Just to clarify, not every abortion stops a beating heart.

People have such a glorified and romanticized vision of adoption. If we're going to go with the anecdotal evidence of as fact, then I'll submit that I've known at least a dozen foster families that are overburdened because the system simply has more children than adoptive parents.

So, before forcing a pregnancy on a scared kid (or a scared adult, age isn't relevant to readiness) because "adoption is always an option" I'd personally rather see a few more abortions and a few less ruined children.

1) Abortions happen before then. Hence why you said "most."

2) Abortions of non-viable fetuses may not stop a beating heart either (due to developmental conditions outside of anyone's control, such as biological defects).

So no, not "every" abortion stops a beating heart.

Searching through most of what I kept from my previous pregnancy as far as research material goes, according to everything I have, the heart starts beating 21 days after fertilzation. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Adoption is letting the fetus be born, abortion is not.

The foster system and the adoption system are two separate things. Now a foster parent can adopt a foster child, but most families in the foster system are more or less transitional houses for kids taken by the state. You're right, it is an overburdened system, and I wish it wasn't.

Agreed. I'm not arguing with you on that, because you're right. But in the case that the fetus is healthy, abortion does stop a beating heart.

Having an abortion IS taking responsibility for your actions. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not right. Let's remember - the world is revolving around you and your desires.

How are you not being selfish? You want to force women into something against their will while ignoring their rights and feelings, and justify with nothing other than your own morality. Is that selfless, to force people to live by your morality for nothing other than appeasing your own morality?

I'm still waiting for someone to clarify this for me.

How does adoption solve an unwanted PREGNANCY?

Maybe I should do some clarifying of my own. A Pregnancy means that for 9 months you are not in control of your own body. You will be forced to rely on others. And at some point you will be removed from school and/or work, which means lose of education, lose of income. Pregnant women are not advised to work the last 2 months of pregnancy. Underprivileged women push this as long as they can, but when your boss at Burger King sees you can't use the deep fryer anymore cause your belly gets in the way, he's going to tell you to go home.

No job means no income, no income means no way to care for yourself. If you've got someone to take care of you, great. but in that case, you're less likely to be looking at abortion or adoption options.

Pregnancy can mean lose of family. It CAN mean the lose of your home if you are kicked out, be it parents or a partner.

Then there are bills. Medical bills, which may or not be paid by the state.

And THEN you have the fact that women are HUMAN, and giving up a child that you have felt moving and you ALONE have been caring for for 9 months is an emotional process.. the trauma of giving a BABY up is much greater then giving up a fetus. Yes, it's selfish; So what. I'm allowed to be selfish with MY body, so is every other person on this earth.

So I'm still waiting. How does choosing adoption solve an unwanted pregnancy?

Honestly, Good_Kid, if you can't PROVIDE any of these "sources" you don't have an argument. My sister has had an abortion and just had a baby 3 months ago. From what I "know" from my "sources" the heart doesn't develop until about 6 weeks. You're just doing "he said/she said". Just because you say you've read this doesn't make it true. Find us some non-biased sources! :D

I have to agree with Fabby. A heart does NOT = life. Take jellyfish for an example. Plants are living, they don't have hearts. What about people with artificial hearts? Are they no longer human? By your definition they wouldn't be.

Because it has a heart suddenly makes it a person? Even if they can't feel anything? The BRAIN is what makes it so we feel ANYTHING. If a person is completely brain dead, from what I know, they are officially dead. So, if a fetus doesn't have a brain yet, would it technically even be "alive"? That's not exactly how I mean it, but I'm not sure how to say it. They are a living being, but they aren't a person.

Having an abortion is taking responsibility. Continuing your way of life to the point where you put yourself in that situation again isn't responsible but that's a different debate altogether. If you are unable to care for the child, that would be responsible to not have it. If you were a victim of rape, it wouldn't be fair to bring a child into the world to have them know that they were unwanted. It might be "selfish" but why does responsibility have to be selfless? They are not the same thing. It IS selfish to expect other women to give up their lives and put their own bodies at risk for something that they don't even want because it goes against YOUR morals to abort. So. Even if an abortion IS selfish, YOU are a hypocrite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiAyaii (Post 1765729366) Personally, I am Pro-Choice. That doesn't mean I like the fact that people get abortions, but what I always is "It's your body, your decisions."

Me too, though I don't like the whole abortion thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiAyaii (Post 1765729366) People who walk around tell other women how to have children need to stop. It is NOT their decision. You take responsibility for your own body, and your own life. NOT someone else.

Again, I agree for the most part, though if women want responsibility for their own body, they should really be more responsible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiAyaii (Post 1765729366) Since girls are starting their periods at younger ages now, say a 11-12 year old has had their period. What if she gets raped? And then becomes pregnant? Can you really expect a small girl like that to go through all the pain and mental strength to have a child?

I really love how the rape factor is constantly used in this abortion argument. It's actually quite amusing. Not the rape itself, but more that rape is one of the main concerns for an abortion. Lets get some things straight here. I doubt even 10% of abortions done a year are because of rape. Probably not even 5%, but that's beside the point. Pretty sad that it is used as a major point when deciding if an abortion is the proper thing to do.

Again, like I said earlier, if women want to have responsibility for their bodies, then they need to put the blame where it belongs. Like you stated, girls are getting their periods earlier than normal. Because of this we see an influx in unwanted pregnancies. Is this solely because of all the horrible pedofile rapists out there? Hell No. It is because of the horny little preteen/teen girls that want to have a penis shoved into them. Is it always the horny little girl? No, it is also the horny little boys that want to wet their dicks as well to be cool and popular in front of all their macho guy friends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiAyaii (Post 1765729366) That's when abortions make sense to me. Or if you were being careful during the sex anyways, but something went wrong. Or, if the child is merely going to grow up in a bad environment, or you yourself cannot handle the child and take care of it's needs.

If you truly are being careful, then again, it is a very minimal possibility that you will get pregnant. Fact of the matter is, is that most "unwanted pregnancies" occur because of immature, naive, horny people who aren't careful having sex without caution. It may be responsible to have an abortion if you cannot take care of the child and own up to that fact and admit you made a mistake. However, it is not an excuse for having an abortion. You are having the abortion because you were stupid. The few pregnancies that happen besides the stupidity factor humans have, I have no problem with. But again that is a minority, and when does minority statistics overrule the majority of statistics in making decisions and doing research?

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiAyaii (Post 1765729366) But, if you are old enough and can support the child, you have a little less of an excuse as to why you are getting an abortion. But, it would still be your decision. If you just look at women who are going to or have gotten an abortion as "Murderers" or "Bad People," you obviously don't look at them for who they really are.

I look at them as being stupid for having to get an abortion in the first place, again placing an exception on the 10% or so pregnancies that aren't created by stupidity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiAyaii (Post 1765729366) And, going back to my main point, it's NOT someone else decision, and others need to stay out of peoples personal lives, especially when it comes to private matters like pregnancy and abortions.

Not someone else's decision, nor is it anyone else's fault or responsibility. People should own up to their stupid mistakes and learn from them. Blaming minor reasons for pregnancy is in no way putting the blame where it belongs, so be mature and take ownership of your abortion if you choose to engage in the action of aborting.

@Kris and anyone else who say that women should have rights to their body: Since when does any human have a right to their body? From the last I heard it is illegal to commit suicide. If you have a so called right to your body, then suicide should be allowed just as much as abortion is.

NOTE to person I quoted: This was by no means an attack on you, but more along the lines of a way to enter into the conversation. Most of what you said personally I agree with, so do not take my quoting you, personally, as it was more geared towards the excuse makers in this thread.

How is having an abortion irresponsible?
Honestly, I think it's funny that you call these women irresponsible and you like to make the claim that most of them are teenagers.
According to the Guttmacher Institute, 56% of women having abortions are in their 20s and 61% have one or more children.

I think it's much more responsible for these women to have an abortion than to have a pregnancy that they do not want or cannot deal with, and bringing a child into this world that they have no intention to care for. That is the epitome of selfish and inconsiderate, not having an abortion.

Honey, don't you know it's not wise to talk about things you don't know and make things up?
Also according to the Guttmacher Institute, 54% of abortions were done while women were using birth control. So, next time, do research and speak the truth, or don't speak at all.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

I think making up statistics is stupid, but I'm not trying to take away your rights.

I don't think that should be illegal, either. But this is a different situation and a different debate.

1. I was quoting another person who used little kids as an excuse to bring rape into the equation. I personally never claimed that most abortions are done by teenagers.

2. I never claimed abortion itself was irresponsible.

3. Get your own facts straight. 50%of abortions are women under 25. 33% are ages 20-24, the other 17% are teenagers. Quit taking random numbers and posting them as you see fit. as quoted by your source, look below.

Yep, it is responsible to not make the child live through your own stupidity of getting pregnant in the first place. I don't fault you for that. I will fault you however, for using abortion as an excuse to be irresponsible rather than an explanation of how you were responsible after the fact.

Again, taking things out of context and trying to debate with someone who makes sure you actually know what you're talking about is not a good combination. You should know by now that I look into all points of an argument and when a legit source is provided I will make sure it is being cited properly by the one that is using it. I will now bold the things below that show your argument is invalid in the statistics of birth control. Quit using the "women are for the most part careful and still get pregnant crap, as from what I see below, my estimated value of 10% is much closer to the correct 13-14% which is quoted rather than your assumption that 54% is the correct statistical number who correctly use methods of birth control.

NOTE: Birth control that is used, but is not being used correctly, is not responsible, sorry.



It is stupid to make statistics up, though I was almost right on the mark with my estimate that 10% are caused by a combination of rape and or responsible contraceptive use. So I doubt that can be severely used against me. It is even more stupid to use a source, but then not use it correctly and just throw out random misguiding numbers and statistics to support your cause like you decided to do.


Then we agree with this particular topic. I also agree that suicide should be completely legal. However our American society and the majority of influential Americans do not, so therefore we must conform.

Alright before I say anything else a woman has the right to choose what happens with her body no matter the circumstances(Responsible or not). I'm pro-life, if I were to get pregnant I'd keep the baby unless it was life threatening but I have that choice. I have no problem with abortions. Sure these women could raise that child or put them up for adoption but there are still those nine monthes that the baby is sitting in their womb and if abortion were illegal they'd find other means to get rid of that child. Less safe ways. The child is innocent but it wouldn't be any the wiser. Granted that woman should exhaust every other resource before deciding to abort it. Also the man who helped should have some say as that is his child too but, ultimately, it isn't his choice.

Yes humans make mistakes. Yes, humans murder under emotional stress, yes people judge unfairly and get away with it, yes a woman forgets to take a pill or a guy/girl forgets to wear a condom. It is still irresponsible at that time regardless of the consequences that happen after the fact. No one is asking you to be perfect, all I, personally, am asking is that you take ownership of your imperfection rather than rely on overused arguments to defend your cause.
Something along the lines of, "Yes, I am human and made a mistake, to take care of this mistake I made in a responsible manner, I had an abortion. I admit it was my or my partner's fault (except for the exceptional perfect protection cases and/or rape) that I got pregnant in the first place and I/he/we take full responsibility for having to perform an abortion to 'correct' our mistake."

I grow tired of people pushing blame on other people, things, etc instead of taking responsibility/ownership for their own actions whether they are positive or negative in theory. I also grow tired of people misusing statistics to suit their own purpose and put themselves in the "right." instead of thinking about things in a logical manner and taking ownership and putting the blame where it truly belongs.

Sen: I know x.x and they end up not being able to have kids anymore if not worse :/

I'm for Pro-life, however, there are a couple circumstances like rape but other than that...so abortion should be around, but don't get irresponsible with it such as having sex at 12 and getting pregnant and then abortion, people should know better than to have sex that young!

Why shouldn't 12 year olds have sex? If they are not supposed to, why are their bodies capable of it? We put too much limit on age as a society. If we did not live in an industrialized world where you have to have a job and a bunch of currency to survive there would be no need for this age limit. People would instead grow their own food, make their own clothes, and build their own houses in order to survive. A 12 year old can be quite capable of helping with these things at the least. A baby would not make a difference.

For those who did not wish to have children, or go through pregnancy, then the option should be available to kill the organism as everything has the right to try and survive. Nothing has the right to survive. So killing a fetus would just be showing the superiority of the human to the fetus. It is completely natural and should be accepted. It is just like killing an insect. If the insect cannot escape, then it dies. If the fetus cannot withstand the killing blow, then it dies.

But why should the 12 year olds be able to, inthis society? right now we do live in an industrialized world so we do need our education to survive. well, then again it's not me facing the difficulties of having to get a job and education and possibly getting disowned by parental units. By the way, by the way you word this, you seem to see that a fetus is not human. However the fetus is the basic structure of the human, so basically it is human. Once the sperm and the egg "unite" the human genes and characteristics are already determined, unless altered by a surgeon. And why would you kill the fetus to show superiority toward it? It's not like you are gaining anything from that satisfaction. life is so complicated

Yes, unfortunately we do require industry to survive. Sadly enough. However, that is the only reason why 12 year olds cannot procreate. That and the fact that United States was founded on the Christian Religion. In any case, everything living is an organism. A human fetus is a non developed human parasite. If the human whose body the parasite is living off of wants to be rid of the parasite, then they will kill the parasite. There is nothing wrong with this. You do not kill it to show superiority, you kill it because you are able to, because you are superior to it. Your superiority only gives you the ability to kill it if you so choose.

yes it is a human parasite according to definition: an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment. however also according to another definition of parasite: a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others. I'm sure that using this definition, I could say that all people were once parasites to their guardian/parental units. So if we can kill the fetus, then we can kill children? Or those who depend on parents?