Originally Posted by Philomel

I am polyamorous (please, please stop using "polyamory" and "polygamy" interchangeably), so yeah, I think it's fine. I wish I could pinpoint exactly why some people are capable of polyamory and others aren't, but I really haven't any idea. It isn't how emotionally attached people are -- I develop strong emotional attachments to my partners, but I know many non-polyamorists who do as well, and many polyamorists who do not. It's not necessarily based on culture or upbringing, either, though I think both have the potential to affect it.

I do have a question, for Tutela and whoever else has suggested it. Why are so many people acting as though love is an amount, like you only have "room" for so much, you have to divide it out, and so on? Love is entirely intangible. I see no reason why you cannot be completely, 100% in love with every person you're in a relationship with. It's like saying each person can only have *so much* hope, because they have to share with everyone else in the world.

I apologize for my misuse of the word. As for your question. I do not think it is a set amount, except for there being a whole. It is not measurable in a literal sense. However, I was only stating that people who have less of a capability to love are the ones that are going to most likely be the most successful at a polyamorous relationship. Mainly demonstrated in the example below:

A mother claims she loves all four of her children, or at least in her brain she has persuaded herself that she loves them all equally. Yet, the four kids feel very differently depending on the amount of time the mother spends with each, as well as the amount of attention each child receives.

This example can be compared to a polyamorous relationship as well. A lover has four others. The amount of love distributed is almost never equal between all four. Which means all four gain love in differing and varying amounts. A monogamous person, however, requires solo attention and love. A monogamous person is like a single child and a mother. The mother is able to devote all her love and attention to the single child. There is no competition, no wavering loyalties, no lack of love, etc.

So theoretically, a monogamous person would have to have much more capacity to love than a polyamorous person. Likewise, a polyamorous person, due to the splitting of attention and love between multiple partners, would not have to have as much of a capacity to love as the monogamous one to have a successful relationship. The more love a polyamorous person has, the more likely it will cease to be polyamorous as the love starts to focus on one single partner, while taking time away from the rest.

There is nothing wrong with loving more than one person, if infact everyone knows and is alright with the circumstances. If it works for you then it works.
Don't let people tell you how you should live your life.

However it does create a position for competitveness and or petty jelliousy.

I tried it once. It didn't work for myself.

You have to remember... Your not just dealing with one person's feelings your dealing with three. Don't be selfish.

I wasn't really referring to you, Tutela :P As far as I know, you haven't done such.

I would disagree with your theory, however. Giving attention is not synonymous with love. It does not function in the same way. As such, while it's certainly possible that you might develop a deeper or stronger relationship with one partner than with others (indeed, many start out this way; not all polyamorous relationships function the same way, after all), I don't see why that would necessarily be the case, or why it would be based on the amount of love a person has, as you put it (I still don't understand that system of measurement; you don't have "amounts" of love).

Originally Posted by Philomel

I do have a question, for Tutela and whoever else has suggested it.

LOLz, if you weren't referring to me, why address my name literally in your post? I was just answering your challenge as you know I love having the chance to debate with my original friends I made here ^^

Anyways,

Okay, I see what you are saying. However, I would say the most logical way to measure love (in order to define it at all), is the measurement of the qualities that are associated with love as a concept. Possession, Protection, Attention, Spending Time, etc. They are all included and can all be measured as compared to others, which makes for a theoretical measurement of how much love there is within a relationship. For example, a relationship where the attachment, possession, willingness to share with each other, and protection, aren't at its peak, problems and fights tend to erupt. If it gets bad enough, the couple separates since they feel no love for each other anymore. So, even though it is logically impossible to measure love, I believe there are still ways to theoretically measure it by observing the causes and effects the relationship has.

Is it wrong to love 2 or more people? Why? What would it take to make it right?

Normally I am against polygamy. But if you and your mates are completely happy and fine with it, then that is your choice.
Now I haven't researched or looked much into polygamy, but in my eyes, polygamy is wrong. I believe in devoting oneself to another and vice-versa. I would think problems like jealousy would arise but as long as the people involved don't have these problems and they are truly happy, then it is right in my eyes.
Love must be paired with happiness.

Personally, and this may come out extremely offensive to those polyamerous people out there, I think its a little slutty, sorry just saying it straight out. You can call me an idiot, debate with me as much as you want but thats what I feel.

Maybe it works for some people. But my personal strong opinion is that if its more then one person, its either loneliness, or sex. I would absolutely kill the person I am dating if he was dating another person besides me whether I am told of it or not.

Originally Posted by MidnightWolve

Personally, and this may come out extremely offensive to those polyamerous people out there, I think its a little slutty, sorry just saying it straight out. You can call me an idiot, debate with me as much as you want but thats what I feel.

Maybe it works for some people. But my personal strong opinion is that if its more then one person, its either loneliness, or sex. I would absolutely kill the person I am dating if he was dating another person besides me whether I am told of it or not.

Slut is only negatively viewed because society believes it is a wrong thing to be. However, the practice of sex, regardless of the amount or how it is done, is completely natural to the animals engaging in it. A slut is a social construction that really holds no valid meaning except that they like to experience intimacy with more than one animal. I am guessing that because the United States was built on the cornerstone of Christianity, that this is why society views sexual acts as horrid. Especially multiple sexual acts with multiple partners. However, Christianity only tells people what is right when they are Christians. Non-Christians are not limited in their conscience by the unnecessary censoring and decrease of pleasure within one's lifestyle.

I dont really care what you call it. Sooner or later, someone will get hurt. And I am going now. I don't feel like staying in this pointless debate. The bottom line is that I think its slutty. Whether you have a different view to "slut" is your opinion.

Peace out.

i myself, find that not a good thing. one is more than enough, but if you are happy with two or more then go for it. it`s the way you choose to go through life. people are gonna have to except it sooner or later.

Originally Posted by MidnightWolve

I dont really care what you call it. Sooner or later, someone will get hurt. And I am going now. I don't feel like staying in this pointless debate. The bottom line is that I think its slutty. Whether you have a different view to "slut" is your opinion.

Peace out.

If this is the case how do you account for the fact that they have existed in roughly 66% of all cultures? Surely this is more than a little too high for someone which is doomed to fail.

Originally Posted by MidnightWolve

I dont really care what you call it. Sooner or later, someone will get hurt. And I am going now. I don't feel like staying in this pointless debate. The bottom line is that I think its slutty. Whether you have a different view to "slut" is your opinion.

Peace out.

I think the same thing can be said about many monogamous relationships, can it not?
:)

I'm going to say what many people above have said, I'm sure. (I just skimmed the posts, I wasn't going to read three pages just for an avatar based debate forum ^_~)

Straight out: I'd kill my man if I ever found out that I wasn't the only person he "loved" romantically. Polygamy is just nasty to me. I won't apologize for my opinion.

I think that a debate of the word "love" needs to be brought up here, though, since the word is so multi-faceted.

For example, I don't necessarily believe that it is possible to love more than one person romantically (husband and wife kind of devotion) at a time. I think there's a limit on that one. It's possible to love several people at once, however, as friends.

In the end, I honestly just don't understand polygamy, and I just see this subject from my point of view, so I admit to its bias. I still hold to my beliefs though.

Ok, i'm gonna make a little apearance here hoping to help a little with this debate.

Nobody in the universe loves just one person.

Love is actually a simple feeling i believe, and people has a way to make it complicate. I believe Love can be given to lots of people during ones lifetime. I love my girlfriend and i loive my friends, i love my mother. The fact that all these relationships are diferent doesn't make diferent kinds of love.

I've been involved in loving relationships with more than one person. And i've found that love it's not the problem, for i loved them both. The problem existed once they found out they didn't loved each other.

Here's what i mean, (names are not real, they're just for the example) I love July and Jenny at the same time. But i can't force July to love Jenny or either way. In this case, i'm stuck between to girls that love me, but don't feel anything for each other.
For this relationship to work, i can't just love two people, but this two people should love each other as they love me. It would be unfair otherwise.

If this doesn't happen, the one in the middle faces a very natural thing to happen, competition. The couples will most surely compete for your love and atention, this is something very uncomfortable i think.

Now, i believe that one can love with great passion and intensiity two people at the same time, even three or four. because love it's nothing but a result of a good relation. If i feel joy being with someone and this someone feels joy around me there are enough reasons to love.
Now, i don't believe in some sort of special love, i believe the feeling i have for my friends is the same i have for my girlfriend or boyfriend. What changes is the depth of the relationship. Yet, you can love someone more and someone less, yet that doesn't mean that you have some ammount of love inside you that will be spent in how many people you love.

it never worked for me,, personally. cause we end up hurting each other so bad that since that day, i vow never to get involve with someone who likes having two people at once.... it really hurts though.
but if it works for you then.. wow! thats just amazing! ^^

Originally Posted by ElysiumFate

Straight out: I'd kill my man if I ever found out that I wasn't the only person he "loved" romantically. Polygamy is just nasty to me. I won't apologize for my opinion.

Firstly it is worth noting that I would not really classify that as a polygamous relationship. Indeed that would be called cheating. As in order to be a polygamous relationship, at the very least it requires all those involved to be aware of the others involved.

As for your opinion, not wishing to be in one is a perfectly fine acceptable. As relationships and kinship systems are culturally defined concepts. The way a person perceives them will greatly reflect their cultural perspectives. Much like I would argue it is important to understand polygamous relationships in their own context, it is important for people to acknowledge the cultural context of your relationship perspectives.

Originally Posted by ElysiumFate

I think that a debate of the word "love" needs to be brought up here, though, since the word is so multi-faceted.

On this point, I am not entirely convinced. In saying that, it can provide some level of interest. Although it is certainly worth noting that not all cultures acknowledge and recognize love as being a prerequisite for relationships. Indeed it is in the minority of cultures that romantic love is a prerequisite. Although take these words with salt, as different cultures understand 'love' in different ways.

Originally Posted by ElysiumFate

In the end, I honestly just don't understand polygamy, and I just see this subject from my point of view, so I admit to its bias. I still hold to my beliefs though.

At the end of the day everyone has their biases. After all, we all have our culturally defined understandings of the world. Post Modern anthropology even extends this to include our personal histories as building upon this. That you actively identify and embrace your bias is highly encouraging however. Perhaps there is potential for you in anthropology?

I'm going to be really honest with you people. I was in a relationship for a year with a girl. And you know what? It turned out after a year she told me she was also dating someone else. Do you know how fcking wrong it feels to be cuddling with your partner and ANOTHER person along with? So yes, I am anti-poly. It DOES end up hurting you in the end. If you really want to SHARE your lover with another person then do it. But to be honest, I broke up with the idiot.

The bottom line: IT IS WRONG. I wont take back what I said, or apologize. Maybe there are healthy polygamy relationships and more freaking power to you, but to me, it is screaming SLUT and HEARTBREAK at every level. Perhaps its because of bad experience. But I wont change my mind on how I feel about it.

If you feel you need to love more then one person, or be loved more then one person, you need help. Sorry, but people who really need so many people to love or to be loved needs help. Go to a psychologist if you really feel that way.

Originally Posted by MidnightWolve

I dont really care what you call it. Sooner or later, someone will get hurt. And I am going now. I don't feel like staying in this pointless debate. The bottom line is that I think its slutty. Whether you have a different view to "slut" is your opinion.

Peace out.

While you say they will get hurt, not all relationships work the same way. me and my 2 partners are 100% open with each other... if jealousy were to arise we will and have discussed it like adults (if adults act anywhere near like that).

As for slutty, my apologies, but that is quite a harsh way to assume every relationship is physical. While yes some people would be physically intimate with both, I'm only physically intimate with one. The other wants a 90% emotional relationship, with a little bit of cuddling and kissing.

So before assuming that I plan to have sex with both as well as the guarantee that no matter what someone will be hurt, it helps to get details.

I'm quite sure that my relationship with these two will for a fact last longer and already has lasted longer than what seems the average relationship duration (3 years knowing both) and I'm engaged to one of them.

If I'm understanding your final words you probably wont be coming back; however, if you do I look forward to your reply.

Well then you don't have to be in one... but would you accept or be willing to let someone else be without looking down on them? or is it that bad that you wont? (Just wondering)

Main Entry: slut
Pronunciation: \ˈslət\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English slutte
Date: 15th century

1 chiefly British : a slovenly woman
2 a : a promiscuous woman; especially : prostitute b : a saucy girl : minx

(Just posting this to show that it i possibly the wrong word to use, by no means to offend)

Also... in reply to your experience... that is going behind your back/cheating if you didn't know about the other person... what I am referring to is an open relationship (everyone knows who is in the relationship from day 1)

For me, the 2 people I'm with are great friends with me and each other...

Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet

While you say they will get hurt, not all relationships work the same way. me and my 2 partners are 100% open with each other... if jealousy were to arise we will and have discussed it like adults (if adults act anywhere near like that).

As for slutty, my apologies, but that is quite a harsh way to assume every relationship is physical. While yes some people would be physically intimate with both, I'm only physically intimate with one. The other wants a 90% emotional relationship, with a little bit of cuddling and kissing.

So before assuming that I plan to have sex with both as well as the guarantee that no matter what someone will be hurt, it helps to get details.

I'm quite sure that my relationship with these two will for a fact last longer and already has lasted longer than what seems the average relationship duration (3 years knowing both) and I'm engaged to one of them.

If I'm understanding your final words you probably wont be coming back; however, if you do I look forward to your reply.

Congrats with the engagement. Hope it lasts.

Sorry, but you got me all wrong. I never meant that it was all about the sex that made polys sluts. The whole freaking thing in general. Two lovers in my opinion is just stupid to all extent. I don't understand why you cant just wait for the right one to pop up. But like I said, I had a bad experience. If it works for you, then fine. But as for me? I would rather scream. I'm not sure if you understand how I feel, nor do I really care. But maybe try and put yourself into other shoes sometime.

----------

Originally Posted by MidnightWolve

Congrats with the engagement. Hope it lasts.

Sorry, but you got me all wrong. I never meant that it was all about the sex that made polys sluts. The whole freaking thing in general. Two lovers in my opinion is just stupid to all extent. I don't understand why you cant just wait for the right one to pop up. But like I said, I had a bad experience. If it works for you, then fine. But as for me? I would rather scream. I'm not sure if you understand how I feel, nor do I really care. But maybe try and put yourself into other shoes sometime.

And...as reply to you're new post...

I, in fact did know about it, for quite some time. I accepted it for a little while. But after a while it really started hitting me hard. Why should I have to share
my girlfriend?

Anyway, like I said, more power to you. I truly hope everything works out and I wish you the best of luck in the most non-offensive way there is. But I still wont change what I think about it. and you're damn right I dont have to be in one, wont happen again.

I think you misunderstand me as well. I did find the right one... just as a widow can find true love twice... I too found it twice.

No offense taken, =) at least while you yourself aren't willing to take part in it, you can let others take part in their choices =) I admire that. (some people like to force their opinion on others >.<)

I plan for it to last for as long as us 3 shall live... =) a man on tv once said

History repeats itself, you can either learn from it, or copy it.

I've seen thousands of relationships polygamous or monogamous fail (yes, I'm a slight history nerd), might as well learn from them by being open about the relationships like many aren't.

Originally Posted by MidnightWolve

Congrats with the engagement. Hope it lasts.

Sorry, but you got me all wrong. I never meant that it was all about the sex that made polys sluts. The whole freaking thing in general. Two lovers in my opinion is just stupid to all extent. I don't understand why you cant just wait for the right one to pop up. But like I said, I had a bad experience. If it works for you, then fine. But as for me? I would rather scream. I'm not sure if you understand how I feel, nor do I really care. But maybe try and put yourself into other shoes sometime.

Look, i don't really know what the "right one" means. Once you love and be loved it's right, it doesn't matter how many people is involved. Now, something can stop being right after a while, people changes and nothing lasts forever. And you seem to be the one that's not being capable of putting yourself in someone else shoes.

No offense intended, but you are the one "screaming". Not every one works the same way, and i believe people in the modern world suffers from excesive atachement. I've been in a five year relationship by now, and i've told my girlfriend that during our relationship i've fallen in love with others (Men and women) I guess to you this is cruel and twisted, but i'd rather tell her whats happening that keeping secrets that some day will blow up in my face.

The first thing you must understand, is that love is accidental, you can't control it. It just happens once you reach certain level of trust and involvement in a relationship. So asking me not to love anyone but you would be asking me not to involve myself with anyone but you, and i am quite a social guy.

What i'm trying to tell you here is not to take it so personal. I understand that you might have been hurt in the past. But that doesn't mean everybody will.

Montaigne said that running away from vices is just cowardice, true temperance resides in savouring them without being consumed by them.

@reddeath26: I really like your argument on how polygamy and cheating are two different concepts entirely. I'll be sure to keep that in my memory bank for future reference. Whilst I still wouldn't accept polygamy in my life I now realize that polygamy seems to be commonly mistaken for cheating. Thanks for the enlightenment. :)

SO, with my newfound realization, I'm going to have to argue with MidnightWolve. I'm a little taken aback that you would call a whole sect of people "sluts." I think that they are only sluts/cads if one or more people in the relationship isn't aware of what is going on.

It sounds to me like the relationship you were in with a girl was a case of cheating not polygamy.

I still want to point out that I am anti-poly, I'm just saying.

I honestly wouldn't bother, Elysium. People like her do not learn, because that requires thought, and they are severely lacking in that area.

Essentially, polyamory works the same way any other brand of relationship does -- specific rules are laid down at the very beginning, and going outside those rules constitutes cheating. In the same way that some consider looking but not touching perfectly fine and others consider it cheating, some consider having any other partners besides oneself cheating, others put no limits at all on it, others are fine with physical but not emotional relationships, and still others have specific limits on which partners are allowed and which are not. It's not such a foreign concept, the idea of individual people, rather than society, setting the rules for their relationships.

Also, to Midnight: Evil Slutopia: SLUT
I'm quite proud to be a slut, so thanks for noticing. :heart:

Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet

I think you misunderstand me as well. I did find the right one... just as a widow can find true love twice... I too found it twice.

No offense taken, =) at least while you yourself aren't willing to take part in it, you can let others take part in their choices =) I admire that. (some people like to force their opinion on others >.<)

I plan for it to last for as long as us 3 shall live... =) a man on tv once said
I've seen thousands of relationships polygamous or monogamous fail (yes, I'm a slight history nerd), might as well learn from them by being open about the relationships like many aren't.

Mmm, well I'm not that type of person. I may not agree in something but I'm not like a straight parent trying to turn a gay person straight, lol its just my strong opinion.
I honestly dont care what people say, nothings going to change my view on it...I just disagree with it strongly :) Anywho's lmao this time I'm outta here. I tend to get caught up in debates whether I like it or not haha.

I honestly dont care what people th

@MidnightWolve-
Firstly I want to stress that I am sorry to hear this happened to you. Having a partner act in an unfaithful manner can be extremely painful. Although I would hope you realize that what happened to yourself constitutes cheating, more than it constitutes a polygamous relationship.

Now as for your complaints against polygamous relationships, it is important to recognize the impact culture plays in defining relationships. Indeed how a person views, interprets and understands relationships is going to be influenced very heavily by their culturally defined understanding of the world. Taking a cross cultural look we find this is particularly the case, with roughly 33% of cultures supporting monogamous relationships and the remaining 66% supporting polygamous relationships (of these polyandry is the minority).

Not only that, but the foundations relationships should be built upon and the purpose they serve in their respective societies also differs greatly from culture to culture. Your attempts to center in on love, while highly relevant to your own cultural understanding does not relate to most cultures. As most cultures do not view romantic love as being a suitable foundation for a serious relationship.

As I mentioned to ElysiumFate, this does not in any way make your preference for relationships wrong. It has not been my intention at all. But rather I would argue your basis and understandings of relationships are equally valid to those with a polygamous based cultural perspective.

well... i think its allright... do what you want.. but dont hurt other people.


for me tho... im the envious type... i dont think it would work for me, i'd end up decapitating the other girl... or man...