While one bad decision lead to another, it is in NO WAY the victims fault. No one deserves to be violated in such a way. It wouldn't be rape if someone ASKED for it.

Those of you who have said that the victim has any fault in being raped have absolutely sickened me.

You say that women should not wear clothes that can make people horny. But what about the fact that everyone has different tastes? If a man rapes me and says that it's my fault because I was wearing flip-flops and feet turn him on, is it my fault that I wore flip-flops?
If a man is raped and he was shirtless, is it his fault for being shirtless?
If a woman wore a turtleneck and jeans, but they were tight fitting, is it still her fault?

In order to avoid being raped due to what someone wears, should we all be forced to wear clothes which show no inch of our body and cover our faces? After all, that is the only way that you cannot show off something that someone might like, something that might turn someone on.

And then you tell them not to act "like they want it". What does that entail? If I chat with someone, smile at them, laugh at their jokes, and just in general be friendly, but they think I'm flirting, am I asking for it? If I dance, and someone thinks that it's provocative because I swing my hips, am I asking for it? Let's go back to that man with the foot fetish -- if I let him give me a foot massage, am I asking for it?

Why should we tell women that unless they were covered from head to toe, unless they were sitting in a corner and not talking (since any act can be read as flirting, if someone really wants to think that you're flirting with them), and always in a group, then they have some fault in the situation? Why should we tell them that they need to alter their lives and live in fear, and unless they don't, they play some part in whatever bad might happen to them?

Instead, why don't we try and tell people that no means no, and that you can never, never have sex with someone who does not give full consent? Wearing a miniskirt is not consent to sex.
Grinding against someone is not consent to sex.
Kissing someone is not consent to sex.
Marriage is not consent to sex.
Flirting is not consent to sex.
Wearing a low-cut top is not consent to sex.

Get that through your minds.

By definition it can never be the victim's fault.

@Kris- Not that I particularly agree with the idea that the victim is at fault, but there is a difference between clearly hanging all over a guy in a super slutty outfit and wearing flipflops and being misinterpreted. :\ It's not about living your life in fear, just using some common friggin' sense. Dressing like a whore and acting like a whore is clearly not going to put you in any GOOD situations with strange guys, now is it?

Hmmm, usually when I think of rape I think of someone being dragged into a dark alley with a bloody knife to their throat. In the cases you speak of I don't think it's completely the rapists fault, there is still some fault the victim has. It sounds like they were date-raped. I mean, it's not exactly like they were asking for it. But say if they didn't go out and party then they wouldn't have been raped. They have a little fault on their hands because they did make-out with said person after meeting them in one night. In those conditions alone it's fair to say that something bad would have happened, it usually does when people move too fast. However they weren't asking to be raped but just made it a whole lot easier to be. For instance, walking home alone at night is pretty dangerous at that late hour and getting into a near stranger's car is even more. Sometimes people just don't make sense to me when they do blatantly stupid things like that. They didn't deserve it but could have done more to prevent it.

I don't think the victim is at fault if they get raped while wearing a slutty outfit in a dark alley.. I just think they should understand that it is a serious lapse in judgment. It's your own job to protect yourself.

But the majority of rapes don't happen that way anyway, like Caroline said >_>

The victims fault ? ha, that makes me laugh, why would a victim WANT to be raped, they dress like that to attract someone meaningful and to show off a little, not to attract a maniac.
Its the rapers fault because its HIM in his mind thats driving him to do it, even if they talk to him mean he'll still want more.
So its the rapers fault for not resisting and the victims innocent because they want a good nice night with friends.

Majority of scenarios show it is the rapist who is at fault, and that the victim never asked for it. Although that may be true, I have heard of girls dressing like sluts because they want that kind of response. As sick as that may seem, some people simultaneously get their kicks and thrills ( and fears ) from such responses. Though, if someone's somehow asking for it, I guess in a way it isn't the rapist's fault.

It's pretty DAMN alarming that most of the thread-goers here subscribe to outdated and disproved rape myths.

Are you serious. I made it to the end of the first sentence and almost inhaled my cigarette.

The definition for rape has been posted several times. I still fail to see how people are mistaking the definition of it and the meaning behind it. R.A.P.E. Rape. It is forced sexual intercourse where one or more members are not agreeing to it. If people are dressing for that kind of response it isn't rape.

You do realize some people like the whole 'forced' thing. They get their jollies off. Which in that case would NOT be rape. The intent by the rapist may have been that, but the intent of the victim (in the rapist eyes) is not being raped. In those very few incidents it isn't rape. But actual rape is NEVER the victims fault.

Depends on the situations I guess, if a girl willingly walks into an alley out back of a sleezy bar, gets naked and spreads her legs and happens to get raped, I'd say its just as much her fault as it is the guy who did its but I doubt that happens too often (though most likely it does happen) so it really depends, you have to be smart, if you do something stupid like that and end up getting raped its a lesson learned I guess, and victim is a bad word to use, "survivor" is the general term used since nobody should see themselves as a "victim" its demeaning.

I was gonn say something but i think Your Fallen Angel said all i had to say XD

You have one Hollywood/Porno-ized idea of rape... makes me wonder what you'd think of a REALISTIC rape scenario.

I think it depends. I'm sure most of the time it is completely the rapers fault but I do believe that in some causes the victum could've done or not done something to prevent it. In both of the senarios you suggested, I think some of the fault belonged to the victums.

Why don't we stop expecting a potential victim to somehow change the mind of a rape-minded individual and punish people that rape? Why not teach men that they also have a responsibility to prevent rape?

I never said the men weren't responsible. I'm just saying that people should think more about the consequences of their actions. Nowadays it is common sense for a female not to walk home alone at two in the morning if it can be helped. And if you're going to a party full of guys you don't know in a tank top and a mini skirt what would be the reason for that? It's all for attention. Some people may even say that some girls are 'asking to get raped'.

I do too.... I mean how the heck does a six year old act "sexy"?! At least that was my cousin's defense tactic....

Is it ever the victim's fault? I mean, they're not the ones asking someone to rape them. It's the rapist who makes that choice, so yeah, I don't think it's ever the victim's fault.

It's INHERENT that since we're in a thread arguing ways to MAKE it a woman's fault and responsibility for the violation of THEIR bodies and the DEhumanization of them that men are automatically excused for their behaviors.

Consequences as in just desserts?

Considering women are MORE likely to be attacked in their own homes by people they know (friends, boyfriends, grandfathers, fathers, brothers, uncles... how well do you KNOW your family members?) and while they're sleeping too...! I don't think RAPE should be a consequence of walking/driving (or riding a bus/being picked up) from work, but apparently it IS so we might as well tell women to get back in the kitchen.

WAIT. You mean to tell me that rape LUST and SEX rather than power? :insane:

..OR, she could like the way something looks and wear it. OR she could be burning up and decide to wear something cooler for the weather. OR like you said: attention.

But NONE of that ever says "please rape me"--if it did, there'd be NO such thing as rape.

Kind of like how y—oh wait. If I say that I can't guarantee a positive or even neutral outcome.

@ Kah Hilzin-Ec: Subject: rape. Post: related to rape. Analysis: NOT irrelevant.

victim is never responsible

I know what she said. It's still relevant to her post since it addressing her post.

So does this mean rape is about sex and lust rather than power AND that victims purposely attract rapists?

Humans might be animals, but we have power over our instincts (I must have missed my retarded rapist that everyone must coddle and excuse instinct when it was handed out). We have self-control. We learn it from childhood with proper parenting and we also develop empathy. If there's problems learning it and growing empathy, sometimes we get therapy.

So stripping a rapist of their humanity and power to control themselves... is not valid nor is it helpful to getting their problems fixed. It actually excuses them from addressing the problems that make them think raping someone will solve their problems.

There's a difference between bashing someone and disagreeing in a dark sarcastic tone born of watching victims get hammered down into NOTHING but chamber pots for the general populace to crap ignorance all over.

Oh my... here we go again: "I'm not saying it's the victim's fault, but can't we shovel off just a tiny bit of fault on her?"

It's just like saying "I'm not racist, but... (racially charged comment and-or generalization that spawns a 30,000-page wankfest)!"

A dog can choose? Really? So what makes a rapist so special that he can't choose between raping and NOT-raping? What animalistic urge--NOT related sex and lust (because for the last fucking time: it's about power, NOT sex)--would be too irresistible to ignore and act like a decent human being?