Teacher/Student lovin'
 

Alright, the answer here is probably a no brainer to most of you. IT'S WRONG, IT'S IRRESPONSIBLE, blah blah blah. Okay well now let's put the Debra LaFave's of the world aside and be reasonable.
I have actually heard of a few cases, 2 in particular, where a High School Teacher and a student hook up/end up together. The girls (students) were 18, and the relationship didn't fully come out until they graduated. As far as I know now, one girl is engaged to her buisness teacher, and the other is married with 2 kids to her gym teacher (obviously much older now).
I mean come on.. we've all been there. We've all thought he/she was cute or had a tiny crush on that hot authority figure. I've had my few shares of "Yesss please tell me more about Historyyyy *drool*" but I'd never go farther then that. Do you think actually starting a relationship with a student is crossing the line, even when it does work out? (Again, NOT the 14 year olds! I'm talking about Seniors, college even!)
After all I know plenty of people dating others OLD enough to be their teachers, but since they're not they're teachers it seems to be okay.
Is it truly irresponsible?

Thoughts please!:)

A teacher becomes a teacher to help children learn and grow. That does not include teaching how to perform in the bed room. First off, a student even at being seventeen or eighteen is still a child.

There is a difference between a teacher student relationship in the high school setting then one in the collage setting. In collage, both parties are above the legal age of consent and should be left to their own private matters as long as it doesn't interfere with the class. That is the reason why a collage teacher can get fired, they feel that a teacher should know better then to start a relationship with a student. It might be viewed as the teacher giving the student a leg up (no pun intended).

I have not been one not to date an older guy, so I can't judge a person for dating someone older then themselves. But, seriously, a student younger then eighteen and a teacher has no business being together.

I don't think this issue should be at all taken lightly, but I don't think the media does anyone a favor by making these stories so highly publicized.

Each case should be judged on its own merits, and in some circumstances, especially when the student is well into the age of consent, I believe that these relationships can be justified, but there are just as many that can't.

You're spelling college wrong just FYI.

I don't see how an 18 year old is a child either. Especially seeing as one is forced to be tried as an adult at the age of 16. Did you know in most states you are actually allowed to legally consent to sex at the age of 17? I've gone through all of this, as have my sister and my roommates.

If you are 18, by law, you are legally allowed to consent to sex (in every state). You are an adult. I don't think it really should matter if it's your teacher or not. That shouldn't be the schools business so long as you keep it outside of school. I had plenty of teacher sin my school who were in their 20's. Say I'm 18 and dating my 23 year old teacher. What's the issue? Not like there's a huge age difference and maybe I'm more mature for my age. I know growing up I was far more mature for my age than most of the girls around me.

Each case should be judged case to case, but if both participants are 18 or older, people need to butt out and mind their own damned business. If you are 18 you are old enough to die for your country, but not mature enough to decide who you're going to have sex with? Sorry, that just doesn't seem fair to me.

The SCHOOL might have a policy on something like this, like a work place might have policies on dating co-workers, but legally, there is nothing they can do. They may ask the teacher to step down and whatnot, but they cannot take any legal actions as the student would be a consenting adult. I don't think anyone has the right to tell them they can sleep with other people because they're an adult, but not with this other person because they're their teacher.

Something insignificant..that really doesn't need to be corrected.

And according to the US government a person is a child until they reach the age of eighteen. So, yes...they are a child, just look at your tax returns.

I mentioned eighteen because, even though they might be of legal age, if they are still in high school then it is inappropriate.

Personally, I'm okay if they're both above the age of consent, especially if the student in question is 18 or older. I'd feel even more confortable if the relationship started after the student left the teacher's class, but that's just my personal take.

And really, I begin to wonder as I get older, where does the line of a teacher's authority over a student end? Take my high school band director. In a few years I will be one of her peers rather than a student. Doesn't that mean I can look to her as a friend, or do I really have to treat her with same respect that I did when I was her student? I think we can all agree that I can call her a friend and former teacher. I don't see what's wrong with an 18 year old dating one of his/her former high school teachers, or a college freshman dating one of the professors. As long as the professor doesn't abuse his/her power, I'm okay.

@ Lady_Megami: Hey, I was 18 in my senior year of high school, as were the majority of my class mates. I see what you're trying to say, but still.

In my view, the issue is not the teacher's responsibility to teach or whether or not the student is a "child" or any of that, but rather that the teacher is in a definite place of authority, and it would be far too easy to pressure a student into having sex when their grade (and even future) is on the line, and far too difficult to tell if this was the case afterwards. This goes for college situations as well.

Once they are no longer in a place of authority, such as after the student has graduated or if the teacher quits, I don't see a problem with it.

I don't see how hard it is to wait until the teenager is out of school, even if they are eighteen. Seriously, it isn't worth your job.

Megami, you might not think it's worth it, but I find it extremely irritating and it makes it difficult for me to read your posts without getting frustrated. I was in no way rude about it, it was a simple thing I pointed out.

Also, you're contradicting yourself.

Now you're saying though if the person is in high school that it's inappropriate anyways.

That's your opinion, and I don't really think this debate is about the teachers job. I, myself, have given up many things for my boyfriend. If someone decides that they would rather loose their job than go another day without that other person, that's their own, personal business that they have to decide for themselves.

I never said they weren't I said that at the age of 16 you will be TRIED, like, you know, in COURT, as an adult. Often times even younger, 16 I know for sure though, is when you WILL be. I also said that in many states that at the age of 17 is when you are allowed to consent to sex. There are different "levels" of adulthood. I, myself, just turned 21 today. Even though I've been an adult for 3 year, 3 years of being able to serve and die for my country, I'm only just NOW being allowed to have a beer legally. At the age of 16, you are an adult in the eyes of the COURT. At the age of 17 (in most states, including my own) you are allowed to LEGALLY consent to sex. (though my state has some weird law that if they are any more than 3 years older than you it suddenly becomes molestation of a minor). If, in many states, at the age of 17, you are allowed to give you consent and legally, why should there be any legal repercussions of a teacher/student relationship?

According to YOU and the LAW they are BOTH consenting adults. It's not a legal issue, at all. It becomes a business issue that the SCHOOL has to deal with.

The fact that this debate is about only legally consenting adults makes it hard to have a debate over, it becomes a complete moral battle, which never goes well. We, as people, cannot decide what action the school system would take against the teacher, and that's none of our business as it's now a work related issue and not a legal issue in any way.

Sure, some people might think that the teacher is biased and then going to grade that student unfairly, but I honestly don't think that it happens. From my own, personally experience, people tend to be harder on the ones they love, to push them to their limits so that they will do the best they can, not hold them back. I don't see why so many people think that just because they have a romantic relationship that the teacher is going to stop being that, a teacher. I would think that they would be harder on them and expect more, that's definitely the case in many other matters.

I think a lot of the reason people are against it is because these teachers spend more time with these "kids" (even though we're talking about legally consenting adults here), than parents do. It's not a bash on parents, it's just a fact. You spend 9 months out of the year, 5 days a week, 7-8 hours a day, with these teachers. When you get home, your parents are often still at work for a few more hours. So, lets assume that you get up at 7am and get to school at 8am. Then from 8-3 you're at school. So far that's 8 hours. Then you go home, and say your parents get home at around 6pm (going by a 9-5 schedule). That's already 11 hours without your parents around. There's 13 hours left in the day. 9 of those are spent sleeping. So...only 4 hour out of the day are spent with your parents. Also, lets face it, most "kids" don't sit around talking to their parents either, not at 17-18. So, you're spending most of your year and most of you day around you teachers. To expect that NO romantic bond may happen between some students and their teachers is just insane. It's GOING to happen, it cannot be helped and they shouldn't be punished when the student is a consenting adult. If they can prove that the teacher is being unbiased and that the couple is keeping it out of school, then there shouldn't be an issue. Just because someone went and blabbed doesn't seem fair to me. I understand it's a work related issue, but it should be judged case to case. I just don't see how it's unprofessional if it's not coming into the teachers workplace at all.

We all make mistakes at time, Collage/college....sometimes I rely to much on my auto spell checker to really check the grammar of the post. So I apologize for misspelling collage...you got what I meant..that was what matter...not the grammar issue.
Now how am I contradicting myself? I said that a high school student at any age should not get involved with a sexual relationship with a teacher. I wouldn't blame the student for falling for a teacher, the teacher should know better; and if it a consenting relationship, once the student turns eighteen; there shouldn't be much time until the student is out of school. A respectable teacher would wait until then.


You are right about this..this isn't about teachers getting fired. But, if I was a teacher I wouldn't want to loose years of school to learn to be a teacher, plus countless amount of money involved in my degree just for a relationship with a student which might or might not last.

It actually depends on the type of crime and the intent behind it, the age of the defendant and the history of the defendant. The youngest a child can be tried as an adult in most states is twelve.

Here is a story about a 16 year old being charged as a juvenile

This is true, that's why they say never work for your family.

And I don't take any thing...anyone takes personally. We all get into the heat of the moment and say things that either don't make sense or are really how we don't feel. We are imperfect humans who make mistakes. It is when you can't admit that you where wrong is when you become a douche. So I try to admit when I am wrong...>_>

Sorry, I should have specified, I meant a 16 year old will get tried as an adult for something that would send him to prison. Also, any adult would very likely have the same outcome in sentencing as that 16 year old did. Manslaughter is unintentional and when it comes to vehicular manslaughter...there are just so many things that can be used to the defendants...defense. I guess I should refine it to "at the age of 16, there is an extremely high chance you will be tried as an adult" Either way, it still holds to my argument, as a 16 year old CAN be tried as an adult, hey look, you even support this theory at saying people as young as 12 can be. (I've also heard of this) My point was that there are different levels of "adulthood" in different areas of society.

Also, I stated why you were contradicting yourself, and I stand by it. You originally stated that a teacher has no business with a student under the age of 18, then you went to change it to "even if they are 18 it's inappropriate". It just seems like you're changing your story/side.

Also...as to working for your family...I don't see how that agrees with my statement in any way. I don't see how pushing someone to do their best is a bad thing. I used to work for my family before I moved, it was perfectly fine, great actually. We were constantly pushing each other to do better and giving each other ideas on how to do so. We were harder on each other when we failed, but that's not exactly a bad thing.

That is the same, a student who is eighteen should not have a relationship with a teacher. That is what I said. Each sentence is just in different words. Same meaning, different words. It would have been contradicting if I said in the second sentence that a eighteen year old is okay to sleep with their teacher.

What I meant by that is that families push you to do your best, and in most instances when you work for family it doesn't end up good. I know a lot of instances where it doesn't end up good. That is why they don't allow family to work together where one is ahead of the other.
It might of worked well with you, your family might be an exception to this, there are some that are. I am just saying that the rule of thumb is you never borrow (a lot)money from family or work for them.

Kollej! :D

Sorry... needed a humor moment in this serious discussion. Also, please everyone, remember to be polite and respectful! You ALL have very valid and justified points, and it's very interesting to hear them all :)

It was a contradiction because you originally said minors and then changed it to anyone who was in school. Not a complete contradiction, but you did change what you said, they were not the same thing.

Who are "they" and why don't they allow families who are ahead to work together? Honestly, I don't know what you're trying to say here. If you mean they aren't allowed to work together when one has a higher position than the other, I would like to know who "they" are who told you this because it is complete crap. Me and my sisters, when we worked together, we're all at different "authority" levels. My youngest sister was a busser (it was a restaurant), I was a bit above her being the hostess and our middle sister was above me being a bartender/waitress. Where I work now there a plenty of family members who work together. I work in fast food and two of our managers are sisters, one is a higher ranking manager than the other, there have never been any issues. My roommate works with me, we've never had any issues. Her mother is also a manager and her father is the district manager (he overlooks the stores in the area). Her brother is also an employee there as well. No issues and they've been working there for a long time. My other roommate works on cars with his dad, his dad's brother (my roommates uncle) is the manager there. Never any issues. Me and my ex used to work together, I actually got hired because of him, we never had any issues and we ALWAYS worked together. Me and my current boyfriend also used to work together. I worked at a laundry mat during the summer a few years ago, there were two brothers that worked together and did just fine.

I could give you a hundred more examples where family members/people living together/people dating work together without there being any personal issues, without there being any issues in the workplace, and without the managers having any issue with it.

So, again, who are "they" that say it isn't allowed?

Oh, well I am sorry >_< I didn't mean to contradict myself. ... I guess my brain was somewhere else.

Target(along with most retail stores) will not allow married or dating partners to work ahead of each other IE:

Spouse1: Manager/Spouse 2: cashier/floor

Rental Car companies: the same

Restaurants, I know they allow multi posted family members to work together..so I should of been 100% clear..I apologize. My husband worked for his mom (manager) at a Baskin Robbins when he was younger.

I think it is mainly most retail stores and again, rental car companies...I worked both types. I currently work in a rental car company. That's how I know...you can still work WITH your family, just as long as they do not get promoted above you.

I know about target, I had two friends who were dating and he got promoted to head of the electronics, and she was supposed to be getting promoted to head of the photography section, but she got fired anyways. I think it's stupid anyone should loose their job because their spouse, whom they work with, got a promotion, especially when they work on opposite sides of the store and their departments have nothing to do with each other.

I'll take your word on the rental car companies, I don't know about that personally. I know that airports have absolutely NO problem with it though. Not all retail has an issue with it either, my sisters ex-boyfriend was a manager at American Eagle and he got her the job there.

Again though, this is the companies/business's choice. This isn't a legal matter. It would be up to each individual school on how they would take action. From my personal experience, working under someone you are dating isn't an issue. Of course, there are always certain cases, but I don't think that has anything to do with the authority involved, just personal issues between the couple. You might think it's "inappropriate" but that's not really our decision. As it is legal, it really just depends on the schools decision. If that had happened at my school, I know that teacher would NOT loose their job. We had a teacher who was removed from school property twice for being drunk and she never lost her job, she also attacked one of her daughters friends outside of school. (slammed her against a wall). There was another teacher that during school a kid gave him the finger and the teacher slammed hi against the wall, he never lost his job. I personally, at the age of 15, was dating someone who was 19 (he was still in school). The school took no legal actions, they just sat us down and said we were only allowed to hold hands, no kissing etc etc. That right there was illegal for him to be dating me, but the school took no action (though they should have). I doubt the school would take action against a teacher who is doing nothing illegal just because some people might think it's inappropriate. Of course, I think that the teacher should be monitored to make sure they aren't giving the student special treatment, even though I don't believe they would.

Also, fabby, I gave other examples of when people were dating that it wasn't an issue. The majority of the time, it isn't, it's very select few places that will make a deal out of it.

@ Shalandriel

You make a good argument, I will say that. You are right...it shouldn't be the school's business about rather a teacher and a student has a relationship. If the student is of age.

I don't know about airlines and airports. I know some people who work for Delta and are dating. I don't know about their level status in the airlines.

I had two friends who were dating working for Midwest. She was in baggage and he jsut stocked the planes, she outranked him. No one gave two shits.

I understand that the teacher might loose their job because parents could make a big deal out of it. They wouldn't want their kids in an environment where a teacher may start dating their child. Even if the kid is 18, parents would make a huge deal if that teacher wasn't fired. I think this is the main reasoning behind a teacher loosing their position in this kind of situation.

I think as long as the student is 18 and *not in the teacher's classroom*, then there shouldn't be any problem morally with it. I can understand why the school would not like it, but as long as they didn't flaunt it, it would likely be overlooked.

I say not in the teacher's classroom because, even if not EVERY, or even not the MAJORITY of teachers would intend to, being romantically involved with someone inevitably changes how you think of that person. When someone goes from being a 'student' to a 'significant other', there is no way that that would NOT affect the relationship in the classroom. I am not at all saying that grades would be altered, but it would remove the objectivity of the teacher and just make it difficult to be sure that his emotions were not clouding his judgment when grading.

I hate how the media portray some of these teachers as predators -- when I was in school it was the other way around, with girls competing for the young male teachers' attentions.

I don't even have an issue when there's an age difference... my boyfriend is substantially older than I. Lots of people say those relationships never last but we've been together 3 years and are still going strong :-)

Haha, well...I'll give you a point of view from a younger person, I suppose...I'm 13 girl in 8th grade and I absolutely adore my 6th grade science teacher who is female. Not in the "oh-i-love-you-so-much-that-i-want-to-marry-you" kind of love, something along the lines of the "i love you as a friend" kind of love because we are almost completely alike despite the fact that she loves country music and i love pop music (i hate country, i'm sorry to all those country fans) we share secrets, do favors for each other (which we totally love because it's just less work for both of us), and keep each other up to date, she's 53, go figures. but supposably it is against school policy to be friends with a teacher, but i find it perfectly workable. i can see how it wouldn't, such as the teacher is a pedophile, but in my case I think it would be fine :) why not?

They need to wait until the student/teacher relationship has ended. Then they can start up the romantic relationship...BUT sometimes one thing just leads to another thing...I think sometimes love cannot be planned. As long as they are responsible about this, I don't think it's a problem if both are adults.