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-   -   Menewsha's Androgynes [And Everyone Who Wants to Throw a Wrench at Gender Stereotypes] (https://www.menewsha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154177)

PapillonCameo 01-14-2012 04:53 AM

Well that's a plus.
I should be working on something, but I'm not... My continual problem.

greendragon06 01-30-2012 07:08 AM

Hello everyone, I read through some of the posts here and decided that this is a type of place for me. I am definitely outside the gender binary as a transgender person. I identify also as queer and while I like male pronouns 100% of the time, I have no issues with the feminine qualities about me, every person has male and female qualities, it is just up to the person to decide if the sex that they are born into is the one that they want to stay in and express 100% of the time or if they want to gender bend, gender blend or challenge gender stereotypes.

Glass 01-30-2012 07:32 AM

Nice to meet you. :)

greendragon06 01-30-2012 07:35 AM

Hello Glass! Your outfit on here right now is really gorgeous. I plan to make more elaborate costumes as soon as I make some more money on here, I squandered my gold away the last few times I was on here and now I have to save up again.

`Kitami 01-30-2012 09:12 AM

Glass:: Your outfit is rather gorgeous, babe. :heart: I have to say I am a little ticked that you got the pretty swords before me though. -bad Kita-

Dragon:: Glad you're going to chat in here with us. ^^
I like how you put things in your post. :yes: If I still lived at home, I'd be showing this thread to my mom, along with some of the things people have said in it. My mom told me herself several different times that she feels like a boy a lot and that she would have been better off if she had been born a boy, so I think she'd find this thread pretty interesting. :O

hummy 01-30-2012 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greendragon06 (Post 1770424177)
Hello everyone, I read through some of the posts here and decided that this is a type of place for me. I am definitely outside the gender binary as a transgender person. I identify also as queer and while I like male pronouns 100% of the time, I have no issues with the feminine qualities about me, every person has male and female qualities, it is just up to the person to decide if the sex that they are born into is the one that they want to stay in and express 100% of the time or if they want to gender bend, gender blend or challenge gender stereotypes.


that was very nicely put, greendragon06.

ljosberinn 01-30-2012 06:41 PM



But surely the masculine and feminine "qualities" are social constructions and therefore it is not a question of "staying in the sex you are born in" (which is problematic in its own right) but rather a question of whether you want to adhere to society's strict gender rules or break free of them?



greendragon06 01-30-2012 11:46 PM

While I understand where you are coming from ljos, are all qualities male or female by society's standards alone? Can we say with 100% certainty that there are not some things that are innately male and innately female? I'm very hesitant to put things in black and white because I think that there are grays in nearly everything.
Even the idea of their only being two sexes is an idea created by society as there is more than two sexes although I would have to pull the research to tell you how many there actually are, but xx and xy are not the only genetic sexes there is also xxy and xo at least and probably other combinations as well.

The_Crow 01-31-2012 04:16 AM

greendragon06: First of all, welcome. Secondly, I have heard of those with XXY chromasomes, but you are the first person to bring to my attention in my 27 years of life someone with "XO" sex chromasomes. Can you elaborate on this, please?

I am very pleased to have you here, and I hope you feel welcome. Nobody here agrees with each other 100% of the time but overall we do find support, and we also learn from each other. Since I have started the thread, I've probably been among one of the ones to learn the most, and it has been my honour each step of the way.

PapillonCameo 01-31-2012 04:28 AM

Hi everyone, sorry for disappearing all the time ... So how are you all?

greendragon06 01-31-2012 04:34 AM

Thank you for the welcome Crow, I enjoy a healthy debate every once and a while and do not take it personally unless someone is specifically criticizing me. As for the XO chromosomes, it is a disorder called Turner's syndrome and it is actually when a human is missing a chromosome.

Hi Papillon! I've seen you around the site before :) Hope you are having a good night.

PapillonCameo 01-31-2012 04:35 AM

Oh, I remember you Green! It's been a while.
I'm having a wonderful night, watching bad handypeople on tv and rediscovering threads. How are you?

greendragon06 01-31-2012 04:37 AM

Yea, it has been a while, I got really busy and while I sometimes checked up on what's going on on mene, I wasn't really posting again until yesterday haha. What's on the television right now? We lost the cable to hook the tv up to cable, so I don't have any tv right now. I SHOULD be doing homework right now, but I think I can spend twenty minutes on mene first. I just have too much stress to relieve before deciphering poetry.

PapillonCameo 01-31-2012 04:39 AM

Well it's more like watching it on the channel's website. So .. completely legal and I get to choose what I want to watch. XD
lol Oh gosh, I did that all last semester, procrastinating to go on Mene. I just don't have anything to do right now, but tomorrow's gonna be a busy day!

greendragon06 01-31-2012 04:42 AM

Ohhhh okay, that's good, I know of a few websites of tv channels that from time to time post movies, I like them because I get bored of my collection of movies and tend not to bring them with me to school. I have a busier day tomorrow than today, but its really not all that busy because I have a break between my first and second class to have lunch.

PapillonCameo 01-31-2012 05:07 AM

I have no classes tomorrow, but I have a lot of work to do .

greendragon06 01-31-2012 05:17 AM

I should be doing more work before my Monday and Wednesday class because it is at night, but I always seem to be catching up on sleep and doing errands before I go to class and realizing an hour before class that I forgot to do this or that portion of the homework and scrambling to finish it.

PapillonCameo 01-31-2012 05:34 AM

That always happens to me too!!! haha I know the feeling all too well.

greendragon06 01-31-2012 05:36 AM

I'm trying to do my poetry homework but I have this huge brain freeze. I don't know how to say anything about the meaning of the poem that I am analyzing. I wish it were simpler. I am going to take a break from it I think and get some coffee, I have a long night ahead of me.

PapillonCameo 01-31-2012 05:41 AM

Ooo I just eat lots and lots of sugar, or have chips and paint and listen to music. Cause my long nights are usually for painting class.

greendragon06 01-31-2012 05:48 AM

I just have to make the decision of either blueberry coffee or chocolate cappuccino coffee. I don't have very many sugary things and I am not about to drive 20 minutes to the closest open grocery store for the type of things that I am craving.
I can probably get my homework done soon if I really put my mind to it, but then I won't be able to sleep so I will want to get something productive done, so I will probably end up reading a book or trying to write some of my own book and then I will lose track of time like I always do.

PapillonCameo 01-31-2012 06:10 AM

Losing track of time can be such a bother when you want to sleep .. And I would go for the chocolate.

ljosberinn 02-02-2012 01:18 AM



Let me first say I'm glad you're not the type to take arguments personally, I enjoy debates too but I know I can come off as a bit harsh. It's always the difficulty with the internet, where there are no facial expressions, and I always feel like I'm somehow dumbing down my argument if I post a bunch of smiley faces in there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by greendragon06 (Post 1770425661)
While I understand where you are coming from ljos, are all qualities male or female by society's standards alone? Can we say with 100% certainty that there are not some things that are innately male and innately female? I'm very hesitant to put things in black and white because I think that there are grays in nearly everything.
Even the idea of their only being two sexes is an idea created by society as there is more than two sexes although I would have to pull the research to tell you how many there actually are, but xx and xy are not the only genetic sexes there is also xxy and xo at least and probably other combinations as well.

I would say that there are female and male things but only with regard to physical abilities. Even then I am extremely hesitant to call them male or female, as I know it upsets a lot, if not most trans* people to hear things like "becoming pregnant = FEMALE" (since trans men can indeed become pregnant while trans women cannot and all other trans* people are a mixture thereof). So I will accept that if you are born with a uterus, you can likely become pregnant, if you are born with testicles you can likely get someone pregnant and there's probably also some strength and muscle related differences in the general build up of the bodies, though those can I think all be overcome in most cases with the right workout.
There is nothing inherent about being born with a uterus and.. I don't know, liking fashion and the colour pink or about being born with testicles and liking cars and sports. Those are social standards we are raised with, and they change between generations, which I think is proof enough that they have nothing to do with the body we are born with.

And yes, there are much more than two sexes. There is a huge variety of intersex people though most of them are sadly mutilated by doctors at their birth to forcefully push them into the mold of either male or female. The question of chromosomes is always a funny one too because it's something people tend to fall back on, while the fact is that most people have never had a chromosome test and therefore cannot know a 100% which chromosomes they have!
If you're interested, here [TW: medical violence] is a fantastic blog post about the variety of genitalia (specifically regarding intersex) and how they are changed by doctors to "fit" either a vagina or penis. It also mentions some chromosome differences.
Here is also a very good quote from the same blog (link to the post):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intersex roadshow
There is a lot of variation in how each of the four basic parts of the genitalia develop from person to person in all of us. For example, we acknowledge with a lot of rib-elbowing the variation in penile size. Variation in the size and shape of genitalia, and in other parts of the body, is part of human diversity. Surgeons are well aware that livers and lungs and blood vessels vary a lot between individuals, and may look quite different from an iconic anatomical diagram. But we rarely care about having an unusually shaped liver. The shape of genitals, however, is given huge cultural weight, because we pin our commitment to dyadic gender roles on them. We look at the shape of a newborn’s genitalia and project a future of dresses and diets and talking about emotions, or sports and strength and getting under the hood of a car. We do know that people are complicated. Most of us want to be more than walking gender stereotypes. Still, we understand people through the lens of dyadic gender difference, and intersex people call that into question. When we see a baby born with intermediate genitalia, and can’t project a future for them based on our well-known gender narratives, people in our society—including doctors—freak out.


Also... blueberry coffee?? That is a thing? O____o



greendragon06 02-02-2012 05:20 AM

Ljos.... I think I found you on another website today o_O
So I have a question to put forth to you... if someone said the things that they do not like about their sex are specific body parts that the opposite sex does not have and physical characteristics such as voice, muscles etc and not specifically certain personality traits deemed male or female, how would you process that?
Yes, blueberry coffee is real, I love it, I'm drinking some right now because I am doing some research.

ljosberinn 02-02-2012 01:28 PM



Really? Where? :)

How would I process that? I'm not sure I understand your question.. so if someone assigned female at birth said that they didn't like their genitals/voice/other physical traits generally seen as belonging to people with uterus..es(?) then.. what? Sorry, I'm going to need you to elaborate.. :x

I can't decide whether I think blueberry coffee sounds horrible or interesting.. where do you get it from?




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