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-   -   Debate: Gay Marriage (https://www.menewsha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72231)

Rmarques 11-08-2007 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

Oh agreed. the woman i work with annoys me so much. She's always preaching, "Follow the bible. Follow God. If not you're going to hell. Homosexuals should be executed because it is the worst thing you could do! It's revolting." For a woman who is so gung ho on the bible, i wonder if she fails to see the 6 men who aren't her husband that she has had affairs with in the past year. hmmm.
Sounds like someone Fred Phelps would get along with.

Kyoko Otonashi 11-08-2007 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

Oh agreed. the woman i work with annoys me so much. She's always preaching, "Follow the bible. Follow God. If not you're going to hell. Homosexuals should be executed because it is the worst thing you could do! It's revolting." For a woman who is so gung ho on the bible, i wonder if she fails to see the 6 men who aren't her husband that she has had affairs with in the past year. hmmm.

That's just disgusting.
She gives a bad name to Christians everywhere, which in turn pushes others away with the wrong concept of how christians are and the way we behave.

"Homosexuals should be executed"?
She's just plain nuts, you should definitely repress her from your memories.
My mother was the same way when it came to religion
Which is why I considered myself athiest for so many years.
But after having the opportunity to experience what I have, I changed.
It's all recent too~
She's nice overall, but i avoid political discussion with her like the plague for that very reason. I'm a huge human rights activist.

My mom's the worst. After the madrid bombings a few years back (she's spanish) she wanted all muslims to be deported out of her country because "we did it to the jews too!" and when i asked her why we shouldn't give gays rights, she said, "we gave it to the blacks, and look what happened to them". Yes, my mom (as much as i adore her) scares the crap outta me!!!

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 03:39 PM
Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmarques

Actually, they may be enraged because the church doesn't stays out of their bussiness, and encorages people to speak agaisnt we gettign the rights we're denied. Just a thought.
If only
Churches do preach that homosexuality is wrong, but you only get the picket signs and flyers from the fanatical churches.
Most Christians don't like to correlate themselves with the fanatical churches, in fact we stand against them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmarques
If it's oh-so-holly to Christians, then why don't you complain over other religions and the legal system using the word? I mean, surely, you should also be offended that your cerimony is being lumped together with the cerimonies of heathens.

And answer me this, why should this scenario take place:

Hetero atheist couple goes to the cityhall, signs and piece of paper, and says "We just got married!"

Gay couple goes to the cityhall, signs a piece of paper and says "We just got out civil union!"

It's the same thing, why should we call it a different name?

Please, don't tell me you've never heard a Christian complain about the word being used loosley.
If you haven't, then where have you been?

Unfortunately I don't think you will be able to comprehend where Im coming from.
I keep repeating myself over and over in this thread only to be stopped because people don't think my religious believes validate my opinions.
News for you, it does.
Otherwise I wouldn't be bringing it up.

SexualPlacebo 11-08-2007 03:40 PM
But people like the crazy freak who has affairs with nearly everyone, from what i've seen. xD Are what's bringing religion down and making people dismiss everything. Hence the argument. You can't just repress her from your memories.

Anyway, I say, Live and let live. :3

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

She's nice overall, but i avoid political discussion with her like the plague for that very reason. I'm a huge human rights activist.

My mom's the worst. After the madrid bombings a few years back (she's spanish) she wanted all muslims to be deported out of her country because "we did it to the jews too!" and when i asked her why we shouldn't give gays rights, she said, "we gave it to the blacks, and look what happened to them". Yes, my mom (as much as i adore her) scares the crap outta me!!!

Oh lawdy, just the makings of a different generation I guess.
Is she southern?
XD

Haha, I can't talk to my mom either
It's weird how half of my family is gay in a way, and the other half are die-hard religious nuts
I came to be somewhere in the middle, or at least I hope.
Most of my friends tend to be gay too

Rmarques 11-08-2007 03:46 PM
Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity

Please, don't tell me you've never heard a Christian complain about the word being used loosley.
If you haven't, then where have you been?
Nope, can't say I have. As for where I've been... Portugal, and the internet. And I've seen some pretty crazy fanatics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Unfortunately I don't think you will be able to comprehend where Im coming from.
I keep repeating myself over and over in this thread only to be stopped because people don't think my religious believes validate my opinions.
News for you, it does.
Otherwise I wouldn't be bringing it up.
You believe that marriage is a cerimony between a man and a woman, and thus, anythign deviating from that should be called something different. Isn't that where you are coming from?

I'm simply asking, why should a legal affair be named differently from the very same legal affair, simply because of the sex of the people signing it.

Kyoko Otonashi 11-08-2007 03:53 PM
Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmarques
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity

Please, don't tell me you've never heard a Christian complain about the word being used loosley.
If you haven't, then where have you been?
Nope, can't say I have. As fot where I've been... Portugal, and the internet. And I've seen some pretty crazy fanatics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Unfortunately I don't think you will be able to comprehend where Im coming from.
I keep repeating myself over and over in this thread only to be stopped because people don't think my religious believes validate my opinions.
News for you, it does.
Otherwise I wouldn't be bringing it up.
You believe that marriage is a cerimony between a man and a woman, and thus, anythign deviating from that should be called something different. Isn't that where you are coming from?

I'm simply asking, why should a legal affair be named differently from the very same legal affair, simply because of the sex of the people signing it.
I don't think that we should call a legal union between 2 men or 2 women a "civil union" or whatever just because christians don't like it. Too bad. Atheists get "married" too! The church needs to keep its nose out of the law, seriously. Giving it a different name does one thing: opens it up for further descrimination.

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 03:54 PM
RMarques
Then go to church and listen.
I hear it a lot, especially from people who frequent church.
You live in Portugal?
You need to visit Texas, USA.
Then you'll see some fanatics
x]

Yep, i do believe that.
Tax relief and benefits that came with marriage didn't were never mentioned in the Bible, so as far as that goes Im all for gays getting the rights.
But to do it from the Church is the wrong way.

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 03:55 PM
Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

I don't think that we should call a legal union between 2 men or 2 women a "civil union" or whatever just because christians don't like it. Too bad. Atheists get "married" too! The church needs to keep its nose out of the law, seriously. Giving it a different name does one thing: opens it up for further descrimination.

But doing so would be the law sticking it's nose into religion.
Christianity isn't the only religion that forbids homosexuality.
In fact, it's one of the most lieniant considering most of them call for the execution of gays.

Kyoko Otonashi 11-08-2007 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
RMarques
Then go to church and listen.
I hear it a lot, especially from people who frequent church.
You live in Portugal?
You need to visit Texas, USA.
Then you'll see some fanatics
x]

Yep, i do believe that.
Tax relief and benefits that came with marriage didn't were never mentioned in the Bible, so as far as that goes Im all for gays getting the rights.
But to do it from the Church is the wrong way.
No ones asking for them to marry in the church, though. I feel we shud respect the church's beliefs. But the church should also respect the state's purpose

juno rally 11-08-2007 03:57 PM
Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

I don't think that we should call a legal union between 2 men or 2 women a "civil union" or whatever just because christians don't like it. Too bad. Atheists get "married" too! The church needs to keep its nose out of the law, seriously. Giving it a different name does one thing: opens it up for further descrimination.

But doing so would be the law sticking it's nose into religion.
Christianity isn't the only religion that forbids homosexuality.
In fact, it's one of the most lieniant considering most of them call for the execution of gays.
actually its your religion thats sticking its nose into the law in this case.

marrage has been around a lot longer than christianity and its always been the law thats decided things.

Rmarques 11-08-2007 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
RMarques
Then go to church and listen.
I hear it a lot, especially from people who frequent church.
You live in Portugal?
You need to visit Texas, USA.
Then you'll see some fanatics
x]
Heh, no need to go. We have live broadcast of Mass every Sunday. This is a 90% Catholic country. :P

Eerrr... No thanks. I've been turned off vising South of the US ever since the Dixie Chicks incident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Yep, i do believe that.
Tax relief and benefits that came with marriage didn't were never mentioned in the Bible, so as far as that goes Im all for gays getting the rights.
But to do it from the Church is the wrong way.
But then, shouldn't you believe that the state should change the name of civil marriages to civil unions?

Kyoko Otonashi 11-08-2007 04:02 PM
Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

I don't think that we should call a legal union between 2 men or 2 women a "civil union" or whatever just because christians don't like it. Too bad. Atheists get "married" too! The church needs to keep its nose out of the law, seriously. Giving it a different name does one thing: opens it up for further descrimination.

But doing so would be the law sticking it's nose into religion.
Christianity isn't the only religion that forbids homosexuality.
In fact, it's one of the most lieniant considering most of them call for the execution of gays.
marriage wasn't exclusively created by christian's, though. It's been around since before chritianity. before even judaism. The celts got married too. The law is only sticking its nose into religion if they require the church to allow gays to marry. The church, however, is sticking it's nose in the law by saying that gays shouldn't marry because the bible says so.

I mean come on, if Brittany Spears can marry why can't 2 men that love each other more than life itself be allowed to marry? :p

juno rally 11-08-2007 04:18 PM
were i come from the church alows lods of things to happen in its walls that have nothing to do with the religion.

heck they even have pagan harvist festivals. so i really cant see why two people of the same sex cant get married?

i mean why is it such a problem?

infact could some one please put the exact quote of page of the bible were it says that people of the same sex cant get married please.

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

No ones asking for them to marry in the church, though. I feel we shud respect the church's beliefs. But the church should also respect the state's purpose
Au contraire, they are fighting to be married through the church
They see that they shouldn't be restricted from anything

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 04:53 PM
Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by juno rally

actually its your religion thats sticking its nose into the law in this case.

marrage has been around a lot longer than christianity and its always been the law thats decided things.

Not really, marriage as a holy union has been around since even before judaism.
It depends on which side your coming from
I see it as the law intruding on a belief important to the very fabric of individual life.
You see it as a restriction placed upon innocent individuals simply because of the life they choose.

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmarques
But then, shouldn't you believe that the state should change the name of civil marriages to civil unions?
What?

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by juno rally
were i come from the church alows lods of things to happen in its walls that have nothing to do with the religion.

heck they even have pagan harvist festivals. so i really cant see why two people of the same sex cant get married?

i mean why is it such a problem?

infact could some one please put the exact quote of page of the bible were it says that people of the same sex cant get married please.

"In truth, the Bible does not mention gay marriage, mainly because in the time it was written the concept was unheard of. There are several sections that do concern marriage, including a reference that a man may take several wives, and a man is obligated to marry his brother's widow (something Henry VIII famously re-interpreted for his own purposes."

But, it does say that homosexuality is wrong, and you can't be hetero if your marrying the same sex.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13

Rmarques 11-08-2007 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmarques
But then, shouldn't you believe that the state should change the name of civil marriages to civil unions?
What?
You believe that Marriage is a religious cerimony, correct? Then, shouldn't you believe that what we today call marriage on a legal level, should be renamed to civil union, so it won't interfer with religion?

Rmarques 11-08-2007 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Quote:
Originally Posted by juno rally
were i come from the church alows lods of things to happen in its walls that have nothing to do with the religion.

heck they even have pagan harvist festivals. so i really cant see why two people of the same sex cant get married?

i mean why is it such a problem?

infact could some one please put the exact quote of page of the bible were it says that people of the same sex cant get married please.

"In truth, the Bible does not mention gay marriage, mainly because in the time it was written the concept was unheard of. There are several sections that do concern marriage, including a reference that a man may take several wives, and a man is obligated to marry his brother's widow (something Henry VIII famously re-interpreted for his own purposes). Sections of the Bible that have been quoted to support arguments that marriage is only between a man and a woman are actually interpretations of passages – for instance, Genesis has been argued to lay down the law on the issue, but really only describes a story of one marriage without laying down any rules."

But, it does say that homosexuality is wrong, and you can't be hetero if your marrying the same sex.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13
You do know that you no longer have to follow Leviticus (since Jesus fulfilled, as in, put an end, those laws), and hat that verse only talks about manxman sex, right?

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmarques
You believe that Marriage is a religious cerimony, correct? Then, shouldn't you believe that what we today call marriage on a legal level, should be renamed to civil union, so it won't interfer with religion?
That issue has been brought up many years ago when the empires were declaring marriage through catholicism.
Basically, I feel that you shouldn't marry through a church if your not dedicated the the certain religion which your trying to be married through, or else it is invalid in the eyes of whatever God you wish to worship.

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmarques
You do know that you no longer have to follow Leviticus (since Jesus fulfilled, as in, put an end, those laws), and hat that verse only talks about manxman sex, right?
The New Testament says over and over again that homosexuality is forbidden, it says that homosexuality is a detestable practice deserving of punishment by God - one that leads directly to hell and eternal torture. Something that has been brought up in the Old Testament is now being reinforced in the New Testament. According to Corinthians 1:6, "if they were truly saved, then they would be cured of their homosexuality; they would be converted to heterosexuality."

juno rally 11-08-2007 05:16 PM
actually i see marrage as the union of two persons (be they from any background or place) that wish to live there lives blessed in one-anothers company.

i dont see a god being involved in the two persons union unless the two persons wish one to be.

i dont see it as a restriction as you say and please would you not be so rude as to say i am saying a negative aspect of something when i havent even said my defanition of the subject! its really not polite or called for! im here for a debate not an argument or for some one to twist my words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Quote:
Originally Posted by juno rally
were i come from the church alows lods of things to happen in its walls that have nothing to do with the religion.

heck they even have pagan harvist festivals. so i really cant see why two people of the same sex cant get married?

i mean why is it such a problem?

infact could some one please put the exact quote of page of the bible were it says that people of the same sex cant get married please.

"In truth, the Bible does not mention gay marriage, mainly because in the time it was written the concept was unheard of. There are several sections that do concern marriage, including a reference that a man may take several wives, and a man is obligated to marry his brother's widow (something Henry VIII famously re-interpreted for his own purposes."

But, it does say that homosexuality is wrong, and you can't be hetero if your marrying the same sex.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13
yes and it has other opinions like the death sentance (see another topic of that debate) that are not used.

that line only mentions sex and not the union of it.

oh and yes there was such things as that going on as if there wasnt there wouldnt be a line like that. man to man relationships have always been around its just at that time it was really taboo and was never public.

Rmarques 11-08-2007 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmarques
You do know that you no longer have to follow Leviticus (since Jesus fulfilled, as in, put an end, those laws), and hat that verse only talks about manxman sex, right?
The New Testament says over and over again that homosexuality is forbidden, it says that homosexuality is a detestable practice deserving of punishment by God - one that leads directly to hell and eternal torture. Something that has been brought up in the Old Testament is now being reinforced in the New Testament. According to Corinthians 1:6, "if they were truly saved, then they would be cured of their homosexuality; they would be converted to heterosexuality."
... No it doesn't. For starters, there was no word that could translated as homosexuality before the 19th century.

Despite that, Corinthians 1:6 says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthians 1:6
"even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,"
You're probably thinking about 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

ToxicQuiddity 11-08-2007 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by juno rally
actually i see marrage as the union of two persons (be they from any background or place) that wish to live there lives blessed in one-anothers company.

i dont see a god being involved in the two persons union unless the two persons wish one to be.

i dont see it as a restriction as you say and please would you not be so rude as to say i am saying a negative aspect of something when i havent even said my defanition of the subject! its really not polite or called for! im here for a debate not an argument or for some one to twist my words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicQuiddity
Quote:
Originally Posted by juno rally
were i come from the church alows lods of things to happen in its walls that have nothing to do with the religion.

heck they even have pagan harvist festivals. so i really cant see why two people of the same sex cant get married?

i mean why is it such a problem?

infact could some one please put the exact quote of page of the bible were it says that people of the same sex cant get married please.

"In truth, the Bible does not mention gay marriage, mainly because in the time it was written the concept was unheard of. There are several sections that do concern marriage, including a reference that a man may take several wives, and a man is obligated to marry his brother's widow (something Henry VIII famously re-interpreted for his own purposes."

But, it does say that homosexuality is wrong, and you can't be hetero if your marrying the same sex.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13
yes and it has other opinions like the death sentance (see another topic of that debate) that are not used.

that line only mentions sex and not the union of it.

oh and yes there was such things as that going on as if there wasnt there wouldnt be a line like that. man to man relationships have always been around its just at that time it was really taboo and was never public.

As I have said before, it's a matter of opinions
Mine is validated through my religion, and since your obviously not Christian than I don't see how you can compare the both of us.

Do you not believe that they will have sex if they are wanting to be married?
Don't bring up such trivial technicalities.

What did I do that offended you?
o_O;


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