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-   -   Abortion and your views on it. (https://www.menewsha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71619)

Chinen Yuuri 03-25-2008 07:27 AM

I agree with some that abortion should be a choice. No one should be able to stand in judgment of anyone's choice. We all have different circumstances and life isn't the same for everyone.

There will always be exceptions to every rule, so to say "if you spread your legs" isn't a fair rule. Everyone should be educated on how to protect themselves and if an unintended pregnancy results, they should have a choice.

Ms. Karlovich's comments connecting PTSD to abortion is absurd. People have regrets about all types of decisions. I have regrets about not speaking to one of my siblings...to the point of stress and bad dreams. The fact that we all have a choice whether or not to do things in life is freedom and we all should have that.

Abortion is a "CHOICE" that each individual woman makes for herself. There are many reasons for the choice that is made and yes, I'm sure that there are psychological aspects to making and living with this choice. But as a woman, I want to have the freedom to make this choice if necessary. I want my daughter and her daughters to have the freedom to choose to have this done in a clean safe environment. Abortion has been around for a long, long time and will be done whether or not it is legal. Just imagine how traumatic this will be on a woman if it ends up as an illegal choice, where she will have to go to an alley butcher (of yesteryear) and have a botched job done...she may never be able to have children, may get an infection and die. I want to choice to have this done in a medical center where I know it will be safe. If I have issues to deal with, I will deal with them...but please don't tell me I can't do this! Do you think being an unwanted child is less traumatic?? Look at the crime rates...how many of those people were unwanted children? Abortion is not a bad thing, it should not be used as a form of birth control but it should not be illegal!

Red Calypso 03-25-2008 05:09 PM

Oh, as for the "back alley abortion" myth. Even before abortions were legal over 90% of them were done on the sly by doctors. Moreover, it was not legality that led to less death by abortions, but better medical skills and antibiotics.

Princess of your Heart 03-25-2008 06:50 PM

Pro-Life

1. Since life begins at conception, abortion is akin to murder as it is the act of taking human life. Abortion is in direct defiance of the commonly accepted idea of the sanctity of human life
2.

No civilized society permits one human to intentionally harm or take the life of another human without punishment, and abortion is no different.
3.

Adoption is a viable alternative to abortion and accomplishes the same result. And with 1.5 million American families wanting to adopt a child, there is no such thing as an unwanted child.
4.

An abortion can result in medical complications later in life; the risk of ectopic pregnancies doubles, and the chance of a miscarriage and Pelvic Inflammatory Disease also increases.
5.

In the instance of rape and incest, proper medical care can ensure that a woman will not get pregnant.

white12lily 03-25-2008 07:24 PM

Honestly, in my opinion, ABORTION IS TOTALLY WRONG.

If I was to have a child in my young age (God forbid) I won't go through with an abortion. I would just keep the child.

slickie 03-25-2008 07:59 PM

abort if you want. I say there is nothing wrong with it. we need population control, anyway.
Honestly I really dont want abortion to be abolished. this will result in black market abortion, in other words a lot of young women will die from abortions because there wont be a professional doing the job.

Another thing: Abortionists will loose their jobs resulting in even more unemployment. Making america even worse. these people got an education, and if abortion is abolished, they will have done all that work for nothing.

and another thing: what if you were raped and you found out you were pregnant! would you want to keep the baby? I wouldnt! or what if you got pregnant at 15 years old and wouldnt have the money or resources to properly care for and nurture the child. would you really want to bring another human being into a world like that?

some say abortion is irresponsible. Sometimes it can be one of the most responsible things you can do. for the better of humanity.

Z3Ncat 03-26-2008 11:24 AM

Pro-choice and damn proud of it.

Nephrastar 03-30-2008 05:57 AM

I'm pretty much pro-choice.

I really wouldn't do an abortion on myself because of the possible mental trouble I may go through, but who am I to say other women can't? It's their body, not mine, and nothing should be able to stop her from aborting the child.

Arkeyla 03-30-2008 03:19 PM

Personally, I say leave it up to the individual concerned. Though I am a happy mother now, who got pregnant WHILE ON THE PILL - yes, it is scientifically possible, and the combination of small hole in condom and less than 100% effective pill got me 'knocked up' - in the past I have undergone two terminations for varying reasons, which I won't get into here. Sorry, but I just don't know any of you well enough to want to open up about my life that deeply! I chose to go ahead with it this time, mainly because at that age (almost 23) I felt ready for such a commitment, and thought that such a one-in-a-million chance pregnancy has happened for some odd cosmic reason, so I would do it. Then, when my daughter arrived, I was instantly smitten. She changed my life for the better.

But enough gushing. If a 'potential mother' (gee, that sounds so cold and clinical) wishes to terminate a pregnancy for whatever reason, she should be able to. After all, why bring a child into the world unless you are prepared to give it everything? A child is forever, and really does need a firm, ready commitment to give a new being the respect it deserves. I find adoption crueller than abortion, being adopted myself (I came to terms with it long ago though) - but that's a topic for another thread.

Kah Hilzin-Ec 03-31-2008 05:18 AM

After doing some research...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
Pro-Life

1. Since life begins at conception, abortion is akin to murder as it is the act of taking human life. Abortion is in direct defiance of the commonly accepted idea of the sanctity of human life

It could be murder after 6-8 weeks. Since that's when their heart starts pumping blood through major veins. Plus embryos aren't really foetus after 8 weeks. And by that I mean when they become foetus is when they have an human look.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
2.No civilized society permits one human to intentionally harm or take the life of another human without punishment, and abortion is no different.

That "human" doesn't show any signs of brain activity, until some moths later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
3. Adoption is a viable alternative to abortion and accomplishes the same result. And with 1.5 million American families wanting to adopt a child, there is no such thing as an unwanted child.

Would you like to adopt a black baby with the Down Syndrome? There are plenty in this little city.... and no, there are no blonde healthy babies here, why do you think their mothers wanted to abort them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
4. An abortion can result in medical complications later in life; the risk of ectopic pregnancies doubles, and the chance of a miscarriage and Pelvic Inflammatory Disease also increases.

Here's a reason why abortion should be legalized! Because then women would abort in clandestine places, and THAT's when there's a risk, since these places don't follow any control, and aren't higyenic at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
4. In the instance of rape and incest, proper medical care can ensure that a woman will not get pregnant.

...she's already pregnant dear. And most young girls who are raped, feel so ashamed they don't tell anyone. But when it becomes visible... do they have to deal with a baby, born from that awful moment? What if that girl was a 14 years old. I think aborting an embrio the size of a 50 cents coin is easier than having a baby that would bring her pain and could not go through her pelvis, endangering her life, her mental health, and her whole future, if any.

AAAANNNDD, what about those cases where the anticonceptives or the condom doesn't work and you get pregnant... but you don't want the child nor can afford one. Tha child, if it was born, would live with the negativity of her mother, and be unhappy for the rest of his childhood, or even worse, for the rest of his life.

Another example, what if this embryo has a malformation? If it lived, he/she would have to go through the suffering of being different, and the humilliation, since society would consider that person abnormal and good for nothing. That would be worse than death, and sincerely, I think never living would be the best.


PS: Still, I believe that PROPER SEXUAL EDUCATION, AGAIN, EDUCATION is better than any anticonceptive or methode, and abortion should be a last resort, not something casual.

Roah 03-31-2008 05:32 AM

In my scientific opinion, a fetus is not an indisputable life until it is capable of breathing, eating, and functioning on its own, ie at birth. Until birth, it is the right of the creator and carrier as to what becomes of it.

So yes, I support women who choose to get abortions, because up until a child is born, it is simply an organism leeching off another's body. The fact that it's a growing mass of genes belonging to the woman who's body is housing the fetus, should give her the right as to what becomes of it.

comfortably_dumb 04-06-2008 08:31 AM

I am 100% pro-choice. I feel that abortion should be legal no matter what circumstance got the woman pregnant. If a woman does not want to carry a child, she should not be forced to because it does not agree with someone else's morals or values. It is her body and hers alone. My mother has gotten an abortion, my aunt has gotten two. I do not see them as being any less responsible for getting an abortion because they "accidentally got pregnant," but in fact, I see them as being highly responsible. They realized that they were not at a right time in their lives and that it would be awful for them to bring in another life to this world when they were having difficulties with their own. A life in process, I feel, holds more merit to a life that has not yet begun. Sure, there are things such as adoption, but you are still forcing the mother to carry a child that she does not want. I'd much rather a woman have an abortion rather than to give her child up for adoption (since they are not the best agencies) or abandon her child. *shrugs*

Mattybee 04-06-2008 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
Since life begins at conception, abortion is akin to murder as it is the act of taking human life. Abortion is in direct defiance of the commonly accepted idea of the sanctity of human life.

No it doesn't. At conception the baby is just a mass of cells, just like a tumor. Give it time to develop - maybe the part where it has actual brain development, at the 12th week? Then it's a being. At conception, it's a mass of cells and nothing else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
No civilized society permits one human to intentionally harm or take the life of another human without punishment, and abortion is no different.

Already refuted in point one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
Adoption is a viable alternative to abortion and accomplishes the same result. And with 1.5 million American families wanting to adopt a child, there is no such thing as an unwanted child.

Ignorant statement. I grew up in a family that took in foster children, and trust me, there are nowhere near enough good homes for kids who need it. There are so many homes who take in kids who are ridiculously fucked up. I wouldn't trust my own kid in the adoption system. (I realize this is ancedotal evidence, but it's all I have right now.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
An abortion can result in medical complications later in life; the risk of ectopic pregnancies doubles, and the chance of a miscarriage and Pelvic Inflammatory Disease also increases.

Having a baby can KILL YOU. What's your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
In the instance of rape and incest, proper medical care can ensure that a woman will not get pregnant.

This doesn't even make sense. What if she comes after she's been raped/banged by her brother and is... I don't know, three weeks pregnant? I didn't know medical care included time machines.

Mimi Lara 04-06-2008 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white12lily
Honestly, in my opinion, ABORTION IS TOTALLY WRONG.

If I was to have a child in my young age (God forbid) I won't go through with an abortion. I would just keep the child.

You mean to say that even if a child of ten, or even 15, where to get pregnant, and possibly not even by her own choice, that she she risk her life because of that child? Isn't she just a child herself? Or what of the Rape victim, do you know what kind of Mental anguish it would put the mother in to think about it every day for nine months? These victims already gain a sence of helplessness....many even to the point where they want to die.

Roah 04-06-2008 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of your Heart
Pro-Life

1. Since life begins at conception, abortion is akin to murder as it is the act of taking human life. Abortion is in direct defiance of the commonly accepted idea of the sanctity of human life.

Actually, that is your personal opinion. There is no legal or scientific fact/proof that life begins at conception. Period.

FlyPanda 04-06-2008 09:26 PM

it's true abortion isn't much of an appreciated thing...like with people deeply involved in religion and stuff...but i agree that people raped and people who have a risk of losing their lives should get an abortion if they want it. Children don't want to come to this world as an unwanted child

Allura Minelle 04-07-2008 07:02 AM

I think it should be allowed.

Every human makes mistakes. Even stupid obvious mistakes, it just so happens that some girls make the mistake of getting pregnant.

Rape victims definitely should be given the choice. Uneducated 12 year olds who decide to experiment should be given the choice. To me, it is not their fault. Even though that young child was given the choice to do the activity, they do not get educated till highschool. (I feel that needs to be fixed but that's a different discussion)

What about the girls who do use protection? Birth control has a chance of failing. What if the girl did use a condom but it broke? Errors happen.

I think sex is highly overrated. Drugs are just as bad, but no one is saying that "Oh, they overdosed. They should just be left to die." No! We save them.

It is a mistake! Some pregnancies are mistakes.

We can fix these mistakes.

Some girls need these abortions. Their careers are riding on it, their acceptance at home, at school, in the world in general. Some parents kill their children for this. Abusive parents. Nobody should be beat for such a thing. The only reason pregnancy is looked down upon is because of our modern society, but if you look at science and history, our bodies were MEANT to reproduce at even the young age of 13.

I just think everyone has their own individual situations. Of course, there are some reckless women who shouldn't have the choice, but there are SO MANY MORE WOMEN who deserve and need the choice.

Plus, if you think of the child... Some mothers will not be able to provide. Some mothers will be ridiculed. Some mothers will be banished by their own family and left alone. These things will effect the child. it's better to bring a child into a positive self environment rather than a negative one. And positive environments only comes with readiness.

Pro-choice.

Arkeyla 04-08-2008 01:13 AM

I have noticed a few people putting forth adoption as an alternative to abortion. Please. Adoption has it's own set of heartaches, and I should know, being adopted myself.

Firstly, the adoptive parents will have to deal with knowing that one day their child will have to be told - it's the right thing to do, after all - and then will have to cope with their beautiful child, whom they have given everything to, wanting to go and find their birth parents. Or, and this is my situation, a little bit of clandestine snooping for something completely different (eg birthday presents when I was 7) can result in the discovery of a birth certificate that states the child has actually got different parents! I spent the next six years HATING my parents in between bouts of depression. Then when I turned 14, I went off the rails and became a nightmare, using 'you're not my real parents, you can't tell me what to do' as an excuse for my behaviour. This hurt my parents, and especially my gentle mother, deeply.

Which brings me to my second point. The child in question - suffering confusion, anger, depression, hatred and a whole slew of other negative emotions due to their whole world and what they thought they knew being turned completely upside down. Do you think this is fair? No.

And lastly but not least, the natural mother will then have to live knowing that she does have a child out there that she gave up, for whatever reason, and not knowing if they have a good family life, wondering if they should have tried themselves to look after their child.

I'm not saying adoption is bad. There are reasons for this to be a viable choice for a mother. Also, I won't reiterate my views on abortion. I have stated them clearly elsewhere in this thread, and have not changed my mind. All I wanted to point out is that before stating some thing like 'you can always adopt out', think a bit more carefully about the issue.

Allura Minelle 04-08-2008 02:51 AM

Arkeyla, I'm sorry to hear this, but yes, I did forget to mention the heartaches of adoption in my list of cons for keeping an unintended child.

Arkeyla 04-09-2008 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allura Minelle
Arkeyla, I'm sorry to hear this, but yes, I did forget to mention the heartaches of adoption in my list of cons for keeping an unintended child.

*glomptacklesmooches* Forgiven! Let's go have a cookie.

padfootsy 04-09-2008 09:07 PM

All right, here go my views on abortion...

If I got pregnant, hells yes I would get an abortion.

No woman should be forced (by law or otherwise) to give birth to a child she does not want to have for any reason.

I agree with others who have said that childbirth should not be used as a punishment for unsafe sex, however irresponsible.


When I was taking the pill, and I was 16 or 17, I would often times forget to take it for days, or weeks altogether. I'm still surprised I haven't gotten pregnant. I just figure that God knows I will abort the baby if I get pregnant, so he hasn't wasted his time or something. I dunno.

I am much more responsible now. I use birth control as directed, which makes it 99.??% effective. I keep up with taking my birth control on time, every time.

I know I am in no way shape or form ready to have a child. I don't want a kid for another 10+ years.

It is a woman's right to choose. Abortions are going to happen whether or not they are legal, so they might as well be legal and safe, rather than having teenagers sticking coat hangers into their vagina's trying to kill their unwanted babies.

cyanidecookie 04-11-2008 06:05 AM

I read this and thought it was horrible. I'm am personally against abortions, but i also think people have a right to choose. I belive the baby IS alive, and that abortions should only be done for health reasons. Maybe getting pregnant is a mistake, but thats what you get for having sex. People know the risks. Abortion should not be an easy way out for the people who can't take responsibility for their action.
Quote:

Quote:

"In September 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years of experience, was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice," she didn't think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong.


This is what Nurse Shafer saw:


"I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who was six months pregnant. The baby's heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen. The doctor delivered the baby's body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby's body was moving. His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and inserted them into the back of the baby's head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction, like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up. Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy. It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen.

But what about if the baby had been aborted at a younger age.. say 6 weeks? When the baby is this young, doctors use the Saline Method, where they inject a salty saline solution into the mother's womb. You would think it would just poison the baby, but it actually burns it to death. Even though the baby is so young, on ultrasounds of the abortion, the fetus is seen pulling away from the poison as it is injected.. obviously wanting to stay alive.(The baby is intelligent enough to move away from the pain..but the child can't escape it)
Think about that before you say that unborn children can't feel pain
Life is life, no matter how small.
A baby cries for it's first and last time when it's aborted
You can deny it, but its true.
A baby is a living thing."

Indy Lyon 04-11-2008 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spatterdash
Abortions are going to happen whether it's legal or not. If it's banned, the rich will travel to countries where it's legal, and the poor will go to backstreet operators, where there's a high risk that they could suffer horrible complications. Debate over foetusses aside, safe and legal abortion saves lives.

And anyway, I don't believe a foetus is a living being. It's kind of a grey area between about 20 and 24 weeks, and it's hard to know where to set the limit, but abortions that late are very rare, and usually only done because carrying on the pregnancy would seriously threaten the life of the woman.

So, yeah, keep it legal. It's for the best. And, gawd, if someone slips up and forgets contraceptives, they shouldn't be forced to become a parent - casual sex isn't something you should be 'punished' for.

"Children aren't a punishment"
I have met too many people who believe it (except when said children aren't being angels :wink: )
I am neither for or against Abortion but i think it all depends on the situation and i am in complete and utter agreement that Abortion should be a last result not a contraseptive.
It is the women's choice whether she regrets it later or not.
But I do think it is sad that somewhere abortion is banned because if a young girl is raped and gets pregnent, why keep the baby? My city has the highest abortion rates in my country, because of girls coming over from an abortion banned country to have abortions.
We put too much shame in abortion and that's sad.

Mitsumi Hitake 04-11-2008 08:50 AM

I am really against abortion, I believe that the only times that someone should be allowed to get one should be if you were raped or if you are a really young teenager (12/13 years old kind of thing) the rest of the time it would be fairer to give birth to the baby then put it up for adoption if you dont want it. I know sometimes it isnt planned and everything but I believe that once an egg is fertilised then it is alive and abortion is murder to me. But I can understand that other people would have a different opinion.

Elfiria 04-11-2008 01:13 PM

To understand the issue of abortion we really have to ask "what is wrong with murder?" in the first place. Of course we all know murder is wrong, but understanding why will help inform us in other moral and ethical decisions.

What is so valueable about human life? To me it seems that humans are special. We are sentient beings unlike the animals.

Is a sperm a sentient being? No. Is an egg a sentient being? No. Is an embryo a sentient being? No.

Is a baby sentient? No. But it's still murder to kill one. Why? I think it's because even though it might not be sentient the thoughts that it has can potentially lead to sentient thought later in life. The same could be said of any thoughts a fetus has in the womb, but to have thoughts the fetus must first have a brain.

The fetus' brain stem is done growing around 7 weeks, and then parts of the brain begin growing. To be safe we should assume the fetus is a person at 7 weeks of pregnancy.

But that's not the only issue. If you have a roommate you have the right to evict him/her from your house. If they get violent lethal force sometimes becomes acceptable from either you or the police depending on the circumstances. To say that a woman doesn't have the same right to evict her fetus is to say she has less rights over her body than a piece of real estate. That makes absolutely no sense.

Still if it's possible the fetus should always be removed alive. If the fetus is viable induce a delivery or give her a C-Section and try to save the baby. Ectogenesis, artificial womb technology is coming close and that would push viability back to conception. Before 7 weeks if you don't have a brain you can't really say you're a person, and then all the fertilized eggs in artificial insemination clinics would have to be kept alive and brought to term, so I think then abortion should still be legal before 7 weeks, just not after.

Arilu 04-12-2008 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyanidecookie
I read this and thought it was horrible. I'm am personally against abortions, but i also think people have a right to choose. I belive the baby IS alive, and that abortions should only be done for health reasons. Maybe getting pregnant is a mistake, but thats what you get for having sex. People know the risks. Abortion should not be an easy way out for the people who can't take responsibility for their action.

It's been said a thousand times and I'll repeat it again: pregnancy is not punishment for sex. It's like saying a car accident is punishment for driving; you know the risks of that, too, when you step foot in your car.

Now someone will come along and go 'But what if you were driving while on a cell phone, THEN you'll deserve to get into an accident, because you should no better.' And to that I say: Are we such a cruel society that we have to inflict punishment on others? Why are we justifying cruel thoughts by saying 'they should have taken responsibility'?

I am sorry, but getting an abortion is taking responsibility for your actions. I'm not even going to taint that by saying any 'What ifs' because they don't matter. If a person comes to the conclusion that they cannot emotionally or financially care for a child, then getting an abortion may be the right option for them.

At this time I do not support adoption as a viable option, not after watching a very close friend of mine go through terrible pains trying to put her non-white baby up for adoption. By the time she actually found a family willing to take it, she'd accrued an enormous amount of debt, had spent seven months in terrible emotional distress. And in the end the adoption wasn't finalized because she gave birth three weeks early to a very underweight baby who needed additional medical attention. My friend instead signed the baby over to the state, with no guarantee for placement. Some people may ask why she didn't just keep the baby herself... she couldn't! In that time she lost her apartment, her car. Her family wouldn't support her and me and other friends helped her out as much as we could. Now she is severely depressed, has been hospitalized a couple times for Post-Partum Depression with psychotic features (she locked herself in the bathroom at the place she's staying with a knife because she thought 'someone' was trying to break into the apartment).

Yeah. I really wish that on other people.

Cyanidecookie,you posted a quote I took out (because of the length). This quote is wrong for many reasons.
Late-term abortions are rare and account for 1.4% of all abortions. Intact Dilation and Extraction--what people refer to as 'partial birth'--abortions make up .17% of all abortions. Saline abortions are NOT done at 6 weeks.
36 states currently have a ban on late term abortions, depending on the state is 18-24 weeks.
That quote is meant to startle and alarm people by citing the absolute worst case scenario. I seriously doubt it's even a true story, as most of those are either fabricated or greatly exaggerated. Done by 'pro-life' organizations to further villainize abortion in people's minds.

Be against abortion all you want, just don't reduce yourself to using those petty actions because the actual facts don't cut it. It's scare tactics and underhanded propaganda, a gross misrepresentation of the facts and subjective data misrepresented as fact.


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