Originally Posted by Teh Toaster Basher

@silenttiger43: I understand what you're saying, but with the last part I have to disagree with.

The government has a valid point for banning it, and it's their country, so they should. Since it has a valid point, I see no good reason for it to being taken away. If someone who lives in the nation doesn't agree with the laws, then what the heck are they doing living there? People have free will, so you can always move to another country in which you agree with the laws. Some people may not afford it, but that could be their fault for not picking a good career or job, and/or spending to much money. As it was their fault, they would have to save up and wait, and for the meantime, tolerate the country's laws. If they're too lazy, that's their own problem. By staying in a country, you're agreeing to all the laws. Unless, it's something stupid like USA's health system that can be changed, you can stay there, and vote for the rights of a better health system, and such. Although, staying in a country, and bitching about its laws because they want to promote bad health isn't any good.

So, a government can control a huge amount of expanse of land and control anything in it? You are forgetting that a society is made up of the population as well as the government. The population has the power to overturn the government if need be, or supposedly they do. However, the Earth is limited, and people should be able to live how they choose. This is why I promote anarchist society. Preferably a primitivist anarchist society, but I won't be too picky.

@Tutela de Xaoc: I already stated it, if something stupid is going on, the population has every right to vote if off. Of course society can overthrow the government if they absolutely hate it, or just change it the way to the way it needs to be. I'm just saying that if a law that comes across like the 'no smoking' one, then people shouldn't get too upset about it. People are forgetting that no matter how 'impossible' it seems to break off the addiction to smoking that it is possible. It's the cigarette packs and laziness that are talking, in the end, everything's going to be alright. For that law, I strongly agree with it.

Originally Posted by Teh Toaster Basher

@Tutela de Xaoc: I already stated it, if something stupid is going on, the population has every right to vote if off. Of course society can overthrow the government if they absolutely hate it, or just change it the way to the way it needs to be. I'm just saying that if a law that comes across like the 'no smoking' one, then people shouldn't get too upset about it. People are forgetting that no matter how 'impossible' it seems to break off the addiction to smoking that it is possible. It's the cigarette packs and laziness that are talking, in the end, everything's going to be alright. For that law, I strongly agree with it.

Let me ask you why you agree with it, so I can see where you are coming from and thus debate you properly?

I agree with it because I don't believe in letting people damage their health, and considering that making them 'happy'. I don't like seeing people sick, or anything like that. It makes me sad. So, when a law like that comes around, I think it's great, because it will help some people in the very least. Of course most will break the law, but it will help some people, so that's why I support it.

Originally Posted by Teh Toaster Basher

I agree with it because I don't believe in letting people damage their health, and considering that making them 'happy'. I don't like seeing people sick, or anything like that. It makes me sad. So, when a law like that comes around, I think it's great, because it will help some people in the very least. Of course most will break the law, but it will help some people, so that's why I support it.

So, the banning of all fast food and even meat would be something you support? As Vegans tend to be more healthy by sticking to their strict diet. Watching T.V. and Internet surfing are also extremely unhealthy compared to taking walks outside and exercising while breathing the fresh air. Should those be banned too? How about all the chemicals we use that influence our appearance but are inherently unhealthy to our bodies? Should we ban all that as well? Or are cigarettes the only exception you make on this matter.

@ Tutela de Xaoc I definately agree with you on these points. I don't mean to gang up on you Teh Toaster Basher I definitely understand where you're coming from and I greatly dislike smoking. It isn't fun watching my grandfather cough himself steadily to death, and then take another puff of his cigarette; but you know what? It makes him happy, he has been smoking since he was nine years old and it isn't going to make a difference now.

As much as I hate saying this, eventually this smoking thing is going to kill itself off. The government is taking steps to getting people to quit. Even my school is sponsoring an event that hands out cash prizes to people who successfully quit by a certain date. I think it's being handled properly, one step at a time making it just a hassle to be a smoker meanwhile rewarding those who stop.

@ Tutela: VERY good argument.

@Teh Toaster Basher: I also despise smoking. I cannot be around it for a second without hacking up a lung. I would LOVE to make it completely illegal. I wish that I never had to breathe in a particle of the toxic smoke again, HOWEVER. . .have you ever studied the Prohibition act of the 1920s? The government banned all alcohol except for strict medical purposes from the year 1920-1933. Now, arguably alcohol is a far worse drug than nicotine is, and the government banned it because of several movements to do so on the premise that it was bad for the public.

The Prohibition caused the invention of mobsters, gangs, and bootleggers that sold alcohol illegally. Mobsters, as most know, terrorized America during the 1920's and beyond. Mostly because alcohol was banned. Things didn't even begin to get better until President Roosevelt finally ratified the amendment, that had banned alcohol, in 1933. All in all, the government couldn't enforce their own law. It was impossible.

Take this situation and apply it to today. If the government were to ban smoking, how would they enforce this? Would it create more violence (because we really need that...)? Also consider the fact that the population of the U.S. is three times the size that it was in 1920. That makes the law three times harder to enforce.

Banning smoking would create more of a disaster than it would a solution.

Overall, I agree that smoking is unnecessary to the Nth degree, but making a complete law against it would never work. We'd just be repeating history.

If smoking is to ever disappear, it's never going to be because of a law.

@ ElysiumFate

I truly wish I knew as much about history as you! Such information is vital to learn because as they say, if you don't learn from your history then you are doomed to repeat it. I think this instance is very similar to that of the alcohol problem back then and I have little doubt that things would end up any differently from then as well. Banning smoking just will not work.

Originally Posted by silenttiger43

@ ElysiumFate

I truly wish I knew as much about history as you! Such information is vital to learn because as they say, if you don't learn from your history then you are doomed to repeat it. I think this instance is very similar to that of the alcohol problem back then and I have little doubt that things would end up any differently from then as well. Banning smoking just will not work.

Eh. I don't know that much about history ^_^. That was just forced into my head three times in three different history classes, lol.

Anyway, we do need to know about history for fear of repeating it. That's what I'm going for with the Prohibition argument.

I believe the only thing we can do to get rid of smoking is to discourage it. (Which we have been doing for a few years now) Nobody likes to be told what to do. And, on the note of discouraging smoking...almost everyone who has had any sort of schooling whatsoever has been shown the blackened lungs from a dead smoker or pig that was forced to inhale smoke until its death. Suffice it to say that most people know the effects of smoking. Those who participate in it just don't care or are brainwashed by the nicotine into thinking that they can't stop.

It is those smokers that have no sense of other people's health that bother me. Second hand smoke KILLS. So, a message to all smokers: please, don't expose innocents to your life-sucking habit.

I haven't met many smokers who just don't care about other people. Everyone I know will go out of their way to accommodate my health as a non-smoker and I'm quite grateful for that. In return I prefer to respect their decision and not bother them about facts and figures they have already heard a million times over. The most I will say to go into it might be "I really wish you would quit but in the mean time please don't smoke around me." Honestly if you are polite to people, quite often they will respect that and return your kind attitude.

@silenttiger43: I have, so you're lucky. I've seen some pretty idiotic smokers too, who smoke next to gas pumps just to disobey the law even though doing so is obviously dangerous.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling smokers stupid or mean, I'm just saying that I've met the people that you haven't.

O.O Smoking by the gas pumps?! Is that just an example you made up or is that true?! That is horrendously disturbing! They could cause a massive explosion, people would be dead all over the place; who is stupid enough to pull something like that?!

I have seen the occasional smoker who breaks the rules and stands where they aren't supposed to. However for the most part they are fairly well behaved. Where about do you live? If you don't mind me asking. I'm in Ontario, Canada. I'm just curious to see if perhaps that is part of the difference in attitude. People of different countries, understandably act different. Even between America and Canada. They are so close and so similar in many ways, yet we can almost always tell the difference between ourselves.

Not a made up example, I'm afraid.

I live in the western U.S., however: I believe I saw the smokers at the gas pump in the south U.S. rather than my home town. The South hasn't changed all that much since the Civil War, and (this is a generalization, I warn) whilst there are strange people all over the U.S., a good deal of them live down South. An old acquaintance of mine spent a lot of time in the South (she is a native) and she was always talking about how pigheaded the southerners are...and about how racism still runs rampant there. *Shrugs* No nation is perfect.

Smoke in your own private time, not around me. I got bronchitis because idiots wouldn't stop smoking around me when I was little. Every day I take the bus, there are 5 idiots that insist on smoking on every side of the waiting box and even inside next to me. I don't care if you walk by me and you're smoking. Do not sit next to me with one of those things. I'm sure others have got some sort of illness from involuntary secondhand smoke as well. Many people don't even think secondhand affects anyone.

Also, on freedom, there is a limit set. You have the right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness as long as it doesn't affect someone else's life to an extreme which they are injured in any way. This is why there are such laws for assault and certain religious practices. I am protected to be happy and healthy just as much as you are.

@ drachenlady

I definitely agree with you. As long as it doesn't effect other people, people can do as they wish to themselves. That is very stupid that people insist upon smoking so near you, especially when you have bronchitis! That is pure cruelty and if I was there to see these people doing that to you I would march right up and make them stop!

Have you tried politely asking them to move? I know it's hard to be polite to people that are pissing you off and hindering your health but being curt or generally rude won't make them move. I really hope they do listen.

I would fully support the banning of smoking. What good does it do to other people? Seriously, most people who smoke die at an earlier age, and cancer is commonly involved. Its not a huge help to none smokers either, just being around other smokers can do damage. Not to mention the money put into to treat lung cancer, and other illnesses caused by smoking. Its not like noone is aware of that, but still. And in all honesty, its one of those addicting things that have to force yourself to like. You're body doesnt react to smoke entering you're lungs as a natural thing. Which is a huge hint to NOT smoke.

I sure as heck hope its banned someday. What a waste of money and lives. It would be better if it didn't exist. Find better additions.

So please be very specific, exactly how does smoking give you pleasure? I'm sure the first time ANYONE smoked, it caused them to cough and feel very uncomfortable in the lungs, plus It just smells awful, so really? Whats the big deal?

Smoking should be banned. Harmful to the smoker and those around him/her. Plus it freaking reeks.

@silenttiger43 They don't know about my bronchitis, I can't expect strangers to know anyhow. It really is hard for me to ask because 2 of those who wait at the bus are addicted smokers and complain when they only have had 2 cigarettes that day. One of which is in my class at the college. Besides, my sister used to take cigarettes away from smokers, she claimed one burned her in the face with a cigarette. It seems like if I take away their cigarettes, they will harm me in some other way, shape, or form.

Most people are reasonable if you are. If you explain to them why you wish they wouldn't smoke near you I see no reason why they wouldn't move.

Of course I can't tell you what to do, I simply wish that you would. I hate to think of anyone being too afraid to stand up for their own health. Not to mention you aren't taking away their cigarettes or stopping them from smoking completely, just asking that they don't smoke around you.

@drachenlady: You know, as much as I really hate smoking (and really the whole problem would be solved if there ever does come a ban.) All you have to do is ask, althought it is understandable to want not want to be around them. But instead of just putting up with it, tell them your problem. Dont be impolite about that because that really might bring to some violence out of them. And for crying out loud, I'm not sure exactly what you meant by "taking away their ciggaretts", but seriously. Dont do that. That right there is asking for trouble.

All you have to do is ask them, if they say no, stand move away from them. I'm sure if they're decent enought, they'll understand. I know its inconvienient, but I have to do the same freaking thing every morning at my school bus stop, its not fun.

@ MidnightWolve

I'm sorry, but the problem would not be solved simply by banning it. Many things are banned from this country, many drugs in particular, yet people are not going to stop just because it's illegal. Marijuana and the like are still all over the place.

@silenttiger43: Yes, I am well aware of that, perhaps I miss phrased that. Of course there would be people who still smoke, although you wouldn't see as many people doing it, and you'd think if there was a ban in smoking that people wouldn't whip out a cigarette in public.

Heh, I still see people smoking pot in front of the public library.

I do see your point however, it would decrease significantly I think. However if they were to ban smoking they would have to give people a decent amount of time, provided with free anti-smoking aids in order to stop before the ban was in place.

Yeah, well it can be done in due time if it ever happens. Yeah, there are definitely idiots out there at the moment who will smoke on property when it clearly says not to...

@MidnightWolve: You do have a point. I really shouldn't put up with it, but I do feel downright scared of asking someone to stop smoking even if I am polite. Many who go a day without smoking are really on edge, if I asked them, I'm afraid they would just snap back at me. I'm actually just thinking of taking the later bus instead so I don't have to deal with them and get to class 10 minutes before my class starts. I do, however think that if I didn't do something these same smokers would just keep it up which just isn't good for anyone they're around.