This is not my view but and rant that someone had..

So my boyfriend and I where at Wal-Mart the other day this lady freak out because her husband hit the button that made the card read show in Spanish.. In her rant she stated that this is American we should make everyone speak American... This is what’s wrong with American we don’t make them speak our language…

So menewsha what do you think?????

I believe that the USA is/was called the "Melting Pot" of the world for a reason.
We are a land of immigrants.
If they want to speak their own language, be it Spanish or otherwise, whatever. Cool.
That's their right, just like their choice in religion, ect.

It's also important (and kindof interesting and fun) to note that the United States has no official language.
:P

Also, American is not a language. I believe the term you are looking for is English.

Additionally, why not speak Navajo or some other Native American language, by that logic?

I'm assuming that the woman in question was too ignorant to just say 'English' instead of 'American'. Just my guess.

And while it is people's right to speak their own language, I really do think that if you immigrate to this country, whether legally or illegally, you should at least take a stab at learning how to speak English. Let's face it, not everyone in this country can or will want to speak another language like Spanish or Italian or Chinese or whatever. This is out of either lack of resources or lack of wanting to try. So when you come here ('you' being the generalized term I'm using for immigrants), you should learn English so that you can 1) understand what people are saying to you and 2) be likewise courteous to those that don't know your language. Seriously. If you're Spanish and you see a white or black person going past and then start to speak to them in Spanish, don't start getting offended that they don't know your language. They technically have more of a right to be offended that you can't speak English. Other countries are like that too; they expect you to speak their language because they're not gonna bother to give you a translator or whatever for you to understand what other people are saying.

End rant.

----------

And that's a good question, Keyori; the military has used the Navajo language in order to keep German decoders from figuring out what they're saying during WWII. Why not keep it on as an a language additional to the predominant English? Was it of their own volition that they didn't want to speak it, or was it that the Native Americans didn't want the white man to know their language?

Typing has now become difficult due to cat perch.

Keyori, AnniMahffins is right the woman speaking was to was too ignorant to just say 'English' instead of 'American'.

Keyori. OMG. GARRUS. I LOVES HIM.

-ahem-

Anyway I guess now I have to say something that contributes to the discussion, huh?

People like that tend to assume that "American" Is just one thing, one story, and everything that deviates from that story somehow..... isn't. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that she's white. Because honestly I've never heard someone from a minority say "We're America, so you should do X, or you're not American" in any seriousness, and i think its because because most people who are minorities have been smacked in the face with that kind of ignorant experience denying bullshit, and they know better.

yes she was white and in her 50's.. And poor husband just kept trying to g et her to hush...

Awesome. I'd feel proud at my correct guess but honestly the most i can summon is a world-weary facepalm

*takes a deep breath* I didn't wanna make the assumption that she was white cuz I didn't wanna seem racist (I'm half-black, half-Asian), but I'm gonna stretch this a little further and say that most white people act this way towards people that don't have the same views as they do, or because they don't have the same nationality. It's not exclusive, but white people are worse just because they still have this holier-than-thou attitude that they should have ditched back in the '60s. It's really not fair that other countries look down at us for the select few that go out of their way to be really f-ing stupid.

But I do apologize. I'm quite snippy late at night.

I figured she was white because her behavior just seemed to SCREAM privilege. Its not, I think, that white people are holier-than-thou. But it's no secret that white people enjoy a place in society that minorities do not (privilege). As a result, they don't think about the impact of minorities, or the lives of minorities, or the lives of any that don't look like them, because they don't have to. Of course, I'm not talking about all white people, just the subset that doesn't check their privilege. Like the lovely woman above.

Well, you could argue that she meant American English. :sweat:

But, still.

Originally Posted by AnniMahffins

*takes a deep breath* I didn't wanna make the assumption that she was white cuz I didn't wanna seem racist (I'm half-black, half-Asian), but I'm gonna stretch this a little further and say that most white people act this way towards people that don't have the same views as they do, or because they don't have the same nationality. It's not exclusive, but white people are worse just because they still have this holier-than-thou attitude that they should have ditched back in the '60s.

Black (at least black men) are just as racist. Seriously. Just because they're black and it's called reverse-racism, doesn't mean it isn't racism.

And yet, it doesn't mean most of them, either black or whites, are racist. Just that racist people about loud about it ;)


Now, back to the disscusion: If a country is welcoming you into a better economical/social/political situation, the least you could do is not to expect them to do all the job of making life easier for you. Not everyone is smart enough to learn a second language, that's why most countries have a single language for general communication.

I know, I know, "but what if they're too poor to pay for a language course", but yeesh, they're not so poor to pay for a trip, be it legally or via coyoteros!

Now, concerning the lady who threw a fit, that was totally out of place. It's the mart's decision to catter to more nationalities and attract them with a multi-lingual menu. It's not so much about her being xenophobic and more about her being a dramaqueen, really :roll:

@ Kah Hilzen-Ec I think the idea that we as Americans welcome newcomers with open arms and of oh so much more is a bit of a myth, and a bit arrogant. Yes certainly there are advantages to live in the United States over other places, but that doesn't mean that people arrive here and everything is hunky dory. One needs only to look at the disproportion of minorities living in low income areas to know that. and the "You're in a America, learn english!!!!!11111111" trope is tiresome, at best.

And while it's certainly true that minorities can be just as racist as whites, it's important to realize that racism from a minority and racism from a white person are not equivalent.

:roll:
"Most" white people?
I think that's entirely an unfair statement.
I don't act like that and I don't know anyone who does.
I do not treat any person of other color or other belief like lesser than me, unless they show me through actions or words, that they are lesser than me (ie make hateful unreasonable ignorant statements or other such stupidity). And even then, I do not assume it's the race, but the person under the skin.

Many "white people" I know act the same. I am immensely offended by your statement.
I don't like it when people keep blaming "the white man" for everything.
Move on, that's the kindof attitude that keeps so many stuck in the 60s. The idea that only white people can be racist, uhg.

And, Yumiko, I disagree. Racism is racism no matter who says it. And it's all disgusting.

Originally Posted by YumikoYoshihana

And while it's certainly true that minorities can be just as racist as whites, it's important to realize that racism from a minority and racism from a white person are not equivalent.

Racism is racism wherever it comes from indeed. Be it from a white man, from a latino man, from a black man, it still hurts the chances of society ever becoming an all-accepting group. It makes the whole ethnic group look bad, and further separate them.

Also, with that statement are you referring only to the USA or a wider space?

Certainly racism coming from anyone is equally toxic and harmful to a society. But no, racism from (using a narrow example) a white person to a black person is different from racism from a black person to a white person.

Years of abuse and enslavement followed by continuing marginalization and erasing both overtly (Such as jim crow laws) and covertly (such as the recent controversy about a woman getting charged with a felony for trying to send her daughter to a better school) Color the racism of the historic oppressors differently then the historic oppressed. To clam that there isn't racism in modern times ranging from social structures to class structures to political and legal structures is a kind of racism in and of itself, because it erases the experiences of those who have to deal with racism in their everyday lives and reveals staggering amounts of privilege.

My family is Jewish.
Millions of my family's people were murdered by a German dictator. Ever heard of the Holocaust?
Does that mean if I went and spit in some German's face it wouldn't be quite as awful?

:roll:

No, it's still racist and still fucked up.
It's all the same. It's all hateful and horrible and there is no excuse.

Thing is, okay, they were enslaved. It's okay to feel wary about those white Republicans or Democrats or whatever. But whenever I see a black being racist, it's not just to whites who may put in danger their freedom. It's to any white, sometimes asians and sometimes even to not-so-dark hispanics too.

It's also racist that black people can get away with calling white people "crackers" and that white people cannot get away with calling them "niggers", even though nigger isn't all that offenssive (really, "black" in another language?) and cracker is evidently a pejorative term.

I'm not saying its not fucked up. Did I ever say it wasn't fucked up? In fact, I believe I said it was toxic and horrible. But I'll clarify and say that i agree that it's fucked up. What I'm saying is that there are differences, and I'm saying there are differences because to be blind to those differences does not help end racism in our society, or any society. It's only when people are aware of racism, and are vigilent to the impact it has on themselves and people around them that we can truly start to bring down the most insidious and dangerous aspects of racism.

Kah, how on EARTH do you get off saying not only that nigger is not offensive, but that it's less offensive than cracker? Seriously? Do you truly believe that?

Yes, but you think it's not as bad, if it's going from a black person to a white person...That's racist in and of itself.
I am very aware of racism, unfortunately, and I have only been a victim of it, and I think it's all completely disgusting. No matter who is being racist against who, or why.
Everyone is their own person.

My family immigrated here a generation before World War 2.
My grandfather was a first generation American for his family, his wife, my late grandmother, was the same.
So how is it my fault for being born white because someone who was here in the US being a fuckhead 100 years before my family even arrived?

Racism is not okay. Period.

I never once said racism from a black person to a white person is not as bad. Not once. I said that it is very different, due to the historical and modern dynamic between these two races. I said they were not equivalent, just like minorities are not equivalent to whites in so many aspects of society. I do not mean equivalent as in ethics, as in one is more ethical than another, i do not mean equivalent as in severity, as in one is less severe then the other, i do not mean equivalent as in damage, as in one is less damaging then the other. I mean in power. I mean in the inherent power and privilege dynamic that is so much apart of modern society.

It is not your fault for being white. No one said it was. No one even said that being white was a fault.

Please please please read my actual words and not the ones you put in my mouth.

You said they were different, but neglected to explain how, so, it's not completely out of place that I jumped to that conclusion.

In power and privilege?
Explain further, please.

Edit: Though, I think you mean, power in government, and in, how much money white vs black families have?
I don't want to assume again. :/

Because, if so, I'm not sure it matters. There are a lot of systems in place to equalize things, but it's still going to take time...And I don't think it makes it any more ethical to hate on the "white man" because of it.
Racism only breeds more racism.

I Believe I did explain, when i spoke of the years of abuse, enslavement, and marginalization. But I will go into more detail.

Once upon a time a bunch of white people wanted to explore Africa. This was a time when colonization was the big thing and Europe was having a field day with it. In Africa this bunch of white people saw land with a vast amount of resources that they wanted to have, either because the lands from which they hailed had run out of those resources or because they just plain wanted them. Those resources included the population of homo sapiens native to Africa. Because you see, they weren't real people. Real people lived in houses and attended parties and had tea and were civilized. And also were white. Not only were these people not white, they were savages that were getting in the way of these white people from getting the resources in Africa that they wanted. So they rounded a bunch of them up, and sold them for slaves.

These slaves were ripped from their home, raped, beaten, starved, killed, separeted from their families and forced to work. They weren't people any more, they were slaves. They were niggers (Hi there, Kah!) Eventually it was legalized that they only counted as 3/5ths of a person, which made sense to white people at the time because, well, they were only niggers. Its not like they were real (white!) people or anything.

Eventually someone woke up and said "Hey, slaves are people too!" And got a bunch of other people to wake and see how fucked up slavery was. Although some people didn't agree, because they were really really invested in not seeing these black people as real live actual whole people, instead of kind of sorta three fifths of people. But eventually the slaves are people two side one, but then we started getting into the real messy problems, because even though black people where now people, it didn't mean that they were as good as white people. That would require that white people share the status and power and relative wealth that they enjoy. It would mean that white people, as a group, would have to give up power over black people, as a group, and if there is one thing people don't like to do, its give up power.

But anyway what happens next is this really interesting and not a little fucked up class and race intersection. Because while black people weren't slaves anymore, it didn't mean they were as good as white people, so they couldn't get good jobs and they couldn't get educated and they couldn't make money, while white people got the jobs and were educated and made the money. This is why we have things like affirmative action today, to counteract the generations where it wasn't understood that black people were as good as white people so the white people got to build up money over generations in disproportionate numbers ofer black people. Of course there are exceptions, but we're talking the disproportionate showing of each class with each race.

And now we have modern times, where black people have been fighting tooth and nail for the right to be thought of as just as good as white people, with varying degrees of success. Black people are still disproportionally in lower income areas, which means lower property taxes, which means black children are in disproportionately bad and underfunded schools. Which makes it difficult to get the education required to get the success required to compete with white counterparts. Racial profiling still exists. There is a disproportionate amount of black men in prisons. A girl names Shaniqua is less likely to get a job then a girl named Lauren. I could go on, but i think i've done that enough.

Pretty much what i'm saying is that white people have the power because they have had the power. White people have more power, as a group, in a American society then black people. Black people aren't even allowed to call people out on racist bullshit anymore, because they're disparaged for "pulling the race card" and "trivializing racism". White people can and do erase the experiences and the struggles of minority people in ways that black people can not, because black people do not have the power. Black people do not oppress when they are racist, the way white people are oppressive and silencing and marginalizing when they are racist to a person of color. People of Color just don't have the social and political power the way that white people do, and that's why racism between the two are not equal. Because all of the history, all of that badness as trickled down through the ages and the slightly smarter, slightly kinder generations to permeate itself in all of societies social interactions.

No, you didn't really explain, you just sortof started talking about slavery, and such, without explaining how you meant to connect them.
A lot of people use the "slavery and oppression" argument to validate and exonerate black people from being racist.

I'd also like to point out that a lot of slaves, especially early on, were prisoners of war, and were sold by other tribes into slavery, it wasn't the white man just kidnapping people. :sweat: (Here is a source regarding slavery in general, and even how it had been going on long before the USA. - I'm also trying to find another source as well.)

I'm also not saying it's not valid to be upset about it, but, be upset at the people who actually did wrong, and most of them died a long time ago.

Yes, I was born white, but so was everyone else who was born white. We didn't ask to be born into this life, and given the chance, I would share the privilege I had growing up with everyone else. Unfortunately I can't. So instead, I treat every human being with respect, until they, as a person, not as a race, show me they don't deserve it.

I'd also like to point out, that some black people still use the "You're white and that means if you don't like me it's because you're racist," excuse too.
:sweat:

It can all be said for all sides. I'm sure given the chance, some black people would have taken the opportunity presented to them, and probably abused it just like white people had done, because that is human nature. We are selfish, by nature.

Originally Posted by Martin Luther King Jr.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

If we want to put racism behind us, we have to stop validating it period and stop making it acceptable in any form, it's only going to make the transition longer and harder.

Originally Posted by AnniMahffins

*takes a deep breath* I didn't wanna make the assumption that she was white cuz I didn't wanna seem racist (I'm half-black, half-Asian), but I'm gonna stretch this a little further and say that most white people act this way towards people that don't have the same views as they do, or because they don't have the same nationality.

I'm not American and the situation is totally different in my country, but I am caucasian, and therefore the ignorance of this statement makes me perform an epic facepalm.

I'm going to correct it.

Originally Posted by AnniMahffins

*takes a deep breath* I'm gonna stretch this a little further and say that most people act this way towards people that don't have the same views as they do, or because they don't have the same nationality.

Racism is just one of the many faces of ignorance, and ignorance doesn't know boundaries of colour or state.