[ I am Christian ]I recently got into a 'light' argument with a student in my class over the issue of God. God is a religion, and not everyone believes in him/her, so God is an opinion or a belief and that is it.

Fact - a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"

If God is a religion, and can not be proved through science than he is NOT a fact. But something that is entirely based on faith, possibility.

Do you agree?
Please keep in mind, I am not challenging the religion that is associated with God. I am challenging that he is an actual opinion and belief if he is not proven through science.

Hm... well... God is not a proven fact. There are many unproven facts in existence. But since He cannot be proven to exist, for now belief in Him would be considered an opinion. Same as with any other deity or supernatural being.

God, like evolution and atheism, both have some scientific proof backing them. We just won't know until we die. Both are faith based.

Ooh, you wait until I hop aboard my soapbox. x)

I think I've spent enough time lurking around the Guardian Comment is Free forum to be able to throw arguments into the kettle from all pots!

But, to tide things over, In(e), there is NO scientific proof - ID doesn't count; it's fundamnentally Creationism under another name - to support the existence of an Intelligent Creator. There's anecdotal evidence, but there's also so many diseases, tumours, mental illnesses that can screw up your thinking and make you think you're seeing/hearing God (especially if you're religious and it's a big conviction in your life - and actually, the mind doesn't even have to be sick! It's incredably unreliable functioning "normally"). Anyway, anecdotal evidence, RELIABILITY complications.

I will come back to this.

I never get bored of this. xD

I am a satanist and do not wish to intrude on the many Christian beliefs in this forum/chat but i as a satanist feel i am my own "god" and i create my "good and evil". That is merely my opinion on the matter and wish not to get into a true debate on religion.

I'm agnostic, so I'm really not sure. I want to believe there is a higher being out there not to deny the theory of evolution but to act as a comfort at the thought of death. It can't be that simple that you die and that it. I feel there has to be something more, so as long as I'm a good person, I think I will do well any heaven/afterlife set before me.

That is, of course if what is awaiting me is hell..

It's an opinion or belief. Evolution could also be considered an opinion or belief because there is no certain proof to it.

As a toddler the religion was forced on me by my father for he was the son of two Christian ministers his entire life. And all i can say about it was that i hated it. (No offense ofcourse)

I just couldnt understand that christians believed in something that has not been proven and may never have existed.

I was watching a show about this exact question the other night. It was very interesting and did get me thinking. He may have been a real person. But i still dont think he was. Some of the bible stories are too far fetched in some cases - like him coming back alive, yeah....who can do that now a days?.

I have no problem with christians - unless they are the type who try and convert you - It dosnt hurt for them to have someone who they can "talk to" through prayer and feel comforted by him/her.

to me this questions is an open-ended question. there is not a definite answer to yes he was real or a no he was just a character. There are loads of views on Christianity.

We may never know the true answer - and if we ever did find out i bet the pope and that will try and cover it up!

I'm not going to lie I believe in god, however I will be completely universal here and try to devise an opinion that may or may not make sense but hopefully won't offend.

Well if you think if God not so much as "God" but rather an energy one creates to push their own hopes on so that they have something to believe in and ultimately believing in their own energy. Energy, it's something everyone needs and may even desire just so they are able to do what they always wanted. When someone feels they have no energy it's then depression, it feels like being in a cage since you feel that you couldn't get out even if you tried. So what if they decide to give up on themselves and believe that there is something willing to help and keep them strong so they don't have to feel so bad. So by calling to "God" they feel that he/she gives them power to move on and well then they do. So they devote themselves to doing what they believe is what this other worldly power wants.

Now of course people don't see it as "Do good and you will prosper" sometimes it's "Do my bidding and get what you desire". In other words Devil and God or vise versa and so they do what their mind says is what the power wants so they themselves get that same power that can either bring someone to tears in happiness or another war on humanity's head.

But of course that leads on to a lot of other questions such as afterlife and salvation and physic powers and so on and so forth. So with the energy we gain we ask even more questions than we can answer and think well someone must know it somewhere and thus imply that the one that gives them energy must know it all and must then have created though and all of humanity.

Thats probably exaggerating but I though throwing in a new concept would be appreciated though I'll say it again, I do believe there is a consious being known as god but of course that doesn't mean any other religion is wrong. Actually I think there is at least some truth in every religion and that no religion itself is 100% correct.

Its opinion no one can really prove if he exists of no :]

• @ Pink Acid: I think you're confusing God with Jezus.
  
  
  To me, God is a belief and not a fact. Like what was said in the first post, a fact is a concept of which the truth can be proved (like 'water boils at 100° Celsius).
  
  I think that, when you believe in God, you don't believe in a person but in a collection of what you think are good character traits. For instance, most people think that God is quite forgiving, because they think that's a good trait when you know you've done something wrong. With other words, even if you're Christian, Catholic, Orthodox or what-have-you, God is a bit personal for you.
  
  And, by the way, God is not a religion on its/his/her own. Christianity is, amongst others, a religion where they believe in a God.
  
  I also reckon that it's only logical that whatever's not proven through science is a belief or an opinion.

Nobody knows untill we die...
...I think I'll stay wiccan, personaly.

Religion is an opinion or a belief.
Its nothing to argue over.

I believe in things that can be proven.
That doesn't mean I'm going to beat down a Christian's door and shove knowledge down their throat.

Thats why I don't appreciate door to door religious belief knockers.

I remember watching a woman on the Colbert report, preaching about the Christian faith. And at first, I got pissed but then when I actually listened to what she was saying, it took my breath away.

"Our Father.."

Not my father. The christian religon was created to bring a community together but so many people have twist and turned it's sayings and beliefs that the religon is run by fear and such. (I'm scared to say I don't believe in God just because I fear hell.)

They preach about gay marriage being immoral but they are just reading too deep into the bible.

I forgot what other things she said..

>.O;; Sorry for rambling on..

Originally Posted by Melonixx

[ I am Christian ]I recently got into a 'light' argument with a student in my class over the issue of God. God is a religion, and not everyone believes in him/her, so God is an opinion or a belief and that is it.

Fact - a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"

If God is a religion, and can not be proved through science than he is NOT a fact. But something that is entirely based on faith, possibility.

Do you agree?
Please keep in mind, I am not challenging the religion that is associated with God. I am challenging that he is an actual opinion and belief if he is not proven through science.

I agree with you here. I am an Athiest myself, although I really do respect that people beliee in god, and understand why they would. I think religion can be a beautiful thing, but it is based on faith, and that's why it can be beautiful. It's called faith for a reason. You have to take it on faith, you can't just say it's a fact.

Either way, I think that if I can understand and respect faith, people owe it to atheists to understand or at least respect our lack of it, and our choice. Still, a lot of people seem to think atheists just need a kick in the butt to get us worshiping, and pick arguments with us.

I don't like people who are rude about religion or atheism and pick fights with anyone insisting one is better, because it is a choice, and it is an opinion, so we should respect others'.

I beleive that there is a god, but it has been changed and morphed into 'cruel' or 'kind' over the years of humans. I'd like to say that the god is a fact, but I don't beleive it can be proven at all.

A scientific hypothesis isn't a fact, it's an idea.
However, scientists then test these ideas extensively to prove them, and use the evidence they've found to construct theories (which, in scientific terms, are more than just ideas, they're rigorously tested and proved assemblages of knowledge, based on the evidence of the world around us).

Whereas religious belief is something that can't be tested scientifically, as it's about things which exist in planes of reality higher than our own. Thus, evidence is harder to find.
The existence of God can't be proved via scientific testing, but religion doesn't ask for evidence, it asks for faith. The point of being a believer is that you believe, despite the fact that what you're being asked to believe in is something that lacks proof.

So, yes, you're right. Religion is, by nature and by design, about belief and faith. Believers will, obviously, consider their god(s) to be an incontrovertible fact, but it's impossible to provide hard evidence for something metaphysical.
Not to say that they're necessarily wrong. I think it's unlikely, but if you can't prove it exists, you also can't prove it doesn't exist. There's certainly no excuse for being nasty to people who believe in things you don't, or vice versa - live and let live, etcetera.

God is an opinion or belief, I think. Were God's existence a provable fact, there'd be no room for faith.

God is not real. There is no physical proof of his existence. He is an made up story made by crazy people. I am not Christian I am wiccan so my 'god' is a female and that is Mother Earth or Mother Nature. There is proof of her existence because you can smell, see, taste, feel and all of that. With god there is just writing so they could of been made up which is more then likely. Scientology also is good but to an extent because of they believe in aliens so yeah to a certain level Scientology is true. There, there is no god only science and Mother Earth/Nature.

Originally Posted by Melonixx

[ I am Christian ]I recently got into a 'light' argument with a student in my class over the issue of God. God is a religion, and not everyone believes in him/her, so God is an opinion or a belief and that is it.

Fact - a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"

If God is a religion, and can not be proved through science than he is NOT a fact. But something that is entirely based on faith, possibility.

Do you agree?
Please keep in mind, I am not challenging the religion that is associated with God. I am challenging that he is an actual opinion and belief if he is not proven through science.

i dont know i guess it really depends on the persona nd how you feel about it.

your right , i agree with you. after all there are many belief here in our lovely planet. but the key term is beliefs, everyone beliefs are diffrent so there for its an opinion not a fact. you cant say that it is a fact that heaven exist because you dont know it was not proven. just like you cant prove that the devil himself is real. if we consider god a fact then we would have to add santa claus ,the easter bunny and the tooth fairy in the list too since many childern beleive in these thing and believe they are real. but there is no way of proving it well except santa clause which actually was a person but that another story.

Thanks, Chris_Mae. ^_^ Your opinion is exactly mine.

But I would like to elaborate:

Originally Posted by TheCheesecakeBandit

God is not real. There is no physical proof of his existence. He is an made up story made by crazy people. I am not Christian I am wiccan so my 'god' is a female and that is Mother Earth or Mother Nature. There is proof of her existence because you can smell, see, taste, feel and all of that. With god there is just writing so they could of been made up which is more then likely. Scientology also is good but to an extent because of they believe in aliens so yeah to a certain level Scientology is true. There, there is no god only science and Mother Earth/Nature.

I do not want to trash your opinion or beliefs -- because you are certainly entitled to them -- but I do not like to be called crazy because I have faith other than yours, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't either. I imagine you'd be very offended if I called you a heretic or a blind fool because you are Wiccan and I am not, right? If you would be so kind, I would very much appreciate it if you would tailor your statements to avoid rude generalizations or petty name calling. Thank you!

Well, if we're getting technical, there are very few facts in existence.

Scientists themselves take forever to make a hypothesis a theory. When people say "It's just a theory", they forget that the existence of cells is a theory as well.

An opinion, however, is something that someone prefers. I prefer blue. I hate blue. It's an opinion, but it's nothing solid like "God exists".

With that in mind, God, I believe, is a statement with a truth value. That truth value is neither way.

Originally Posted by Cinnamonmiko

Thanks, Chris_Mae. ^_^ Your opinion is exactly mine.

But I would like to elaborate:

I do not want to trash your opinion or beliefs -- because you are certainly entitled to them -- but I do not like to be called crazy because I have faith other than yours, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't either. I imagine you'd be very offended if I called you a heretic or a blind fool because you are Wiccan and I am not, right? If you would be so kind, I would very much appreciate it if you would tailor your statements to avoid rude generalizations or petty name calling. Thank you!

Well, I do not really care what you call me. That is just what I believe and there. If you call me a 'heretic or a blind fool' just because of my beliefs, I don't care.

Originally Posted by TheCheesecakeBandit

God is not real. There is no physical proof of his existence. He is an made up story made by crazy people. I am not Christian I am wiccan so my 'god' is a female and that is Mother Earth or Mother Nature. There is proof of her existence because you can smell, see, taste, feel and all of that. With god there is just writing so they could of been made up which is more then likely. Scientology also is good but to an extent because of they believe in aliens so yeah to a certain level Scientology is true. There, there is no god only science and Mother Earth/Nature.

You say that you can't prove God's existence, but you forget the fact that there isn't any proove of there NOT being a God.

The god from the Christian relgion might not in fact be real, but that doesn't take away the idea that there might be something else. Those that choose to believe in God shouldn't be called crazy just because they put their faith in a higher-up being.

You say that your 'god' is nature? What're you doing on a computer then? A time ago, we came to the point of chosing for either Nature or Technology and we took the latter because the first didn't work fast enough. And science is often faulty and most of the time still in 'development', so to speak. Most of the scientific statements are still merely theories and not fully proven facts.


And to me, Scientology is not really a religion. But that's a debate for another day.