Also, I've known quite a few people who have adopted newborns. Newborns always get adopted. There is a WAITING list for it. A good friend of mine that I worked with was on the waiting list for three years before she was finally, just recently, able to adopt. She told them she didn't care what race it was. The baby is black, and she still had to wait 3 years to be able to even have a chance. Newborns are always adopted.

If newborns are always adopted, then explain to me why so many children go through the system their entire childhoods. The reason why there is a waiting list, to the best of my understanding, is that there is a LOT of red tape involved in adopting a child. Obviously they won't just hand out kids to anyone, which brings the misconception that there's some kind of baby shortage.
There's not.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

actually, i am stating what was written by Dr. Miriam Grossman, a Campus Psychiatrist at Columbia University, researched and published in her book about what is more commonly felt. I would be more than happy to give you her name and the name of her book if you would like more proof you can either checkout her book "Unprotected" or checkout the website www.afterabortion.com

The site you have here appears to be a site for people who are suffering from depression post-abortion, so obviously it's not representing all the women who are getting abortions.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/12951.php
http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/aftercare.htm
Both sites have something in the range of 20% as the general rate of depression after abortion. Depression is a reasonably common reaction, but it is not the ONLY reaction and as the above statistics state it's not the most widely felt reaction.

Originally Posted by Fabby

If newborns are always adopted, then explain to me why so many children go through the system their entire childhoods. The reason why there is a waiting list, to the best of my understanding, is that there is a LOT of red tape involved in adopting a child. Obviously they won't just hand out kids to anyone, which brings the misconception that there's some kind of baby shortage.
There's not.


The site you have here appears to be a site for people who are suffering from depression post-abortion, so obviously it's not representing all the women who are getting abortions.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/12951.php
http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/aftercare.htm
Both sites have something in the range of 20% as the general rate of depression after abortion. Depression is a reasonably common reaction, but it is not the ONLY reaction and as the above statistics state it's not the most widely felt reaction.

i never meant to imply that all women feel depression from their abortions. but, alot of ppl don't mention the depression either so i felt it was necessary to at least bring it up. and when i said "more common", i meant it more as more common than people would lead u to believe. obviously no, not everyone is going to feel the same. but quite a few people and organizations still refuse to believe that the abortion is causing the depression in any way, shape or form. and besides, i'd like to know if any men were polled as well.

Now I'm interested in the rate of depression (short term or chronic) for women who give children up to adoption...

*goes on a google caper!*

it may very well be quite staggeringly high, but it's kind of messed up how alot of times women see abortion as such a great cure. you almost never hear about anything but the relief that some women feel, or sometimes the people who run the clinics dont describe the procedures well. there are alot of things that people just AREN'T told

Why women don't adopt out when faced with an unwanted child

This woman wishes she had aborted instead of adopted out.

How some adoption agencies can be very coercive and downright evil.

PPD affects birth mothers too

More on PPD for birth mothers

Didn't really find the statistics I was looking for :/

Originally Posted by Keyori

Why women don't adopt out when faced with an unwanted child

This woman wishes she had aborted instead of adopted out.

How some adoption agencies can be very coercive and downright evil.

PPD affects birth mothers too

More on PPD for birth mothers

ok, congradulations. but how is that any different than Planned Parenthood telling pregnant that their abortions are safe? or that

Originally Posted by "Planned Parenthood" pg. 92 of "Unprotected" by Miriam Grossman

Planned Parenthood considers symptoms of trauma following abortion a "non-existent phenomenon" circulated by "anti-family planning extremists

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

ok, congradulations. but how is that any different than Planned Parenthood telling pregnant that their abortions are safe? or that

Do you happen to have a link to the quote about planned parenthood?

Originally Posted by MollyJean

Do you happen to have a link to the quote about planned parenthood?

no, i do not. It is straight out of the book i quoted. all i have is the page number and i took it from the book word for word so it could be googled and verified.

"Anti-family planning extremists"? What does that even mean?

And can I get the ISDN on that book please?

Unless that book cites that data, it is merely the author's opinion and should not be regarded as fact.

I can get a lot of things published that aren't true, just saying...

Originally Posted by Keyori

"Anti-family planning extremists"? What does that even mean?

And can I get the ISDN on that book please?

the ISBN is 978-1-59-523045-4, and it was previously published under the name Anonymous, M.D.

Strangely, I found the opposite on 2 sites against abortion stating the following.

Planned Parenthood admits that 'Women can have a variety of emotions following an abortion (grief, depression, anger, guilt, relief, etc.)(1.10

Although there is disagreement on the percentages of women who suffer psychological harm from abortion, most researchers agree that certain factors increase the probability of damage. The PPFA states that about five percent of all women who abort will endure severe psychiatric disturbances, and that several categories of women are at high risk.10

On looking at the Planned parenthood website, I find a number of resources to deal with post abortion stress and depression.

Originally Posted by MollyJean

Strangely, I found the opposite on 2 sites against abortion stating the following.



On looking at the Planned parenthood website, I find a number of resources to deal with post abortion stress and depression.

well, im not a doctor, nor a researcher or any authority on anything. What I have is a book written by a doctor who backs up her claims with articles and other resources. if I am wrong, then it's because she is wrong or i am dictating it wrong. not because im just another ignorant man.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

i never meant to imply that all women feel depression from their abortions. but, alot of ppl don't mention the depression either so i felt it was necessary to at least bring it up. and when i said "more common", i meant it more as more common than people would lead u to believe. obviously no, not everyone is going to feel the same. but quite a few people and organizations still refuse to believe that the abortion is causing the depression in any way, shape or form. and besides, i'd like to know if any men were polled as well.

What about the "baby blues" - women who have depression after giving birth and giving children up for adoption?

I find it funny you completely ignore their depression.

If a man can force a woman to remain pregnant, then should he be able to force a woman to have an abortion?

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

well, im not a doctor, nor a researcher or any authority on anything. What I have is a book written by a doctor who backs up her claims with articles and other resources. if I am wrong, then it's because she is wrong or i am dictating it wrong. not because im just another ignorant man.

You're taking offence to my research. There's no need for that.

I would just suggest you do your own before trusting anyone, even ME, blindly. Would you like the sources for the 2 sites I found so you can look yourself?

Miriam Grossman's PHD is being abused. She has her degree in psychology and yet she tries to argue how genetics means that people cannot be born in the wrong gendered body. And she uses no sources to back herself up other than relying on "common knowledge" about a Y chromosome.

She's got an agenda, she's not concerned about truth, she's concerned with making large amounts of money off of book deals.

Originally Posted by Kris

What about the "baby blues" - women who have depression after giving birth and giving children up for adoption?

I find it funny you completely ignore their depression.

If a man can force a woman to remain pregnant, then should he be able to force a woman to have an abortion?

i am not ignoring their depression lol. it is a well known fact that people get "baby blues" but it is not so well known that relief is NOT the only thing people feel after an abortion. and i dont know who said that last part, but I have never forced anything on any one. just because i believe that abortion's should not be done unless it is to save the mother's life, doesnt mean i believe women should be forced to stay pregnant

Originally Posted by Keyori

Miriam Grossman's PHD is being abused. She has her degree in psychology and yet she tries to argue how genetics means that people cannot be born in the wrong gendered body. And she uses no sources to back herself up other than relying on "common knowledge" about a Y chromosome.

She's got an agenda, she's not concerned about truth, she's concerned with making large amounts of money off of book deals.

And now I think I'll go do a little of my own research about the woman, thank you.

Originally Posted by Keyori

Miriam Grossman's PHD is being abused. She has her degree in psychology and yet she tries to argue how genetics means that people cannot be born in the wrong gendered body. And she uses no sources to back herself up other than relying on "common knowledge" about a Y chromosome.

She's got an agenda, she's not concerned about truth, she's concerned with making large amounts of money off of book deals.

ok, i am willing to concede that maybe she does. i have no way to say if she does or if she doesnt. but if even a little bit of what she says IS true, doesn't that show that she may not be the only one with an agenda?

@molly- please do, I have nothing to hide. I have no problems admitting my own ignorance.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

ok, i am willing to concede that maybe she does. i have no way to say if she does or if she doesnt. but if even a little bit of what she says IS true, doesn't that show that she may not be the only one with an agenda?

But why does HER book push your opinion more then any other? I'm a little curious as to the reason for your support of a woman you really know nothing about.

I'd also like to add a paper by a Doctor of Neuroanatomy that explains that sex is in the brain, not just the genitals, which is leading more of the scientific community to believe that the brain can be a distinctly opposite gender from the genitals, which can cause transgenderism.

Oh, and he's from Berkeley. I'm trying to find out more information from him, but I don't think he'd have gainful employment in academia if he was a total crock.

So, Dr. Grossman is not only trying to lecture outside of her field of expertise, but is using inadequate and unsupported reasoning for asserting that the Y chromosome (or lack thereof) is alone what determines gender.

Originally Posted by MollyJean

But why does HER book push your opinion more then any other? I'm a little curious as to the reason for your support of a woman you really know nothing about.

because it makes sense to me. here, instead of jumping so far down my throat that u could stab ur heal out behind my testicles, y dont u try telling me something that I dont know, or that u think i don't know. im not trying to stay ignorant, im willing to listen and learn

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

because it makes sense to me. here, instead of jumping so far down my throat that u could stab ur heal out behind my testicles, y dont u try telling me something that I dont know, or that u think i don't know. im not trying to stay ignorant, im willing to listen and learn

I haven't brought up your gender at all, and have been treating you with respect, despite the fact that I am countering your discussion points. This is how a debate should work. Again you're taking offence to what I'm saying. Stop that or I'll be forced to ignore you, and I honestly don't want to.

But if you want to learn something you don't know, consider this.

You likely where against abortion before you found out about this woman or her book. You likely saw her views and they matched your own, so you decided rather then having your own opinion, you would use those of someone with a PHD. This is, at least, what I am seeing. I think you could learn something about yourself from this idea.

Personally, I would be more impressed if you gave us your own opinions on the matter, and not quotes from a book.

I found Dr. Diamond's credentials, by the way.

Dr. Diamond is professor of Anatomy/Neuroanatomy at the University of California, Berkeley, and is a former Director of the Lawrence Hall of Science. She did research at Harvard, and taught at Cornell and the University of California at San Francisco and at Los Angeles, and at universities in China, Australia, and Africa.

She received the Outstanding Teaching Award and Distinguished Teacher's Award from the University of California, and is a member of the American Association of University Women Hall of Fame. In 1989-90, she received the CASE Award, California Professor of the Year, and National Gold Medallist, and she was made a member of the San Francisco Chronicle Hall of Fame. She was the fourth woman to become the Alumnus of the Year at the University of California at Berkeley. She is a Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science and a member of the California Academy of Science.

Dr. Diamond makes a living doing research and contributing to the scientific community.

Compared to Dr. Grossman:

Miriam Grossman, M.D, is the author of You're Teaching My Child What? A Physician Exposes the Lies of Sex Education and How They Harm Your Child, published in August 2009 by Regnery Publishing. In 2006 her book, Unprotected: A Campus Psychiatrist Reveals How Political Correctness Endangers Every Student, was published by Sentinel (Penguin).

Dr. Grossman graduated cum laude from Bryn Mawr College. She attended New York University Medical School and completed her residency in psychiatry, followed by a fellowship in child and adolescent psychiatry, through Cornell University.

Dr. Grossman is also the author of Wonder of Becoming You: How a Jewish Girl Grows Up, published in 1988.

She lives in Los Angeles with her family and a beagle, Willie Prozac.

Dr. Grossman makes a living writing books and scheduling to speak about the evils of comprehensive sex ed.

I think it should be a little more obvious who should be talking on the subject of gender.

I also find it interesting that Dr. Grossman has named a pet after a psychotic drug. I wonder how much she makes from Eli Lilly...

Originally Posted by MollyJean

I haven't brought up your gender at all, and have been treating you with respect, despite the fact that I am countering your discussion points. This is how a debate should work. Again you're taking offence to what I'm saying. Stop that or I'll be forced to ignore you, and I honestly don't want to.

But if you want to learn something you don't know, consider this.

You likely where against abortion before you found out about this woman or her book. You likely saw her views and they matched your own, so you decided rather then having your own opinion, you would use those of someone with a PHD. This is, at least, what I am seeing. I think you could learn something about yourself from this idea.

Personally, I would be more impressed if you gave us your own opinions on the matter, and not quotes from a book.

I will concede this point to u, i was against abortion before the book and it match her own. and u r treating me with alot more respect now than you did currently, and for that I thank you. I honestly did not come here to have fights with people. especially with those for whom this is already a touchy subject. but my view is this: the morning after pill is acceptable since in my perspective, it is not a baby that early after conception. but once that pill is no longer an option, it is a baby. and an abortion, with the sole exceptions being forced to give it up(a minor gets pregnant, family FORCES her to give it up through various means) or because to have the baby would mean that the mother would die. I believe that most times, people have abortions because of mistakes THEY made, not the child. so y should it be killed? Other times, that is not the case. but my question stays the same. y should the child be killed? There are some very terrible ways women have gotten pregnant. I am not heartless, I am not without sympathy. But I do put that baby's life in higher esteem than the mother's misfortunes. In my opinion, almost anything is better than abortion. at least with the gift of life, it has a chance to succeed. but with abortion, it has absolutely NO chance at all. I don't hate women who have had abortions, I dont look upon them with scorn or malice like some do, I just feel it was a mistake. That's all.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

but my view is this: the morning after pill is acceptable since in my perspective, it is not a baby that early after conception

The morning after pill does not terminate pregnancy, it prevents conception altogether.