How do you feel about people who start debates with no intention of finding a solution or acknowledging other opinions? Do you think this kind of person exists? Do you think this eliminates the point of debating, or do you think it is the point of a debate?

Most people I see involved in debates really seem to take it personally and go down with their ship, even if someone can counter all of their reasons with different facts or ideas that make them invalid.

Recently I was witnessing a very heated debate in an online game I play, and I noticed that they were using a couple of words as their main defenses. Incorrectly, according to the dictionary. So I pointed this out to them, to which one of them replied, "Technically, nothing can be proven, ever. 'Logic' can't be proven the same way you can't prove you have a computer."

Then they continued to debate amongst themselves. This continued for about 30 more minutes before they were kicked out for being rude and obnoxious to everyone who dared question their non-logic (which, ironically, they referred to as real logic, as opposed to the dictionary or any other evidence pointed out to them that could've settled their little spat in a hurry).

I don't know about you guys, but I tend to believe there isn't much of a debate left when there have been studies and a decent amount of proof behind something. The definition of words, for instance, or that jumping off your roof is probably a bad idea, or how something works.

So, what do you think?

I've witnessed this a lot. There are a lot of people who mistake debating for arguing and they take everything to heart. I respect everyone has their own opinions and sometimes they're too stubborn to realize that theirs may be, even though they're entitled to it, is incorrect. I, like a lot of people, do have a few strong opinions and at sometimes I do wish people could see and better understand my side of it or my reasoning.

I was in a debate here on Mene about six months back and everyone involved in it was to one opinion except for the creator of the debate thread. The people, myself involved, provided facts and research, references, and proven points to the other person but they still insisted we were wrong. If you want to start a debate, you should be ready to face different opinions and at times be able to admit to yourself and others that you are wrong. If you only want opinions supporting your side, you're SOL, because not everybody will and that is something you should acknowledge before starting a debate.

When people do something like that really irks my nerves. I try to just let it go because I know people are ignorant and stubborn, but sometimes it just really bothers me. When someone has been absolutely proven wrong, there isn't much room for any more debate, and the person who has been proven wrong shouldn't be angry, well at first they will be, but eventually they should realize the truth being shown to them on a silver platter.

I'm a lot more willing to respect people's opinions when it's something primarily based upon morals, like abortion or the current thread about vegetarians/vegans, and of course those tend to be the more heated and never-ending debates because there is no way to declare a 'winning' side. Aside from that, nobody likes being told they're wrong and nobody wants their big ol' egos busted, but that's no excuse to act like a child, in my opinion. Like they try to do everything in their power to convince you that a fact is not a fact and they're correct on some moral/philosophical standing, just for the sake of being stubborn and winning.

The thing is on a lot of bigger issues the debate is out in the wider world as well, so people can find evidence for both sides, and that makes it even harder for the average person to debate the issue. Especially since in our minds, what we believe is right, and someone arguing with us must be wrong. I've found issues where there is of course some gray area, but on many things people see a clear right and wrong side to be on, and that causes argument.

The fun part is, that when things get hostile neither side will ever cop to starting it, because they see the other as having done it, no matter what. they always attacked first. Always. I know I've been guilty of this, and others have done it to me on many occasions as well.

People can't ever admit that their side can be wrong. Ever. It's against basic human psychology.

The second you decide something is right, it becomes very important to you that it is right. Whenever someone says it's wrong, they're suddenly attacking you because what you believe to be right is so important. This is why radical groups have so much sway over their followers. What's right is right, and those who don't believe that are all ignorant and or evil.

Debate staying debate is very difficult especially when you can't see the actual person you are talking to.

I made a thread a few weeks ago about a debate I got into with a friend at my college. The debate was actually about a "solution" he came up with for a controversial issue that has arisen in the past few decades. I acknowledged from the very start that I agreed with him on the fact that this was an issue that needs to be looked into and solved before any other damage can be done, but our agreeing stopped there. The debate was over the fact that his "fool-proof solution" was not a logical solution at all, that it would actually cause a lot more problems than fixing the problem we were already facing. No matter how hard I tried to explain, and I had a friend with me also trying to explain it to him from a "male to male" perspective (hoping he might see where his logic was wrong if he heard if from a man as well as a woman), but nothing worked.

He finally got so frustrated and flustered, but refused to back down, that he actually accused me of being addicted to a drug that I've never even handled, let alone taken, in my life. I was appalled, but I let it go... there was NO getting through his "logic". :roll:

I've noticed that a lot of the most illogical people you'll ever meet say that their logic is unquestionable... I think we should start teaching logic classes to younger than college level kids. Might be good for society in general.

By college age, people are usually too bent on their ways, too stubborn to consider anything else. I age with you, Sarofest.

I think we should start it in kindergarten. lol. The n the world wouldn't just believe whatever the flashing box told them, and might actually look into things.

Agreed. Each year, the level of what is taught increases, but it would start early.

Originally Posted by sarofset

People can't ever admit that their side can be wrong. Ever. It's against basic human psychology.

I disagree. I don't LIKE to admit I'm wrong, and I feel like an ass, but I have on several occasions stepped back and said "Oh, that's true. I'm sorry, that actually makes more sense." It might not be possible for you, but it's certainly possible for other people.

I agree with Loveday. I don't like it, but I've admitted "oh, okay. I'm wrong.".

Originally Posted by Loveday

It might not be possible for you, but it's certainly possible for other people.

No actually I've done it. Repeatedly.

I was speaking generally, and you know it.

Though I must admit

“All generalizations are false, including this one.” -Mark Twain

You didn't have to jump on me like that.

I certainly didn't mean to attack you, since that's what you seem to think I did? I just disagreed with what you said. I don't disagree with you as a person. My comment was based entirely off of your comment. You said it wasn't possible. You said it could NEVER happen. That implied that you could never admit to being wrong, but you also included everyone else in your statement. I know that to be false, because I, personally, can admit to being wrong. That's why I disagreed. It's a bold statement to say that nobody can EVER admit to being wrong. I quoted you, exactly what you said. This is kind of what the whole thread is about, haha. It's a debate. You should expect a disagreement. If you don't know how to handle that without taking it personally, I wouldn't recommend getting involved in a debate, because it's simply NOT PERSONAL.

I'm confused, though. So you said that nobody can ever admit to being wrong because it's against basic human psychology. But that doesn't include you. Everyone but you lacks the ability to be wrong? Maybe a better way to phrase it, if that's actually what you meant, would be "Not a lot of people have the ability to admit they're wrong."

But, quote for quote,

Originally Posted by sarofset

People can't ever admit that their side can be wrong. Ever. It's against basic human psychology.

When you group the entire human population into one assumption, then there are going to be people who are going to disagree with you. There are always, more often than not, exceptions to the rule. There will always be someone that can immediately admit that they are wrong after a fight or altercation. However, on the other hand, there are people who can not simply admit that something they had said was invalid or possibly hurtful and wrong to another member of the party that they are in and they will continue to refuse that fact. Some people simply feel the need to always be right which is why I believe that there are people out there that will not accept anyone to disagree with them. Hence why they believe that their logic will always be correct and everyone else is invalid. I believe that is the reason why some people pettily argue about something as simple as a word being misspelled. It is quite silly, but common as I am beginning to understand.

Originally Posted by Loveday

I certainly didn't mean to attack you, since that's what you seem to think I did? I just disagreed with what you said. I don't disagree with you as a person. My comment was based entirely off of your comment. You said it wasn't possible. You said it could NEVER happen. That implied that you could never admit to being wrong, but you also included everyone else in your statement. I know that to be false, because I, personally, can admit to being wrong. That's why I disagreed. It's a bold statement to say that nobody can EVER admit to being wrong. I quoted you, exactly what you said. This is kind of what the whole thread is about, haha. It's a debate. You should expect a disagreement. If you don't know how to handle that without taking it personally, I wouldn't recommend getting involved in a debate, because it's simply NOT PERSONAL.

I'm confused, though. So you said that nobody can ever admit to being wrong because it's against basic human psychology. But that doesn't include you. Everyone but you lacks the ability to be wrong? Maybe a better way to phrase it, if that's actually what you meant, would be "Not a lot of people have the ability to admit they're wrong."

But, quote for quote,

I admitted that I made a generalization. Now let it go.

Debate is certainly Not personal, but your comment there is.

As for my statement about psychology:

Some biases reflect a subject's motivation,[7] for example, the desire for a positive self-image leading to Egocentric bias[8] and the avoidance of unpleasant cognitive dissonance