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It lacks all the basic characteristics of a human. How can it be a person if it lacks the traits of one? There's a debate, sure, but until I am absolutely proven wrong I will continue to do what I think is right, and that is not bringing into the world hundreds of unsupported persons.
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Main Entry: me·tab·o·lism
Pronunciation: \mə-ˈta-bə-ˌli-zəm\ Function: noun Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary, from Greek metabolē change, from metaballein to change, from meta- + ballein to throw — more at devil Date: 1878 1 a: the sum of the processes in the buildup and destruction of protoplasm; specifically : the chemical changes in living cells by which energy is provided for vital processes and activities and new material is assimilated b: the sum of the processes by which a particular substance is handled in the living body c: the sum of the metabolic activities taking place in a particular environment <the metabolism of a lake> 2: metamorphosis 2 —usually used in combination <holometabolism> Going by this definition, can you deny that an unborn has a metabolism? Does it take in nutrients and dispose of waste? Does it grow? Does it maintain a steady body temperature? Adapt? Define what you mean by adapt in this case. The unborn has a very limited environment obviously, but it does explore what it can. This includes feeling its face, sucking its thumb, even playing with the umbilical cord. Main Entry: res·pi·ra·tion Pronunciation: \ˌres-pə-ˈrā-shən\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English respiracioun, from Latin respiration-, respiratio, from respirare Date: 15th century 1 a: the placing of air or dissolved gases in intimate contact with the circulating medium of a multicellular organism (as by breathing) b: a single complete act of breathing 2: the physical and chemical processes by which an organism supplies its cells and tissues with the oxygen needed for metabolism and relieves them of the carbon dioxide formed in energy-producing reactions 3: any of various energy-yielding oxidative reactions in living matter — re·spi·ra·to·ry \ˈres-p(ə-)rə-ˌtȯr-ē, ri-ˈspī-rə-\ adjective The unborn does not breath with its lungs yet obviously, but it DOES take in oxygen and dispose of carbon dioxide. Respond to stimulus. Yep, an unborn does that too. At just six weeks, an unborn will respond to its cheek being stroked, and by nine, it responds to loud noises. And they can recognise their mother's voice, too- studies suggest that their heart rate slows down when the mother is speaking, which suggests that this calms them. At around 17 weeks, unborn babies can feel and respond to temperature changes, pain, and pressure. If they are pricked with a needle, they will draw back, just as you or I would, and their heart rates increase. Reproduce? Obviously an unborn is not physically mature enough for that, but neither is a toddler, or a 5 year old, etc. And how about people who are sterile? They miss out on that criteria. Are all of those examples also not alive? |
Would it be able to do ANY of those things if not specifically in the uterus?
Also: An unborn has a cheek at 6 weeks, let alone someone to stroke it? edit: Also, in response to the Quote:
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Kinmotsu, yes, a six week old definitely has a cheek, though for the moment I am going to have to cede the stroking bit since I can't find a reliable link to that study.
Your second quote seems to be incomplete, but I think the gist of what you're saying is there is a cutoff point for abortion. For me it's from conception, what is your particular cutoff point? I will grant that exploration is not adaption, but there are two very important points to consider here. 1. The womb is a very stable environment. There are no extremes of temperature, food is constantly provided, etc. There is precious little for an unborn to adapt to! 2. A newborn doesn't adapt to its environment either. If you place a newborn in a snowdrift, is it going to get up and build a fire? Go looking for shelter? Find something warm to wrap itself in? Nope. It's going to just lay there and freeze to death. Does this helplessness mean that it is not alive either? Let's face it, two of those criteria (reproduction and adaption) require a certain level of maturity. If you're going to apply them to each individual member of a species, instead of the species as a whole, a hell of a lot of people aren't going to qualify as being alive. |
Newborns have survival instincts like everything else. We're programmed to do it. But they probably won't have the physical development to be able to save themselves, which is why they'd freeze to death. If it can get out, it will.
I agree with you about reproduction, though. And it's quite debatable when it becomes a real baby. Personally, I think it's person-like enough so it should not be aborted after about 26 weeks, but really... it only becomes a person after birth. It's a very nice, clean line. |
Until it can survive outside of the womb without the use of another human's body, is it living. Until ten, it's a potiental life who does not supersede the living life.
So until then, it is a women option to chooce to carry a pregnancy to full term or not. |
Personally, I have never undergone an abortion but I am pro choice. I think that women should have the choice to have abortion or not, I mean if they were pregnant because of rape, underage, financial situations changing or even their partner leaving. They are all situations that could change whether you would feel responsible bringing a child in the world if you couldn't give them the best environment possible. If you were raped you may find it hard to love a product from that day, it would be a constant reminder and could lead to resentment. If you were underage you could regret not going to university and blame it on the poor child, or finances- would you want to bring a child into the world knowing you can't provide for that human life? Or what if the baby would be seriously ill- would you feel right about letting somebody live in constant suffering with a bad quality of life? I couldn't do it. I'd have to have an abortion but I can understand why some people wouldn't want to. Although, I'd only about within 19 weeks because babies may be able to feel pain after then.
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I think abortion should be allowed in the first few months - that should be enough time to decide whether or not you want to have the child. Are babies actually conscious inside the womb?
IMO, everyone should get the chance to abort their baby if they know they'll have trouble. If the child is severely handicapped and it is certain that the baby will die in pain before its fifth birthday, if the child is the product of rape, if it's certain that the mother will not survive giving birth... Teenagers should get the chance too (however, I don't have much respect for people who are fifteen, go to a party, get drunk and end up being pregnant). They could always give birth to the child and put it up for adoption, but if they don't want to give the baby away, they shouldn't be forced to carry its burden alone, go to work immediately after high school because they have to spend all their money on the child etc. Abortion should be enough of a punishment for such a teenager to never ever be that irresponsible again. |
I'm pro choice. Frankly it is none of my business what other people decide to do with their bodies. I can't tell anyone to get a tattoo, to remove piercings, to cut their hair, or get new clothes (well, I can, but I shouldn't expect to be obeyed). Other people's sex lives, and the "consequences" of those sex lives, are not my concern.
Personally, I'm not sure I could ever go through with an abortion myself. I'm well aware that it's not a conscious being able to survive outside the womb until months into development, but I still don't think I could abort a child of mine. I also hope I never have to go through that kind of decision for any reason. |
Although, abortion should not be used as a form of birth control.
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I agree completely with Volucria.
And no, a fetus is not actually conscious. I don't really have a lot of respect for stupid girls like that either, but... well, some are more idiotic than others. It's not always completely their fault. But they certainly shouldn't be punished with a CHILD. edit @lilmissshortiee- Abortion shouldn't be used as birth control, but you have to remember that it's VERY few women that do. Abortion isn't exactly a pleasant (or cheap) experience. |
If a person is going to be that irresponsible with sex, why let the have a child if they have already shown very little responsiblity and respect?
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That's what I've always thought.
Can't remember a condom, you can't remember to pick your kid up either. |
I totally do not get why people who think someone who is already proven themselves to be irresponsible to be forced to have a kid. yeah, like I need more of those people raising children.
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Ah, yes, let's wrap everything up in a nice neat package. Unfortunately, life is not that simple. That newborn person that you keep mentioning is not going to just magically appear without being an UNBORN first! And if you kill the unborn, voila! No more chance of a new person! (Note: I firmly believe that an unborn is a person from the very minute of conception, NOT just after birth.) Quote:
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Even if the unborn cannot adapt, they are still not people. There is a difference between simply being alive and being a person with the right to life. Plants are life, too. I don't see you fighting for their rights.
An unborn and a newborn are not the same thing. End of story. An unborn does not deserve the same rights as a newborn, either. I'm sure I've said this before, but being a potential life still will not make you a life. |
Well I personally believe in abortion. You should not force a person to have a child they do not want. Women have rights and look out how far we have come since the pill. Getting rid of abortion is a step backwards. Also, no child should be brought up in a situation where the parents are not able,ready or wanting to care for them. That child will likely not have a very nice life, I should know, my mother didn't want me and tried to get ride of me and trust me that's not a nice feeling. An unborn child will not feel pain when terminated just as a tree will not when it is cut down. If your going to throw in the life card, stop eating meat and veges, plants etc.
That's just my opinion.... =] Don't mean to offend anyone |
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So, when did having an abortion not become taking a response acton for a mistake, when said person is not being responsible? Forcing a life on someone will not make them responsible or grow-up. Why force someone who clearly can not take care of themselves to have another life who is dependant on them? I'm glad you dislike children that much to force them onto somone who does not care about personal responsibility because obiviously they are prepared for it. And nor is an abortion a happy fun procedure that is filled with sparkles and rainbows. It's an invasive and not fun one. The women who I know who had one one realized that all aroundit was the best option. They were neither in a place to take care of their bodies or raise a child. But clearly you don't care, because you want to force something you call responsibility even though it's not. An abortion is taking a responsible choice and one that requires much thinking. |
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Simple fact of life: Some people just never grow up. Do you really think you're being helpful by just giving them another thing to neglect? |
I still can't believe how some people can think that way... being in the 21st century x_x
You say that we should make those people get a responsability to make them responsible and never fail again. ERROR. Here in my school are boys and girls that talk a lot. Teachers have made them have bad grades in Discipline, thrown them out of their classes, thrown them out of their classes until their parents go and talk to them... BUT THEY STILL DO IT. And we're talking about 16-year-old girls and boys. If they DON'T WANT to keep their MOUTHS shut [something as simple as that], what makes you THINK they will WANT to take care of a BABY? Oh pleassseee! Let me tell you something. Here in my country, the low-economic-class is the 70-75% of the population. 25-30% are homeless. But these classes, when they reach the age of 14-16, they tend to get a husband and have 5-6-7-11 CHILDREN even though THEY CAN'T EVEN FEED THEMSELVES! Children having children?! Why do they do that?!? Oh yeah: "We are having as many children as God makes us have" ... no offence towards christianity, but this shows clearly the IGNORANCE of those people. They can't wash properly a shirt, or even wash the fruits before eating them [wait, they prefer fried fries..], and you want those ignorant people to have more ignorant children? Excuse my words, but that's "going back to the 14th century", if not earlier. This doesn't mean I aprove it as any kind of child-birth control. I mean abortion should be legalized if you don't want 14-17 years old girls going to dangerous places, running the risk of dying in there just to try to find a solution to the emotional problem they have while also trying to prevent more emotional pain before everyone else knows and discriminate her. Apart from other reasons mentioned by other pro-choice. Personally, I think the real solution [or prevention] is EDUCATION. But when so many years of teaching of morals fail, the last option would be [oh yeah] the abortion. It doesn't mean having no responsability. It's a hard desition. But in the end, aborting a baby is having more mercy than bringing it to a bad environment, and raise the resentful man/woman of tomorrow. PS: Red Calypso just broke my heart by not being as emphatic as I would like humanity to be ;( |
Some times you gotta do what you gotta do:(
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Well.. I think you're right.
People that don't have a good reason and is too lazy to.. yeah .. should take responsibility and take care of their baby. |
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People who have already proven to be irresponsible and lazy tend to not make good parents or take care of themselves through pregnancy. |
I'm sorry I'm almost totally one sided on this... :S
I do not believe in abortion in most forms... It also irks me when people say a fetus is not a living thing... Though I will not argue beyond this post about it because of others personal opinion about it. (Mind you that this is my personal opinion and if others feel threatened by it I do not mean this as an attack but only by personal opinion and from what I know.) I can not figure how people do not consider it a living organism since by science's definition it IS. (At least from what I learned... being top student in biology. :S ) Its just like saying bacteria (though being a really bad example in this case X_X but bare with me) are not a living organism as well. This being the main reason I do not believe in aborting. However in certain circumstances I am ok with aborting if the baby inside the mother will kill the her among other obscure problems. |
@Lum Lotus-- I have yet to find someone who will deny a fetus as a living being.
It's just not a person. End of story. Being living =/= being a person. @Yummeh-- Who are you to say they don't have a reason? |
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