You know what, i just thought of this while replying to a 'all gays are going to hell'

What about those who are born of both male and female parts?
Debate-
Same rules apply?
The devil has cursed them so there forever damned?

please don't take this as my views. just questions to think of.

To my knowledge, the Bible mentions nothing of people who are not born XX/XY.

Originally Posted by Keyori

To my knowledge, the Bible mentions nothing of people who are not born XX/XY.

exactly
but then again im sure some priest..preachers.. whatever there called have thought of something.. or have they been ignoring that issue enterly?

I do indeed think that this issue has been ignored, as it is so rare. I've never read anything on it at least.

However, I think that the most hardcore Christians out there - the ones at least willing to believe that all homosexuals are abominations - might indeed try to argue that these people are the work of the devil and damned for eternity.

But that's just their view.

They should be allowed to live out their lives being intersexed if they so desire.

well this is a hard subject here. for people who are born with both, they should also be treated with the upmost respect. everyones a human, and humans need to be excepted and treated right to be happy and flourish. therefore, they should date guys, girls, and hey even another bothy. let them be who they want to be, there not hurting anyone

They are still human as far as we know they could've been created to show us truth. I mean species have to evolve what if we are meant to be Hermaphrodites?

Originally Posted by Keyori

To my knowledge, the Bible mentions nothing of people who are not born XX/XY.

Then they must not exist! ;)

As for the topic, I don't know. I'm all for the rights of people to love and marry any consenting adults they want to so...

The fact that people with both parts exist is just another flaw in the Bible. :)

Originally Posted by Kanna_Karasu_Kamio

The fact that people with both parts exist is just another flaw in the Bible. :)

How, exactly? Before I assume anything, I'd like to know what makes you say that. And please note that not addressing something is not equivalent to denying it exists.

Also, I am not Christian, so do not jump on me for "blindly believing" or other such BS.

Its more along the line that when the Bible was created we didn't know enough about people who had both. Most "laws" in th bible are man made. Such as suffer not a "WITCH" to live it was don't let evil change you. Misconception. And don't get me started on the whole gays are evil. The thing about hermaphrodites was just left out.

Um, minor off-topic correction -- that verse, while it certainly wasn't actually telling people to kill witches, it was referring to either those who pray (to anyone, including YHVH) or healers who also deal in poison. This is not an issue with the Bible, it's an issue with the English translation, as they translated it as "witch" to justify killing those accused of witchcraft (who were, more often than not, not witches at all and simply elderly women who made a living by selling healing herbs). So, you shouldn't really use that as an example of bad man made laws in the Bible.

I've never read the bible all the way through...but I don't ever remember a passage saying that all men are going to hell. Can someone explain this to me? I didn't think that the "who is going to hell" list included all men.

Eh...the way I see it is that everyone sins so everyone is going to hell. Everyone at one point has broken a commandment. You can repent but you'd think the big guy would get tired of excuses and just send them all to hell anyway. He does love "all his children" though but wouldn't that include gays and intersexed people as well?

On a non-religious note, the way I see things is that a person is a person no matter what gender they are born or not born. To me "gender" has no black and white meaning. There are people that consider themselves "intersexed" and there are transgendered people as well.

I am not religious at all because the Bible does contradicts so many things in life. The world is not just black and white and life should not be lives out of a book. I am not anti region because I do think that for some people it helps to have faith in a higher power. It's just not something that I need in my life.

I have read the Bible along with several other religious books. I find them interesting but nothing I personally would follow.

Originally Posted by Mystic

He does love "all his children" though but wouldn't that include gays and intersexed people as well?

According to several religious folk, it's okay to "be" gay or intersexed, you just can't act like it. If you act on those "horrendous desires," then you're going to hell.

There's a reason I'm not a fan of organized Christianity, despite being Christian :lol:

Originally Posted by Keyori

According to several religious folk, it's okay to "be" gay or intersexed, you just can't act like it. If you act on those "horrendous desires," then you're going to hell.

There's a reason I'm not a fan of organized Christianity, despite being Christian :lol:

Ah yes the whole "acting" and "being" thing. I forgot about that. XD

Depending on which religion you follow, some of the angels and even god are sexless, so I can't imagine that (is the correct word intersexed?) people would be subjected to hell.

Also, the original texts of the Bible state that raping prisoners and having sex within pagan rituals was a sin. As far as I can see, it never directly addresses a loving same sex relationship, only the lusty and idol worshipping ones.

But, I could be wrong.

I have a few things to add to this. "Sodomites" or people of Sodom and Gomorrah were damned in the bible. The modern interpretation of "sodomite" is someone who has anal-sex (technically sodomy) The problem with translations is that there is much in the translation that is interpretation. When the men of Sodom called the angels of the lord that were visiting Lot, they called out "so we can know them" this has been interpretation as to have sex with them. Another interpretation is that the reason these men were damned was not for the acts they wish to preform but for the lack of manners they had toward the angels. Oh, and I learned this in an intro to Islam course.

Actually, sodomite is never defined within the Bible, other than to mean "someone from Sodom."

I personally think that he wouldn't condemn someone who was born with both male and female parts. He's not quite as vindictive as people make him out to be, I think. Alot of people focus on those parts that involve damnation and salvation, but that's just a small part of it. It is indeed confirmed that everyone sins. No one's perfect. But the general idea is to improve one's self over time and try to be the best person you can be. That, I think is the idea of the Bible itself. It's not about who's going to hell and who isn't, it's about becoming a better person by using Him as a role model and guide. I don't know if angels are sexless...it does make note that Gabriel is a "he" as is Michael. So maybe all the angels are men because the woman was even created until He saw that the human man needed a companion just as the animals had companions. Back to the point, though, I think people with both gender parts have as much chance to go to heaven as anybody else. I don't think they'd be damned because of their physiology. That's pure human thinking to assume that He would damn someone for something they were born with. That's like how Catholics in the medieval age would think someone is demon possessed if they were deformed.

I'm hurt by how much misunderstanding and stereotypes are tacked onto Christianity. Many of these claims are made with little information about the religion or exaggerated explanations. I understand that Christians may seem unfairly intolerant, but understand what kind of belief they have. Since I only have an understanding of Protestant Christianity, I'll explain it based on t heir beliefs.

To explain the issue with homosexuals, know that Protestant's understanding of what "homosexual" means differs from society's. Society's system of judging crime has several tiers, and from what I see, it is judged on permanency and whether you can be compensated or not. The choice that homosexuals make is harmless, therefore it is not a crime. Now take something like stealing. It hurts the individual who has been stolen from, however it is not permanent and you can be compensated for it. It is a middle tier crime. Murder is permanent, you cannot be compensated, it is a high tier crime. So on and so forth. In a Protestant's eyes, all of these are sins of the same level. Protestants don't tolerate homosexuals as they don't tolerate murder. It's just what they believe in.

As for transgenders, like PrincessBane said, I don't think that it's considered a sin. In the Bible, Jesus helped the lepers, people with diseases they can't control. Likewise, transgenders can't help their biological part of themselves. However, their sexuality becomes a gray area. When choice comes in, that's where sin strikes. I don't have an answer to this, but this is a very interesting issue and I'll be looking into it.

Exactly. Alot of Christians unfortunately, present themselves in a way that makes them seem inflexible and borderline hateful of others who sin. When the true core of Christianity is not like that at all. Just as she said, Jesus worked with people that were not the models of society, but people most feared/judged/shunned. I mean, he befriended a prostitute. But most people will only look at the "You're going to heaven because you do not do this" or "You're going to hell because you did that."

And as stated here, I do not think that He would hate/condemn people born with two genders. Just as He doesn't hate gays, despite the popular belief that He does.

I would think that even the most hardcore "being gay is a choice!" folk would have trouble finding a justification for saying that people born intersexed are automatically damned to hell. After all, even if you believe that homosexuality is "just a lifestyle choice" (I don't, btw), that is different from saying that a person who was born with certain body parts "chose" anything. They may as well say that people born without all their limbs, or as conjoined siblings, are damned no matter what.

Although on the other hand, it's possible (likely?) that an intersexed person who doesn't "choose to be" one gender or the other, and only have sex with the opposite of that gender, could be subject to that kind of irrational condemnation... Oh no, people might be bisexual in two senses of the word! Heavens, think of the children!! *eyeroll*

interesting idea. i never thought of that. but now that i have, i think that, like the gays, there really isn't much you can do about it. they were meant to have both male and female parts for a reason.

I have acually dated someone like that! While it really went nowhere (she moved :( ) i still liked her. People with both are still human beings and quite frankly, can love whomever thay want. Just like anybody else!