|
Quote:
Also, if food is an issue, WIC gives food to pregnant women. And prenatal care? There are clinics all over the U.S. that give limited care and education. |
Quote:
What you're doing is blanketing. You're asuming that all homeless people are exactly the same and have the same education and none of them drink or do drugs and none of them have been turned down for anything because of mental or health issues and that everything happens right away and their are no waiting lists.. This is the real world. There are no rainbows and butterflies. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
You are making assumptions about my attitude because you're upset. Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Here's your goverment money. If you have an apartment, trailer or home, the government will pay a % of your rent and utilities based on your income and the number of childen you have. This depends on the state, the area you live in, the programs AVAILABLE because there are cut off dates, deadlines and only so many people are allowed to have the services at a time, meaning there are waiting lists. If you do NOT have a home for the government to aid you with, then you are put on a waiting list for free housing. The projects. It varies from state to state, but you have to meet requirements for this housing. If you meet them.. you are put on a waiting list based on availability and need. If you have no home and no income, the MOST you will get is food stamps and possibly goverment cash. With 2 children, you'll get around 150-200 foods stamps and maybe 150 cash each month. I'm not sure what kind of budget you live on, but that's not nearly as much as it looks like. The system expects you to stay in a homeless shelter, which is free, and eat food from food banks and soup kitchens. Oh, did I mention that space in shelters is limited, and in the middle of winter everyone wants a spot. Why do you think people sleep in cars? As is food in soup kitchens. People get turned away after a point because they just can't FEED everyone. Same with food banks. In a perfect world, the system would work for everyone, but the fact is, there ARE limitations. Not only does a person have to meet the government requirements for aid, the government has to have aid to give, and that doesn't always happen, with budgets and waiting lists, it could take years for anything to get done. By that point, you've spent 3 years of your life trying to keep yourself and your kids afloat, been bending over backwards to meet government requirements, and been told over and over again "Sorry, not this time". It's no wonder people give up on the system and just take whatever they can get. |
On this whole issue, it was stated earlier that a person should be able to do what they want with their own body, I agree. I would never personally get an abortion but I can understand reasons why someone might.
In regards to The_Good_Kid_13 I wonder at how much you actually know about the government systems such as WIC and other support systems in place for pregnant women, or homeless individuals. Government funds are always strapped and there are long waiting lists for programs that can help pregnant woman out. Homeless pregnant women don't have any more options than the homeless man who lost his job most times. Most times even the things you "qualify" for take months for you to recieve any benefits from the program. These systems are also always being underminded by people who "qualify" who don't actually need the program, causing those that do desperately need to go without that much longer. MollyJean and Keyori- I believe that you have the right of it. It is unfortunate but the care that is supplied is never enough and it isn't anywhere near what it should ideally be. |
Quote:
The ultrasounds can detect major defects, but nothing severe. That's why the government offers insurance for pregnant women. Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
By the way, I looked up the living wage in the town I live in (which is rural). If you are a single parent with a child, the living wage is $27,882 a year. Which is "too much" to qualify for aid. The government does nothing to help bridge that $7800 gap (and believe me, the cost of pregnancy is far above $7800, especially if you're uninsured). And this is in a rural area! It only goes up from there. So no, women who are under the living wage and need just as much help paying for pregnancy do not necessarily qualify. P.S. My mother made less than $45,000 a year (even AFTER child support), had two kids (my brother and myself), and we starved some weeks because she blew her money to fuel her boyfriend's alcoholism. We went weeks without her providing us any food. I was lucky enough to have friends that cared about me and let me have bits of their lunches at school sometimes, and I got food from the neighbors to help my younger brother out, but not everyone is as lucky as me. P.P.S. My father has been unemployed for two years and is still looking for a job. He makes no money, and he is "ineligible" for any government aid because he owns a home. He's lucky he has a registered domestic partner who covers my family's health insurance and pays his bills for him, bless her soul. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
And Keyori has a point. The government has no say on what the money is spent on. I remember when food stamps where made of paper, my mother would trade them for pot. And I want to know what magical state you live in that gives homeless people houses. Sure, there are some who get it, Habitat for Humanity gives them out.. I haven't seen a Hab Home in my lifetime, and doubt I ever will. They are not a government organization, they are a charity, and don't have to do a damned thing if they don't want too. I said already. The government will offer a little help, the MOST you're going to get in regards to a home is a place in the projects. Free housing with a 3 year waiting list. You can't seriously expect a person to "make do" with 400 a month while they're pregnant and living in a homeless shelter? You're right, homeless shelter, food stamps and WIC isn't the worst a woman can do for herself. But it is FAR from the best. And when you actually LIVE in those situations, which I'm starting to believe you never have, you make rash choices to survive, including abortion. |
Quote:
And as for your hunger, that was your mother's fault. She could have supported her family and chose not to. And your father's situation seems like a unique one. Quote:
|
I guess I forgot to mention that my mother didn't receive any aid, despite the fact that she made less than $45,000. That was more my point than the fact that she squabbled her money away.
The worst point of living with her was when she totaled her car. She had medical bills to pay, and she was trying to buy a new car, so she spent even less on my brother and me. And she still didn't qualify for government aid. But I guess you're still going to wish to condemn children to a life of starvation and abuse than to let the mother have an option to abort (and my mother WANTED us! and we still starved!). You're only making the lives of people who are already struggling harder by suggesting that we should feed more people into the system. You are an enemy to all of those people. |
Before I get too off topic. My opinion on abortion is that it's not your body, it's not your business. What she does with the extra cells occupying that portion of her anatomy is her business. Not yours.
Remember kids, a few cells does not a person make. ---- Actually, people still use foodstamps for things other than food. Including drugs. You don't have to actually give the person the food stamps, just tell them, "I'll go buy you what you want, if you'll give me what I want." This is where a majority of my stepbrother's food stamps went last I heard. And in return for buying what the other person needed, he got his drug fix or even alcohol at some times. On WIC. I agree that it's a great thing and can be a huge help to a family. Especially since it's got more variety in what you can buy. But just know that you are limited to the sizes/weights that the WIC indicates. If you get anything other than those sizes and whatnot, you're out of luck. Which happens very often. Lots of WIC users and not enough of the sizes that WIC supports. So those who do need them often come too late and it's no longer in stock and they can't get what they want. They also claim there's a balance in the foods available on WIC, I think they cut it to include less sugar is one of the main reasons they changed it. However, you're also limited to certain types of certain brands. I think with baby food it's you can only get single meat or single vegetables. So it's a real pain. A "convenience", but a pain. --- On another note, keep in mind that the government will use any trick or excuse to not help you. So they'll take as long as possible to file the paperwork, set up an appointment, and answer the phone. I've known girls who've gone through their whole pregnancy trying to get these "aids" promised to pregnant women. |
Flink, unfortunately, that last part does not surprise me at all :no:
|
I remember the WIC vouchers when I was little. I'm not sure about what they put on them today, but milk and cheese don't last very long if you don't have a fridge.
|
Unless the milk is powdered and the cheese is from a can >_>
Though I doubt that's what it actually covers xD |
Milk, cheese, bread (wheat types only, one of the limited to certain sizes), vegetables (canned, fresh, frozen, small limit on how much you can get. Most I've seen has been $6), babyfoods (single vegetable or fruit only, certain sizes only), juice (brand, size, and flavor are limited. Very confusing, really), and cereals (NOTHING sugary. Only grain cereals, think Cheerios.)
The milk has changed. You can get gallons of milk, I've even seen some people able to get whole 2% milk. Some are limited to low fat, etc. But it's always the least expensive brand. The bread was a real pain at first. Because the sizes WIC supported were not sizes that most stores carried. The place I work had to change what it covered when they got the notice about WIC offering those things. |
I have always seen long, drawn out, time consuming debates over this topic. The comments and views are always the same, no matter where you are having this debate. It's pretty half and half over the views, who sees what, and what people think should be okay, and not okay. My own views on this, are in the middle. I think that abortion should be legal, but only to those woman that really need it. I think that a lot of girls, and woman tend to go to get an abortion for the wrong reasons some of the time. Now, I am not saying that I am pro-choice. Because I half am, but I am half not. I am just merely saying that there are some situations that give the woman the "okay" to get an abortion. Some of the situations, in my personal view, that are okay to get an abortion have to do with what happened to the woman that got pregnant. 1.) If the woman was raped, and got pregnant, then I think that it is perfectly acceptable to get an abortion. 2.) If the woman was pregnant with the child of an abusive boyfriend, fiance, or husband and she left him. I think that this is a good reason, because if he forced her to have sex with him, then it is non-consensual. This also leads back to rape. 3.) If the pregnant girl is young, say... maybe thirteen of fourteen or fifteen. This I am okay with because I think that if the girl does not have the right environment for a child, she should not be having a child herself because at that age, no one can support themselves. I also disagree with a young girl having a child because I think that it is wrong to pass off one's child, which is supposed to be one's heart and soul, to their parents. I think this way, because your parents already spent the time to raise you, I think that it is wrong to make them raise a child that is not even theirs, even if it is their grandchild. But as I have reasons for Pro-abortion, I also have reasons for pro-choice as well. Because I think that there are always more than one side to everything. Just like how Light cannot exist without Dark, or Good without Evil. 1.) The woman decides that she does not want a child. I disagree with getting an abortion here because I think that instead of not wanting a child, the woman should just get into an adoption program, so that the child has a chance at a life that the mother either does not want to give them, or cannot give them. 2.) That leads to this point. I think that it is wrong to get an abortion because the mother-to-be cannot support a child. It is my personal views that the mother should give the child for adoption instead. 3.) The woman wants an abortion because she is pregnant with an ex's child. This, to me, is very very wrong and selfish. I think that this is unfair to the child in growth. Just because you broke up with them, or they broke up with you, does not give you a solid reason for getting an abortion. A lot of my pro-choice, anti- abortion reasons rest on Adoption. Yes, I know that it seems strange, or maybe a little harsh for the child. But I think that in those situations, it may be better if the woman that is pregnant with said child picked out a good couple for adopting her child to give him or her a better chance at something that "Mom" might not be able to give. I think that some of the reasons that girls get abortions may be slightly irrational, and unthought. But as well as there are reasons that I found for pro-life, I find other reasons that are just as legit to me for getting an abortion. I am very against the whole rape aspect. This is because I have seen what it does to girls and women, and I think that an abortion would possibly be a good choice for them if they got pregnant from the rape incident. I also think that it is irresponsible to the young girl that gets pregnant, because if she is having sex, she should know the consequences of that act and should be taking all the proper precautions while they are having intercourse, only to hand the child off to their parents because they have neither the funds, or the time to take care of that child. Some of these reasons may seem silly or even dumb to some of you. But to me, they seem perfectly legit. A lot of this is merely my opinion, and I apologize if I offend anyone at all. |
Quote:
I'm sorry; so many people have this view and no one seems to understand this point. If have a woman who needs an abortion because she will be homeless if forced to pay for that pregnancy, then you look at her and turn your nose up, telling her "Just give it up for adoption!" you have done nothing but been a horrible, inhumane person to that woman. Why does your entire view focus on punishing women for having sex? Since when is sex something to be punished for? |
I would like to point out, that there are ways that someone that would be homeless, can get health insurance. I have seen it a lot seeing as I work in a hospital. Insurance, if you have found the right one, can and will pay for EVERYTHING. So, I still say, that adoption would be a good choice. And I am sorry, but if it is an unwanted pregnancy, the woman should not have been having sex without taking the right precautions in the first place, and it is still considered punishing the child for some unintelligent decisions that its mother made. You do not know me at all. How do you know that I would just "Turn up my nose, and tell her "Just give it up for adoption?" I happen to like helping people. If it was in my power, I would help said woman as much as I could to help her get what she needed, and to make sure she was taken care of. There would be no way that I would just turn my nose up, and walk away. Because that, to me, is wrong and it makes me no better than those people that say that the woman should have an abortion because she was stupid, and got pregnant. Now, I am slightly offended that you went and put words in my mouth by saying that. I am far from being "A horrible, inhumane person" as you put it. So next time you would like to say something about me doing such a thing, which, I did not say anything of that sort in my last post, please think before speaking. |
If a married couple does not want to have children, should they not have sex to appease you?
If a woman who has had all the children she wants does not want another child, should she give up sex to appease you? How is it unintelligent to have sex? Dear pot, please meet kettle. You are calling women who have had unwanted pregnancies "unintelligent". Further than that, you are also asking them to give up their rights and radically change their lives to appease you. You want to punish women for having sex! Since when is that something to be punished for? |
Quote:
DO NOT ASSUME THAT WOMEN WHO GET PREGNANT DID NOT TAKE PRECAUTIONS. Because that would be unintelligent. |
If a woman has all the children she wants, there is this thing called getting her tubes tied. If the married couple is ready for children, then it is not unwanted. Until then, it is called birth control. And I am aware of the possibilities of birth control. I said, that women who DID NOT take the right precautions in the first place, are unintelligent. |
Quote:
Also, tubal ligation also has a chance of failure--it's only 0.1%, but that does mean that 1 in 1000 women will get pregnant after having a tubal ligation. Will you deny her an abortion too? |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 12:38 PM. |