I believe it should be allowed. If someone doesn't want to have a child or is not ready to ohave one, then they shouldn't have one. It shouldn't be a big deal. It's better not to have a baby, then to bring it in to a world you know it;'s not going to be happy in. Adoptions already have plenty of children and foster cares too. Even in foster homes, most foster parents just want the money they get out of it. Besides, think about it, do you really want to bring a baby into our world today with everything going on right now. Also, what about those who can't afford a baby? Why let it experience poverty, suffering and starvation? All its going to get out of life is pain and resentment. I think abortions should be free and legal. Less kids suffer that way.

Originally Posted by unloved_prinzes

Actually, I know of a person who did what I said!! And the kid's doing nicely. Just one question, which one would you choose? To live or die? I've wondered so many times about why lots of people live instead of just putting an end to their lives? You, for example. Why do you even care to live if you can just die? And besides, orphanages are good!!! The children would be cared for there!

Well then you know one of the lucky few. A good majoity of people I know who went through the system hated it and would never wish a child into.

Because there are too many children in the system as there is. Why add more to the problem, unitl each and every child has a home, I will not be putting anymore there.

A choice between knowing nothing and knowing a life of pain? I think I would choose, and how do you know wether or not i have even attempted suicide before or planning it? Besides that's something else.

I don't hate children enough to force them onto someone who does not wish for them and will resent what is growing in her body. I don't hate women enough to force every woman who does not wish to carry any fetues for 9 months of her life and go through the hell of pregnancy. Pregnancy not happy and kittens. Besides the phsycial you got hormones going every which way and change in psychology. And then not to mention how people look and treat you once you till them when you plan to give the kid up.

Okay, well for those of you who think abortion is okay, do you think that post third trimester abortions should be illegal, but pre third trimester abortions should be legal?

I think that post third trimester abortions should be illegal because I've always believed that a fetus becomes a full blown baby somewhere in the third trimester, around the 26th week i believe, where if the baby was born it would be able to sustain life on its own, but it just benefits greatly from remaining in a womb for up to 40 weeks. I base this on the fact that the fetus is now aware of it's extremities (it can suck on its thumb and make fists and play with its ears and fingers), it responds to taste, light, and sound aswell. It is also *breathing*. There's no air to breath, but it is inhaling amniotic fluid to help exercise it's brain. This is why i feel that it isn't birth that determines the actual "baby" but if needed the ability to survive outside the womb. I'm not sure i would say it's completely "alive" though, as it hasn't been born. But it has every characteristic of a baby at this point, it just hasn't finished taking full advantage of parasiting off the mom. Which is why i'm anti-post third trimester abortion. And i'm afraid that people will wait that long to abort a fetus for research. unused embryo's and miscarriages are all go, imho, for the research, but aborting a baby for science leaves me very uneasy

Oh yeah, I'm opposed to the idea of abortion in the third trimester. I don't think any serious pro-choice advocate would suggest that abortion should be allowed all the way up until birth, because there does come a point where a foetus is so developed that it would survive outside the womb. The actual line's fuzzy, which is why in some places there's a big debate over when to set the time limit, but there is certainly a time after which a foetus has developed enough to be capable of living without the support of the woman it's inside.

I seriously doubt that scientists would want to use a third-trimester foetus for research purposes, mind. If that sort of thing was likely, it'd probably already be happening somewhere in the world, and I've yet to hear reports of such.

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

Okay, well for those of you who think abortion is okay, do you think that post third trimester abortions should be illegal, but pre third trimester abortions should be legal?

They were never really legal in the first place anyway. At most, they were practiced when the fetus/baby/whatever you want to call it, was either already dead, or it was a choice between the fetus or the mother's life. So, that part is really somewhat of a moot point.

Originally Posted by Rmarques

They were never really legal in the first place anyway. At most, they were practiced when the fetus/baby/whatever you want to call it, was either already dead, or it was a choice between the fetus or the mother's life. So, that part is really somewhat of a moot point.

Abortions aren't really illegal at all in where i live. I can go to my doctor and ask her where to get one. You can look up public abortion clinics online.

Originally Posted by Rmarques

They were never really legal in the first place anyway. At most, they were practiced when the fetus/baby/whatever you want to call it, was either already dead, or it was a choice between the fetus or the mother's life. So, that part is really somewhat of a moot point.

I believe there has been one record case of a third trimester, partial birth abortion. But the mothers life was greatly endangered if she continued te growth of the fetues within her, along with the life of te child would of also been lost.

I think an abortion is wrong in anycase.

If they are ready for the baby money wise, but didn't expect it, and if they could they could raise it, feed it, support it ectect then I think abortion is wrong.
If they can take care of it then its their responsibility too.

Other peoples parents might want them to get an abortion because the family is just not ready for it or just doesn't want the baby, just keep the baby until its birth and put it up for adoption and hope he or she leads a happy life.

I see abortion as taking ones life. Even if it hasn't gone though much.

Originally Posted by lmfao k thx

I think an abortion is wrong in anycase.

If they are ready for the baby money wise, but didn't expect it, and if they could they could raise it, feed it, support it ectect then I think abortion is wrong.
If they can take care of it then its their responsibility too.

Other peoples parents might want them to get an abortion because the family is just not ready for it or just doesn't want the baby, just keep the baby until its birth and put it up for adoption and hope he or she leads a happy life.

I see abortion as taking ones life. Even if it hasn't gone though much.

Sex does not mean consent to pregnancy.

Having a baby put one through great hormonal, emotional and physical changes.

it causes people to judge, make comments and is especially worse with a couple.

Some people are not ready to go through those changes.

And outting a child up for adoption does not mean that kid will live a life of happy and kittens, and everything is world. If the child is not white, healthy and newborn, it will most likely not be adopted, and will live a life in the system. And for many, I know that it is not a good life.

Just because your beliefs and morals are that abortion is wrong, does not mean mine are, and your beliefs should not dictate my life.

Originally Posted by AkashaHeartilly

Sex does not mean consent to pregnancy.

Having a baby put one through great hormonal, emotional and physical changes.

it causes people to judge, make comments and is especially worse with a couple.

Some people are not ready to go through those changes.

And outting a child up for adoption does not mean that kid will live a life of happy and kittens, and everything is world. If the child is not white, healthy and newborn, it will most likely not be adopted, and will live a life in the system. And for many, I know that it is not a good life.

Just because your beliefs and morals are that abortion is wrong, does not mean mine are, and your beliefs should not dictate my life.

I didn't say you had to go by my morals, I was just saying what I believe. D:>

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

Abortions aren't really illegal at all in where i live. I can go to my doctor and ask her where to get one. You can look up public abortion clinics online.

No, no, I'm not talking about abortion in general, I'm talking about third trimester abortion.

Originally Posted by Rmarques

No, no, I'm not talking about abortion in general, I'm talking about third trimester abortion.

ah okay. well would you agree that (less it's endangering the life of the mother) that 3rd trimester abortions should remain illegal?

@consenting to sex is not consenting to pregnancy. In this day in age we ALL know that if you put a penis in a vagina you risk becoming pregnant. You understand these risks when participating in this activity. It's like playing football, if you break your ankle don't get pissed off, you knew of the risks when you agreed to participate in the activity. I can understand rape cases and such but i don't like this argument or the "fetus is challanging my bodily integrity because i did not give it permission to leech off my nutrients" argument. It merely just makes it seem as if people are like, "wait...wait..you mean SEX makes BABIES?! HOLY SHIT!" When i have sex with my boyfriend i realize that i might get pregnant because his parts and my parts work.

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

ah okay. well would you agree that (less it's endangering the life of the mother) that 3rd trimester abortions should remain illegal?

Quite honestly, I'm still torn on that issue. So, for now I can0t give a definite answer.

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

@consenting to sex is not consenting to pregnancy. In this day in age we ALL know that if you put a penis in a vagina you risk becoming pregnant. You understand these risks when participating in this activity. It's like playing football, if you break your ankle don't get pissed off, you knew of the risks when you agreed to participate in the activity. I can understand rape cases and such but i don't like this argument or the "fetus is challanging my bodily integrity because i did not give it permission to leech off my nutrients" argument. It merely just makes it seem as if people are like, "wait...wait..you mean SEX makes BABIES?! HOLY SHIT!" When i have sex with my boyfriend i realize that i might get pregnant because his parts and my parts work.

Well, yes, however, if we are to treat a fetus like any other citizen, then (in the US at least), it does not have the right to force someone to give it's nutrients or bodily resources, wether consciously or not, under the ruling of McFall vs Shimp (at least that's what I think the name of the case is). Taking that in consideration, the fetus must be removed, which well... Is bascially what abortion is.

Originally Posted by Rmarques

Quite honestly, I'm still torn on that issue. So, for now I can0t give a definite answer.

Well, yes, however, if we are to treat a fetus like any other citizen, then (in the US at least), it does not have the right to force someone to give it's nutrients or bodily resources, wether consciously or not, under the ruling of McFall vs Shimp (at least that's what I think the name of the case is). Taking that in concideration, the fetus must be removed, which well... Is bascially what abortion is.

True, but i just find that people that use the argument, "i didn't give consent to pregnancy when i gave consent to sex" are just trying to find some lame reason to not take responsibility for their actions. If i jump off a bridge am i giving consent to death? It's just a pathetic argument imho.

It would be hard to fight because of course you would have to prove that a fetus is a living human in order to give it rights, like you said. :\

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

True, but i just find that people that use the argument, "i didn't give consent to pregnancy when i gave consent to sex" are just trying to find some lame reason to not take responsibility for their actions. If i jump off a bridge am i giving consent to death? It's just a pathetic argument imho.

And this is somewhere we disagree, since I believe that a woman that aborts an unwanted pregnancy is taking responsability, just as is the woman that puts the kid up for adoption (which can be argued that is running away from the responsailities of being a parent), or the woman that keeps the kid. It's a different, controversial way, yes, but a way. Also, if we are to follow the logic that since we are aware that sex leads to pregnancy, then by arguing that we are immediatly consenting to pregnancy (even when you take precautions to avoid it, such as contraception and even sterilization), I personaly find it similar to saying that I'm consenting to become road kill by crossing the street. :/

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

It would be hard to fight because of course you would have to prove that a fetus is a living human in order to give it rights, like you said. :\

Well, it IS alive and human, however,the main issue is wether or not it fits the legal definition of a person. And, there's also the fact that McFall vs Shimp already ruled that death is not a valid reason to force someone to give bodyly resource if you don't want to.

A woman who got raped should have the possibility to get rid of child if she really doesn't want it.

Well that sucks, trust me that does. I know a girl who had that happen to her. Its horrible. That doesn't give you the right to kill something. Have the baby, and take him or her to a fire station, police station, or hospital. They have the safe place thing, where they will take baby into care. Then you'll never have to do anything about it. There are also agency's you can go to take care of you if you have been rapped. Where you can have the child and either keep the child, or let it go to an adoption center. You can do that and not have to kill. Which is just as bad as the man who rapped you.

A twelve year old girl can't take care of herself let alone a child.

There is agency's that will take in rapped children, and women. They can take her in, help support them as the child is borne. Then they will also help you continue in your life. Sure its horrible to go through, but as stated above its killing.

A woman whose life it at risk if she carries through with the pregnancy.

If there if the child is already dead, and it will kill you if you have it that is the only time I believe you should have an abortion. You are always in danger of dying when having a baby. The risk is low but it is always there.

This is one of the issues I am completely torn about.
I guess your view relies on your moral objections and past expiriences.
Personally, if a mothe can't take care of a child then she shuold not have it
It wil only bring suffering to the child.

My opinion is, if you can't handle the consequences, DON'T HAVE SEX

Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity

My opinion is, if you can't handle the consequences, DON'T HAVE SEX

This attitude that unprotected sex is something that silly people should be punished for having really gets on my nerves. Sex isn't evil and a child shouldn't be a penalty.
Not to mention that pills fail and condoms break occasionally. You can be as careful as anything and still end up pregnant, if your luck's bad enough.

Originally Posted by Spatterdash

This attitude that unprotected sex is something that silly people should be punished for having really gets on my nerves. Sex isn't evil and a child shouldn't be a penalty.
Not to mention that pills fail and condoms break occasionally. You can be as careful as anything and still end up pregnant, if your luck's bad enough.

Sex is intended to make offspring! That is what its for, its not just a pastime, and something to feel your body with the wonderful feeling. When you have sex it is supposed to feel good, why? Because if it didn't there would be no kids, thus no world.

A child is what you get from sex, its just how it works.

If your following that do you want your parents to have had you killed by having an abortion? Then you wouldn't be here, and you would have to think its alright. Why? Because you think if you want you shouldn't have to have to deal with a little kid and just have an abortion.

Sex is how we get offspring, why do you think it creates kids. Put two and two together.

Thats some messed up logic dude.

I’m very much open to the idea of a women in “extreme conditions� (rape, age, etc) but I also think that if a women feels she is unable to care for herself let alone a child (as in she wouldn’t carry throu pregnancy in a healthful manner leaving the child either retarded, or with some other defect from drug or alcohol usage) that they should be able to have an abortion.
They should have to go throu some class/program on safe sex/be given the pill also. some somen just don't have the health care to get the pill (its VERY expensive on its own) and sometimes condoms break. it happens. Its not always the woman being "lazy".
I’m much more for adoption and things like that but seriously, if you know that the child is going to end up messed up and suffer it would be more like “saving� the thing to me.
I think it’s a very hard decision to make but should always be the womans and can sometimes be the best choice for mother and child.
Even if they are made illegal they will still happen, only in unsanitary “back ally� ways. =/
add on(s)

Also to above statement- humans and I believe apes and dolphins are the only beings who experience pleasure from sexual intercourse (why dolphins can be found mating with males). Its also an INSTINCT of males-once you hit puberty they want to stick it in stuff-its what happens. Some people have high enough morals/restraint to not do it and get their jollys in other ways but if you look back at history my great grandma was getting married and having kids at my age (17). Back in the day women were married off asap once they could have kids for a reason. The thing is now our culture is not only sending millions of mixed messages but has evolved much faster then our bodies could change.
12 yearolds aren't physicaly ABLE to carry throu with child birth. The reason so many people died when having kids back in the day was a mix of poor medical knowledge and because they were so young. If a 12 yearold got raped and became pregers the chance of her making it thou child birth would be small and the damage done to her body would be insane-let alone to make a young girl suffer more throu the birth would be terrible.

Originally Posted by Naiyo

Also to above statement- humans and I believe apes and dolphins are the only beings who experience pleasure from sexual intercourse (why dolphins can be found mating with males).

Actually, it's not so much that those're the only ones that feel pleasure, and more like those're the only ones that can be seen doing it just for the sake of doing it. While many animals have been found performing homsexual intercourse, on mxf pairings, I think we're among the few that do it for pleasure alone.

Originally Posted by Rmarques

Actually, it's not so much that those're the only ones that feel pleasure, and more like those're the only ones that can be seen doing it just for the sake of doing it. While many animals have been found performing homsexual intercourse, on mxf pairings, I think we're among the few that do it for pleasure alone.

I'm not sure exactly (I'm not on my home computer with saved links for referance) but I think its somehow related to two males who are willing to mate for the fact that it feels good even thou there will be no offspring produced. Like I said I'm not at home so I can't be for sure, but I do remember reading that a while back. *shrug*

Here is my opinion about abortion.

I think that abortion is unconstitutional. You are basically killing another human. There are only a few instances that abortion should be legalized.

If you don't want the baby or think you can't handle one, give it up for adoption. Another way to stop abortion is to not put yourself in a situation in where you have the possibility of having an unwanted baby.

Originally Posted by Rmarques

Actually, it's not so much that those're the only ones that feel pleasure, and more like those're the only ones that can be seen doing it just for the sake of doing it. While many animals have been found performing homsexual intercourse, on mxf pairings, I think we're among the few that do it for pleasure alone.

Pigs have orgasms that last for hours, so I'm told.
And don't forget bonobos! Bonobos have sex at the drop of a hat, with other bonobos of either gender. It plays a major part in their social development.
But I digress.

I think that abortion should be not only legal, but encouraged. So many people out there just shouldn't be having kids. If the abortion rates were up, the unloved oopsie-baby rate would go down, yes?
So lets see. I don't think that the children are officially alive until after they pop out of their mommie.
And what about all of those people who cant even support their 17 children and end up on the street or selling them or some shit?
And all of the 15 year old girls who just cant take care of a baby and would end up dropping out of school to take care of their kids and spend the rest of their lives living at their parents houses because they had no where else to go, no way to get a decent job, and everything is just too expensive to even be able to afford their own food.
And the silly little crack whore-druggies who cant even afford to keep the crack on their plate and you want them to have kids? It wont clean them up. It will just make the kids miserable. Half of them will try to force their kids in to prostitution just to make some extra cash on the side. You want to put those kids through that?

'But you can just give them up for adoption!'
Really? You can? Do you realize how much strain it puts on our economy to support the 1,000's of kids that are put up for adoption each year? Not enough people are adopting kids and too many people are having them. And after you reach a certain age, it's next to impossible to get adopted.
Everyone wants a shiny new baby, but no one wants a rusty old 10 year old.