by AcidDrop

christians are actually pretty big sinners! they completely ignore "thou shal not worship any graven image".. which includes crosses.. by wearing it and/or keeping one in your home your breaking that one...

To be entirely fair, that's not worship. Veneration and honouring are not the same as worship. Now, the way some Christians treat their religious symbols certainly comes close to it.

I think the more pressing issue is the widespread disregarding of the Law of Agape. I was never even taught about it when I was Christian, and most Christians I've spoken to haven't heard of it, either. That and how easily they seem to be influenced by pop culture would likely be enough to push me out of the faith if I were still a part of it.

I think it's interesting how they say god is almighty and powerful but then they also say that satan is quite powerful too. So if god is so almighty why can't he just eradicate all that is evil? Wouldn't that mean he is not almighty and powerful?

Originally Posted by Namanu

I think it's interesting how they say god is almighty and powerful but then they also say that satan is quite powerful too. So if god is so almighty why can't he just eradicate all that is evil? Wouldn't that mean he is not almighty and powerful?

Well, Satan being evil is not in any way supported by the Bible. To destroy Satan would be to destroy a servant. They mostly get that from Milton and Dante. Also, can /=/ will.

(In before the Christians :P )

The author of this board mentioned fallacies within the Bible, but I'm curious as to what he thinks are fallacies? Due to the writers or the books in question, and some historical reasoning certain fallacies are not fallacies at all. An example would be the two listings of heritage underneath one name. mainly, Joseph. It isn't really possible for Joseph to have two family listings, but in the past one of those family branches counted as Mary's. If this makes no sense, then I apologize. ^^;;

The Bible is an imperfect book written by man. There will be things that just don't seem to make sense, and that's because it's the same story from different perspective. It's full of opinion.

I believe in God and Christ because it only makes sense to me. It makes sense that God would create a son to spread His word in a time of need. I believe in the Catholic Church because they are the original.

Originally Posted by The_Good_Kid_13

I believe in the Catholic Church because they are the original.

Could you please define original? It could mean a couple of different things in this context and I don't want to make any assumptions about what you're saying.

Originally Posted by Keyori

Could you please define original? It could mean a couple of different things in this context and I don't want to make any assumptions about what you're saying.

Catholicism is the original Christian Church. The First Church.

Ah, okay. So to paraphrase, you subscribe to Christian beliefs, but specifically Catholicism because it was first?

I am catholic too , but i aint just catolic cause it was the fisrt , i really belive on their words , i mean it!

Originally Posted by Keyori

Ah, okay. So to paraphrase, you subscribe to Christian beliefs, but specifically Catholicism because it was first?

Specifically Catholic because of the way they worship and because they hold true to the traditions [such as the Stations of the Cross and Communion]

Originally Posted by Aspirina_br

I am catholic too , but i aint just catolic cause it was the fisrt , i really belive on their words , i mean it!

Well so do I. I was raised with remnants of my mother's Lutheran background, and as I got older I began to develop my own theories and beliefs. The Catholic Church has been the only church that I can agree with.

Originally Posted by The_Good_Kid_13

Specifically Catholic because of the way they worship and because they hold true to the traditions [such as the Stations of the Cross and Communion]

Well so do I. I was raised with remnants of my mother's Lutheran background, and as I got older I began to develop my own theories and beliefs. The Catholic Church has been the only church that I can agree with.

I deeply respect that you hold your beliefs due to your own reasoning, and not because of what your parents told you :)

You answered all of my questions. Thanks!

I guess that's why it's called "Faith" ... it doesn't necessarily mean that religion is fiction, it just means those who choose to believe, find a way to believe in the faith...

I personally am an Anglican, not overly religious (I don't go to church, I think I've been twice in my life) but I believe in a higher power, because I choose to believe this life can't be worth nothing when it's over...

We're all just energy after all and whether you believe that energy becomes a ghost, goes to heaven/hell, or just evaporates into thin air, that's your belief and you have every right to believe in it...

Originally Posted by Keyori

I deeply respect that you hold your beliefs due to your own reasoning, and not because of what your parents told you :)

You answered all of my questions. Thanks!

haha No problem!

It's nerve-wracking, I can tell you that.

My brother and I were big science freaks and talked about never following a religion, because we knew the truth. Somehow, over the years, he decides to be a born-again Christian. Suddenly all the scientific discussions that we had (that hold legitimate proof) is out the window, and he goes so far as to say, that I'm going to Hell for not believing in the Bible.

I wouldn't mind if he was Christian and also was open-minded and thought logically, seeing two sides of the coin as he used to do. But since he stopped doing that, it just broke my heart how he now sees everything in black and white, and practically shun-tolerates non-believers -- tolerating them because they are family and friends, but really shunning them behind their backs.

First off, we are to learn from the Old Testaments and keep the Ten Commandments. Nothing more. This is what I understand and was taught. Now, the New Testament we live in. We are suppose to live our lives, but be weary of the things to come. Which have passed. In the Bible, it for tells the Twin Towers falling. Even my friend, and he isn't religious one bit, but he has picked out things in Revelation that has come true.

With that said. Science hold no answers. The scientists only Theories how the earth was created, how we were created. I have not seen anything from science that says I should stop believing because God isn't real.

In fact, the Bible even says that it is based of faith and nothing more. You don't have to go to church to believe in God, because your yourself are a temple. In order to believe in something you have to have faith. That's what all religions come down to, and hope. My opinion.

Originally Posted by Crudusrose

First off, we are to learn from the Old Testaments and keep the Ten Commandments. Nothing more. This is what I understand and was taught. Now, the New Testament we live in. We are suppose to live our lives, but be weary of the things to come. Which have passed. In the Bible, it for tells the Twin Towers falling. Even my friend, and he isn't religious one bit, but he has picked out things in Revelation that has come true.

The Book of Revelation was written as political commentary on the situation for Christians at the time, mixed with hallucinations caused by inhaling too many toxic fumes (honest to god). It's even written in the past tense. It also flies in the face of much of the rest of the Bible -- for instance, it's the only place where Satan is linked to Eden or seen as a malevolent force. There's no reason to believe it foretells future events, even if you're Christian.

Originally Posted by Philomel

The Book of Revelation was written as political commentary on the situation for Christians at the time, mixed with hallucinations caused by inhaling too many toxic fumes (honest to god). It's even written in the past tense. It also flies in the face of much of the rest of the Bible -- for instance, it's the only place where Satan is linked to Eden or seen as a malevolent force. There's no reason to believe it foretells future events, even if you're Christian.

But is hallucinations really a vision? you may never know, have you had a vision no you have not so therefore you cannot claim to understand or even comprehend might have happened nor did you live back then. And actually In revelations, the man writing has seen it all come down, he had been given a vision by god to view what was to come therefore he wrote in the past tense for he was there when he saw it all! he had seen the fall of Babylon and the coming of the anti-christ so wouldn't you write in the past tense? if you already saw it happen and knew what was to come, you wouldn't write in the present tense for it hasn't happened before the vision nor has it happened now, and if he wrote in the future tense it would loose it's meaning. for we ALL will watch this happen. <,<

But you're missing the point. It was written as political commentary. The whole 666 thing? A reference to Nero, not Satan. The whole book was written to give Christians hope, to reassure them that the persecution they were suffering was only temporary, that they'd survive and prosper even if Rome did not. It is not in any way meant to reflect future events. Christian scholars know this, and treat it as such. Some Christians write it off altogether, because it contradicts the rest of the NT and even Bible as a whole.

And actually, my religion focuses on ecstatic ritual, which includes "visions". Do not pretend to know anything about me.

Originally Posted by Shtona

I am a Christian-turned-Atheist and I've often wondered how people can look at the obvious fallacies in the book right in front of them, that is practically shoved down their throat every week, and not question them? It's amazing to me how blind 'blind faith' is! Take Luke and Matthew for example: they are the only two books that even mention the birth of Christ (a very important subject for Christians) and they don't coincide. How do you read these books and first off: not notice it; and second: believe it?!

*Calming down...*

Sorry, touchy subject for me...

So the stage is set: How do Christians ignore the fallacies in their beliefs?

I would say about 95% (I will give some the benefit of the doubt)of religious groups pick what they want from their religious texts and take out what they don't want. If they truly believed what the bible states then they wouldn't be doing half of what most religions condone. I'm sure there is at least one religious group out there that truly worships their God how they are suppose to according to their own religious beliefs.

Originally Posted by Lady_Megami

I would say about 95% (I will give some the benefit of the doubt)of religious groups pick what they want from their religious texts and take out what they don't want. If they truly believed what the bible states then they wouldn't be doing half of what most religions condone. I'm sure there is at least one religious group out there that truly worships their God how they are suppose to according to their own religious beliefs.

Not all religious groups have religious texts. Not all religious groups have gods. Not all religions are orthodoxic. Please take this into consideration when making blanket statements about religion. :)

Originally Posted by Philomel

Not all religious groups have religious texts. Not all religious groups have gods. Not all religions are orthodoxic. Please take this into consideration when making blanket statements about religion. :)

God .... gods..goddesses...spiritual beings...they are all the same...unless you are considering atheists a religion then your right they have no god.

texts..books...scrolls....most religions have these...they might not be available for all their members to share like most of the common beliefs..but they still have them.

orthodox or non orthodox..does it really matter how you classify a religion?

Originally Posted by Lady_Megami

God .... gods..goddesses...spiritual beings...they are all the same...unless you are considering atheists a religion then your right they have no god.

No, but there are atheistic religions. Many Buddhists are atheist, I believe Jains are, and LaVeyan Satanists are necessarily atheists.

texts..books...scrolls....most religions have these...they might not be available for all their members to share like most of the common beliefs..but they still have them.

There are many, many religions that are oral traditions. My own is one. Our only "religious texts" are books and essays and poems written by members of the religion. They are considered sacred, just as all works of creativity are, however, they are not the end-all-be-all, and you are entirely free to agree or disagree.

orthodox or non orthodox..does it really matter how you classify a religion?

Well, yes :| Orthodoxies are based around "right belief". This means that you can do whatever you want, but you must believe the religion's core principles. Orthopraxies are based on "right practice". This means that you can believe whatever you want, as long as you do what the religion demands. Which group a religion belongs to matters greatly when considering whether or not the members of said religion are doing what they should be.