Okie dokie... I want to start off with props were they are due. So first props go to jellysundae: for her thread inspiring me to do this and The Whitewolf Shaman: because his idea in her thread is very similar to my idea well roughly at least enough to warrant recognition.

I also would like to state that this is going to be a co authored thread by myself Akio Shentoshi / Zade_Wrintar and Ivvy / Lunna Fay since we came up with this together. I Akio will state my case in first post and ivvy will let you know her side and thoughts on the second post when she takes over. Without further stalling lets get on with it.

So now that is out of the way i would like to say that you as the members of menewsha are more than welcome to chime in your to cents at while. I however will not tolerate any bashing or non constructive criticism. Voice your opinions and different ideas and views but please be courteous of your fellow members is all im asking.Plus as a personal preference i dont mind a little goofing but please try and stay on topic!!! I dont want this turning into a spamfest.

If i get enough ideas and interest from you guys and gals then i will start a poll to be voted on so that people get their most like one brought to the attention of the moderators and administration. If i dont get enough diverse opinions and or majority agreement that my idea rocks that hardcore i will post a poll regardless for my idea versus keeping things as they are now sounds far enough ya.

Also if you havnt noticed there is already a poll for one of my main points already and that is to see if more people other than myself and ivvy that think the name of the so called newbie forum FRESH MEAT should be changed. Which we will get into a little bit later but for now please vote we would very much like to know.

As the above post states the first on the agenda is changing the name of the forum fresh meat. The problems menewsha has been having in the last few years of people leaving the site whether it be old members for personal reasons or new members who stay for a few days and then vanish. Making a slow but steady decline in user activity. Now personal stuff and the real world happen so there isnt much to be done on that end. However i think one of the main reasons new members tend to vanish in my opinion is that right from the start they get a feeling of being shun'd to the lonely corners of the abrasive named fresh meat forum which even if not intended comes off as saying they are the proverbial lambs to the slaughter. It is a archaic inside joke by one of the first staff members that just isnt relevant any longer in my opinion.

This is so counter productive to why this site was created in the first place. From my understanding this site was made to be a home a sanctuary for those that found other avatar site members rude unhelpful and mean to those that were new as if they didnt even matter to them and wernt needed.To help people in search of good conversation and friends to meet and call one another online mates. Which if this is indeed the case then a name like fresh meat that is so strongly suggested to be the very first place you go makes no sense what so ever to me but thats just my opinion. So lets try to make it more friendly with the first step being to come up with a name that is more welcomeing and pardon the pun fresh. Let the suggestion fly so that i may start a poll yes im pole happy lol on the new name.

Now on to the second and most important thing on the agenda the layout of the "fresh meat forum" I say this because even with a snappy name without a reason to stay and converse the forum will still wither an die as it is today. The way it is now lets say our new users are billy, bobby, and tommy. Billy will post is introduction thread and if he is lucky one or two older members will pop by and say hello and welcome but rarely is a good insightful conversation gonna take place. Same for bobby and tommy now the three new members who all posted in the same place that was suppose to let them get their feet wet and meet people. Just left that part of the forum without ever meeting one another a few blurbs from a older member who most likely only had the time to stop by and say hi before heading back to their own threads and are out in the wild naked without getting even a splash before jumping into the charity pool for cloths.Plus not only does this method not have its intended effect it also messy and scattered.

So my idea is to throw away the idea of every new person haveing their own thread that they start because unless they are very lucky they are the only person that is going to post in it anyway. Make the "fresh Meat forum" be a few sticky's . The first for rules. The second for bbc codes and more advance help. The third and final sticky is the major overhaul the volunteer group ran charity that is brand new not dragged from some were else. That isnt ran by one person but the whole charity community if you run a charity and have time the go in voluntarily and give out cloths to those that have meet the rule requirments and chat with the newbies for no other reason than to make friends. This however is not just a charity it is were you go to make your first post get your feet wet and meet people. Now billy, bobby, and tommy go to this thread they all post their introduction post around the same time and billy says hey im new as well to tommy and tommy says the same to bobby and guess what now they have older members and brand news members to have a conversation with in one place. So they dont need to run off to make freinds or get cloths from newbie centric charity's. They know they have freinds with at least one thing in commen right were they are being new and if they follow the rules and make friends they most likely not garuntedly will get cloths or monies from a volunteer or just one of the older members they have made freinds with. The thread could have the potential to be the biggest most popular thread on the site given time. Contest and polls and games like a little word game could be held the sky is almost the limit.

Well as stated above this thread is a concept area for all of us to discuss and possibly create action to revamp or overhaul the fresh meat forum area. We new or old have more than likely all been there once. My account will be three years old in February so I have been here a while but I do recall that first thread i made.. It was pretty much a dead area. Even though I checked back a lot to try and meet people they just didn't really come. So I moved out to the charities forum hoping to meet newer members to test the waters. Mene is full of nice people but it can be nerve racking to make that leap. I frequent the fresh meat forum and try to welcome as many new members as I can and on occasion I will donate a basic outfit or gold to a new member so they feel less exposed. But not enough people go into fresh meat to keep it friendly and alive. I see the same handful of users and mods in there acting as the welcome wagon.

I think that we should have more activity there. I agree with Akio that the stickies should be updated to a how to walk through, a mingle area where old and new can greet and meet to help the transition to the main body of the site, and also a link up post in its own sticky with outgoing links to the newbie specialty charities and possibly some of the higher traffic come all threads on the site, like the users pick thread or in my suggestion hummy's Random Acts of Kindness thread as they welcome everyone and it is a fun and friendly vibe in there that even me as a recent lurker who has seen most of my close friends here vanish felt like i had always been there. Just a few places that new users can jump right in and be part of the community. I guess in a way a little direction in the mass of threads here. A jumping off point per say.

And we come to the name "Fresh Meat" Yes its cute if you have a silly sense of humor, but it can be offensive to some or just a little off putting to those shyer or more serious users. We need something new and refreshing to make people feel welcome and comfortable. I personally have no real issue with the name but I have seen many who do wish it were called something else. So I thought I would throw that out there.

So thats is I want to hear ideas from old and new user and staff alike. Just be respectful and follow the ToS and we will be oki-doki; :)

If we all come together and really share our ideas we may be able to make some changes here. And I know how much menewshans like to take action.

(jelly said we could bring up this topic. >.< so we ran with it)

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Damia Flagg:
dana eleanor:
LizzyCollinsDeArc:
Mehimaru:
ObviouslyAya:
Vickyll3:
~Yue~:
Cassette:
Nuruhanj:
Maria-Minamino:
Queen_Andais:
The Wandering Poet:
TheDesireMistress:
fireprincess:
Imagination:
Roxxxy:
hummy:
Ace Strife:
dragoness129:
dragonjake:
Emma Corrin:
Goblin Maiden:
Izumi:
maidenroseheart:
Mehimaru:
Queen_Andais:
sadrain:
Silenia:
The Wandering Poet:


a lot of pinging here for the sake of bringing some that I know in here to get the ideas flowing.. please pass it along to your friends as well to keep it alive so we may actually get a good variety of feedback for staff to see so we can make it happen.

Sorry if any of you hate pings if this is the case you may ping, comment or pm me and let me know so I can make sure not to ping you again. :heart: you guys.

Changing the name of the forum from Fresh Meat to New User/New Member, might be a wonderful idea. Never been offended by the title of Fresh Meat, but I could see how some would be unhappy with it.

The concept of having one main thread where people get to stop in and chat for the first time since joining the site, meeting new people would be a positive thing. The thread would need to have a dedicated staff of older members that will stop in and chat on a regular basis, this would also apply to the donating aspect of your suggestion. Instead of creating a new charity, why not link the users to the charities already existing for new users? Asking the charity community to expand their donating might becoming taxing over time. (I would love to be a part of the dedicated staff of older members assisting and chatting with the new members.)

Would it be possible to create an account where older members such as myself could donate items for the new members rather then hand them out ourselves?

I am curious on the statistics for new members joining. New members that stay for 30 days. New members that stay for 6 months. New members that stay for 1 year. How active they are during that time frame.

While I don't have supremely strong feelings about the forum section name, I do think that changing it is a good idea. As both of you mentioned- it's two small words, indeed, but they can make a beginning impact on new users to Menewsha. There aren't confident net-savvy forumers behind every screen. It's okay to lol and crack jokes about the section title, but it's also easy to forget that others -whether they be shy, insecure, sassy or sarcastic- may not feel the same way. I don't have any suggestions currently for a new name, but I'm definitely interested to see where this goes and what other people think.

I also like the idea of updated stickies, and some kind of community welcome thread. I think Akio explained things very well (with billy, bobby, tommy). Many new threads don't get a lot of replies, leading to members feeling unwelcome or ignored. Or we get spam-filled threads with too many emotes and requests for gold. If there was some kind of main-welcome thread where everyone could go, it'd almost be like a hangout!

One thing about the Fresh Meat section that greatly saddens me, is when I see one user's name as the last poster for practically the entire front page. Simple; it's a way to get gold. Go through the FM section and say some kind of brief hello to everyone. We all know it happens, and even if there is a decent amount of sincerity involved it doesn't justify anything. It annoys me, so I don't really post in the section anymore.

I guess there are positives and negatives, but I like the idea. Or at least the idea of cleaning up / making changes in the Fresh Meat section. I don't like how it is now. Lacking activity. And on a random side note, I'd like to throw out there that I like it that Mene doesn't do newbie packs! A lot of new users ask about them (especially if they come from Gaia). I like the idea of members -new and old- giving and receiving on their own terms, helping out, building friendships and having a good time.

It's late here, it took me a while to write this post cause my brain doesn't wanna work xD

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Originally Posted by Queen_Andais

The thread would need to have a dedicated staff of older members that will stop in and chat on a regular basis, this would also apply to the donating aspect of your suggestion. Instead of creating a new charity, why not link the users to the charities already existing for new users? Asking the charity community to expand their donating might becoming taxing over time.

:mrmayor: I'd love to be a New-to-Mene-forum-section-regular! Not that I've been around Mene for super long, lawl. I also agree that a new chairty doesn't need to be made; linking to pre-existing newb-helper threads is a good idea. And I'm not overly concerned about new users getting items right away. Don't get me wrong, donating is awesome! But simply chatting in the thread would be a great way to earn gold for starters. We should encourage activity and dedication, so that members don't rely on others to get what they want.

@ObviouslyAya Well i see your point making it just a one thread introduction hangout rather than a charity would be fine too. I would like to clarify that i didnt mean that charity donations was mandated or promised rather a perk if you made friends as friends help one another. That charity owners would be the perfect ones to volunteer there time because they are usually the most friendly and given individuals on mene. So more inclined to donate if certain criteria was meet which isnt there for donations but more so insentive for them to stick around and stay active in the thread.

@Queen_Andais The account for older members is a great idea but would be really hard to build properly for multiple users and maintain i think. Yet still great none the less.

I would like to say to those that read the wall o text and commented thank you if nothing else comes of this thread i am happy to atleast had two people reply honestly. I hope it goes some were but from this point its out of my control.

P.S. I would like to have jellysundae throw her opinion in the ring since its based off her thread but she said it was to much text for her to read. So if someone would like to give her the cliff notes that would be fantastic . >>ivvy

That was quite a bit to read, especially at 3 am.

I like your idea to

... throw away the idea of every new person haveing their own thread that they start because unless they are very lucky they are the only person that is going to post in it anyway. Make the "fresh Meat forum" be a few sticky's . The first for rules. The second for bbc codes and more advance help. The third and final sticky is the major overhaul the volunteer group ran charity that is brand new not dragged from some were else. ... Now billy, bobby, and tommy go to this thread they all post their introduction post around the same time and ... now they have older members and brand news members to have a conversation with in one place. ... The thread could have the potential to be the biggest most popular thread on the site given time.

And a name change might be good for it. I have always thought it sounded odd.

Thank you dragoness129 would you have any suggestions as to what you would like the name to change to?

Linnea:

I agree that the forum name does need changed. 'Fresh Meat' has always seemed a little harsh. I mean, on the one hand I can see how it's just another one of mene's little quirks. Funny in it's own way. But when you're new, you don't know anyone and the initiation forum implies that you're about to get roasted by the rest of the community... Yeah, the joke only goes so far.

As for users -not- having their own initiation threads, I'm completely against that. I think that users introducing themselves in their own thread is an important part of the forum. By all means have a sticky where they can introduce themselves too. Just completely getting rid of where they can create an introductory thread seems a little backwards. Especially since Mene doesn't start you out with gold or items, so by creating your introduction thread you get the 50g bonus plus whatever you earn. It helps them get to their first item faster, or get their rag dress right away. Rather than getting rid of everyone's introductory threads, I say that other users just make more of an effort to go into the forum and reply to threads. I know that I do when the forums are quiet and I have some time to post.

I don't think that charity needs to be made, especially as there are already a few in the charity forum. By all means, link them in the Fresh Meat forum, but I don't think that they should be moved. Especially when it can be hard for newcomers to adjust to the layout of sites. A little hangout, on the other hand, is a great idea.

I don't know really... for me it's the same ^^

that wall of text so early in the morning will have to wait for me to read.
to be honest i just skimmed it.
what i got out of it is someone wants to change our 'fresh meat' to a more friendly name?
i loved that it was called 'fresh meat' and have always frequented this forum to welcome new members.
i'll add more of my two cents once i have woken up, walked puppie-to-be-named-later and had some earl grey, hot!
thank you for the ping, Ivvy.
i love pings, except during our crazy event threads.
*hummy ish still trying to finish all of her pings and pm's*
<3.
and the third times a charm?
nope, it was the forth!

Carzeebear made a thread in Fresh Meat that was intended to get newer members to chat. I think more attention to that thread would be good to let new people know that they can jump in and chat.

As for the name, I was never offended by it. I also disagree with users not having to make an intro thread. As Cassie mentioned, it gives them a gold bonus that helps them not be naked so it's kind of silly to not make them post something. I also think that the stickys are fine as they are. They help new users EARN their gold and not expect hand outs. Heck, I walk around naked in my undies half the time so I really do not see the big deal in walking around in undies.

I'm sorry, I have limited internet at the moment... just an idea for newbies... perhaps having them have a list of quests to fulfill like playing a game of tetris or visiting a certain subforum and talking to people there as an incentive to get to know us and us them... maybe earn a little extra gold for it? And they update us on that in the "fresh meat" section that is being rehauled...

There is already something like that. Menewshan Achievements. It's not been made official, but the tasks within this help you make friends and earn gold.

The name is cute and funny, and it doesnt really bother me now....

But I do remembered when I joined it was kinda like "haha your new and naked" I'm shy so I didnt say much but hi or hello
I think maybe the name should be changed to something simple like "Welcome to Menewsha!" or "New here?" something less harsh
Then over time they can grow to love mene and its humor in other places and our item

My thoughts.

1) You're the first person in five years to make a forward 'movement' about changing the forum name. Doesn't that say something? It's a quirky little joke. I fear for the individual if they cannot handle 'fresh meat' on the internet ...

2) Staff members almost always post in the FM forum. How many threads do you see with 0 replies?

3) New members are more likely to meet older users if they venture out in to other forums, especially the charity forum. There's just no need for a single newbie charity thread when there is pretty much a whole forum for it. If the user doesn't want to expand their knowledge of the site and join in with other threads, then there is little point in them being on a posting/interaction based website ...

I'm sorry this seems so negative, but it just causes unnecessary strain on the staff for no particular reason. There is a lot of support for new members. I've seen current members post a lot worse in comparison to being offended by 'fresh meat.' They are just my thoughts.

Some valid and diverse points so far. I will be making a tldr clifnotes part to my post so it is easier for yall to get the points as well since I know a wall of text to some is daunting,

Originally Posted by ObviouslyAya

I also like the idea of updated stickies, and some kind of community welcome thread. I think Akio explained things very well (with billy, bobby, tommy). Many new threads don't get a lot of replies, leading to members feeling unwelcome or ignored. Or we get spam-filled threads with too many emotes and requests for gold. If there was some kind of main-welcome thread where everyone could go, it'd almost be like a hangout!

One thing about the Fresh Meat section that greatly saddens me, is when I see one user's name as the last poster for practically the entire front page. Simple; it's a way to get gold. Go through the FM section and say some kind of brief hello to everyone. We all know it happens, and even if there is a decent amount of sincerity involved it doesn't justify anything. It annoys me, so I don't really post in the section anymore.

I post there sometimes, but it is not really a section of the site that I think about that often. Most of the time when I post in Fresh Meat I try to stick to more of the threads that have few post, unless it is a thread that has a very interesting introduction.
I think there is a thread sort of like that already Little Sisters "Welcome to Menewsha! (Visit here for a good old chat)". I haven't read all of that thread, but I sort of think it would do what has been suggested.

Originally Posted by Cassette

I agree that the forum name does need changed. 'Fresh Meat' has always seemed a little harsh. I mean, on the one hand I can see how it's just another one of mene's little quirks. Funny in it's own way. But when you're new, you don't know anyone and the initiation forum implies that you're about to get roasted by the rest of the community... Yeah, the joke only goes so far.

As for users -not- having their own initiation threads, I'm completely against that. I think that users introducing themselves in their own thread is an important part of the forum. By all means have a sticky where they can introduce themselves too. Just completely getting rid of where they can create an introductory thread seems a little backwards. Especially since Mene doesn't start you out with gold or items, so by creating your introduction thread you get the 50g bonus plus whatever you earn. It helps them get to their first item faster, or get their rag dress right away. Rather than getting rid of everyone's introductory threads, I say that other users just make more of an effort to go into the forum and reply to threads. I know that I do when the forums are quiet and I have some time to post.

I don't really think the forum needs a new name, maybe just add a little to it.
Something like Fresh Meat Welcoming Center, that way it would keep the sense of humor & show new people what we love mene for, the way people try to make you feel welcome here.

I'm with you about not getting rid of the introductory threads. I like reading some of them & it helps you find out a little about people. I like seeing how creative people are & it is a way for people to try to make some new friends.

I don't know if everyone needs to make the introduction thread on the first day, it may be better to do it after a few days or a week. That would give a new person time to look around & get a feel for the site.

I was shy & didn't post much when I joined, it took me almost a year before I really got active & found a place that I felt comfortable with. Hummy's "♥random acts of kindness♥ chat & hangout~~everyone is special to us!" thread does have the feel of what I love this site for. It shows the best in people & makes everyone feel welcome.

I actually rather like the name "Fresh Meat." I don't know anyone who would find that offensive but actually cute and funny. I think it helps to welcome the newbies into the nature of the site instead of welcoming them into the "New Members Forum" or something similar to that name. I feel like "Fresh Meat" is more down to earth and quirky and something like "New Members Forum" seems calculated and cold.

As for one big hangout - I know that Carzee took it upon herself to create a hangout for the newbies instead of having them post in their own different threads. I don't think doing away with creating your own thread is going to be that much of a difference. I like the idea that they are making their first posts and their first threads in a controlled environment. They can post their own thread and see if it lives up to the rules of Mene. It's a great way to check and see if they have read the rules on no spamming and no bumping instead of assuming they did. It's ALSO a great way for them to earn their first bits of gold. You always get more gold when you CREATE a thread rather than just post in one. AND having others post in your thread gives you a small amount of gold as well which really helps the newbies get on their feet.

BUT I like the idea of a big hangout. I suggested moving Carzee's thread to become a sticky. Whether it's Carzee's thread or something new entirely it doesn't matter. BUT Jelly stated that having the thread as a sticky could seem very intimidating. New users (and even old users) are afraid to venture into stickies because they seem "all important" and scary and I agreed with her stance. Maybe advertising the threads at the beginning of the stickies in the forum would be a good idea instead. (like..."Looking for a place to hangout as a newbie? Check out this newbie hand out thread and get to know old and new members just like you!")

There should be something done to try to keep new members around though. I think maybe having a reward system for older members or something of the sort to encourage them to post and welcome new members might be kind of cool. For ever 50 members they welcome and have an actual conversation with, they get a cool badge or a cute little item of something of the sort. (This is just an idea I'm pulling out of thin air right now so forgive me if it's not as thought out as some may want newbie ideas to be). I'm open to hearing other ideas as well but for now, I'm out of new ones lol

@Spring`Tyme Fresh The fact it hasnt been challenged in 5 years tells me nothing really. I mean our generation coined the phrase rebel without a cause. We want to rebel but dont because we have become a society of sheep that accept the status quo rather than buck the system and dare to ask for change.

Also thats the point staff and a few people try to raise there gold count post there. If you go back and look its the same people over and over as the welcome wagon. Regardless of your intentions there really is only so many ways you can say hi and welcome.

@Mystic They still would have to post and introduction just in a thread with others rather than talking to themselves in a self made thread in dead forums.


@ those that like fresh meat as the name.... How would you feel about a compramise like Damia Flagg said? Something like Fresh Meat Welcoming Center

@everyone else thank you keep up the discussion and good suggestions the more diverse points the better.

Akio: I like the idea of more hang out type threads in that forum. Dunno how a big thread with a ton of replies would work as an introduction thread because that may intimidate some people. For more shy members, I do know that sometimes they have a hard time posting to begin with. I do love the idea of having more old members get into that section of the site and strike up conversation with new members but I really have no suggestions on how to do that. I used to frequent that forum but haven't much in a while.

People still need a place to introduce themselves. Even if most of them have forgotten/never learned how that's properly done I don't think it means we need to change that section to a one stickied discussion. I like the name fresh meat. I think it's cute. If people are that offended by it then they shouldn't be on the internet. They should be in a rubber room on pills that keep them calm and numb.

Warning: I am very TL;DR tonight so I may have missed points but...

I don't find the name Fresh Meat all that derogatory but I can't speak for every case. Honestly, I was confused by it when I joined before I realized it was for new members. I like Damia's point of adding "Welcome Center" or something to it so that its less confusing and clear what its for.

I think the issue isn't with the Fresh Meat sub-forum, really, but with the nature of a "welcome, new user!" forum in general. No matter how its structured/restructured, new users will probably still use it in the same way it is now aka one user posts a new thread to introduce themselves solely and a few members/staff welcome them and then the user almost never returns to the thread. As long as thread creating permission is made available in a welcome forum, new users will take the liberty to make sole threads to introduce themselves.

Older users just don't get excited about posting in there and they still wouldn't be if it were sticky in the forum. In fact, I feel that it would run more older users away when confronted with a several thousand post sized sticky that grows a post or three every five to thirty minutes with a mix of introductions and chatter. New users would also tend to just breeze by other new user's posts. I mean, how many new users post in other new user's threads, as is? A minority. Generally, its not in a new user's mindset at the time TO welcome but BE welcomed.

It would also mean that if a conversation did begin in a main sticky, new posts/introductions would get overlooked easily depending on the frequency of posting. Now, I'm not sure if its a deterrent or not but it would be depressing if a new user made an introduction in a large sticky only to return to it after a few hours/days to find that the sticky has grown so much that they can't tell if they were welcomed or not. Older users know that the little button beside the thread icon can take you to where you left off in a thread but a new user might not- they'll never know if they were welcomed or not since there's been a lot of chatter, conversations, introductions, and welcomes to other users and their post(s) has been buried a dozen or two pages back.

I feel that most of the issues brought up about the Fresh Meat Forum could be resolved if there was a more comprehensive yet easy to understand tutorial introduced upon sign up (sidenote: I haven't seen what's after the signup in a long time, it may have changed and have more information nowadays). It would educate newer users on where to find charities, hangouts, and other places of interest; introduce them to BBCode and where to find the help desk (where all the information and FAQ is already contained), tell them how to buy/wear clothing, and how to get started posting in the forums. Shyness and fear of messing something up (posting in the wrong forum, breaking a rule, etc.) really tends to trip a lot of people up just as much as feeling welcome or not.

And, yeah, reiterating that the Menewshan Achievements would also help in the educating new users area. Getting comfortable with how the system works is equally as good as feeling welcomed by the people you're posting to/with.

TL;DR: There's not much you can do about the forum structure itself because of the nature of the beast that is a "Welcome, New User!" Forum. People, new and old users alike, tend to skip over posting/replying in it regardless of its format (single threads vs a sticky). It seems monotonous after awhile.

The idea would be to get new users comfortable enough with the rules/site system through tutorials so that they explore/post in the main forums and in threads with topics that pique their interest and find users with similar interests instead of relying on the welcome forum that has a mixed bag of interests and users. It exists as a safety net for those who need it or want it.

Also, not sure if word games would be permissible in a gold-earning forum (unless during an event). That's why the Word Games forum is its own deal in the forums (to disallow gold earning).

Ok, I'm approaching that nasty wall of text from a sideways position and have read the responses first :ninja: I'll go through and read the first/second posts in a mo.

*girds loins*

Changing the forum name
We've been talking about doing that, on and off, for a very long time, Josh named that forum Fresh Meat initially, he thought it was witty, meh. But, as the people who've responded to this thread so far have aptly demonstrated, a lot of people have no issue with the name at all. On a more prosaic level, if a forum's name gets changed it needs a new forum icon, and that requires Yan to make one, and Inso to synch it into the live site. Yan wants to remake all the forum icons. If and when he gets a chance to do that, that is when we'll go back to our back and forth about the possibility of changing the name.

The name "Fresh Meat" being why people leave
Please excuse my bluntness, but that's a pretty ludicrous claim. People maybe give up on Mene because they don't get any responses in their FM thread, and draw inaccurate conclusions from that (the site's dead, we're all elitist bitches, etc.), but I can't imagine anyone getting their panties into such a bunch that they'd feel they had no choice but to leave, over the name of a forum, and if they did... :ninja: Unprofessional of me to say that we don't really want users who are that much of a flake?

Scrapping introductory threads
I think enough people have already said why that would be a bad idea. So I don't need to reiterate those reasons.

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The main issue with the FM forum is you guys, the users. FM is wholesale ignored by the majority of people. I nagged and nagged and nagged Inso to code a notification that would pop up on people's dash (like it does for new mail) for when new threads were made in FM. Something people could disable if they chose. He did do this, in a way, he had a message be posted in the chatroom. But the chatrooms died a death because no-one knew they were there, and that wasn't what I'd wanted anyway, I wanted something that was right in people's face, wherever they were on the site (if they chose to use it), so they could go straight to the new thread and say hi.

I encouraged Carzeebear to make that hangout in FM, I don't know if any new users have ventured into it, or it any other people chat in there much, I don't have time myself. FM is like some tumbleweed laden ghost town, but that's because it's not relevant to the majority of the people on the site. Try as I might to encourage people to make threads in there, they don't.

Or, as incidents in the past have shown us, people with the wrong temperament and their own agendas make them. There used to be a newbie adoption agency, but the girl who ran it was a complete bitch to some new users. She was that obnoxious to one couple who signed up that they felt compelled to contact Support about their treatment from her, and they never visited the site ever again. This was a married 20 something couple who very likely would have been donators; driven away by someone with an attitude problem. This girl also felt that she deserved to be made a mod because she ran this thread. We consequently locked it and she left in a huff...and we've not allowed anyone to make anything similar since.

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not done, hit save by accident!

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New users are indeed intimidated by stickies, or, they don't even see them. New and old users alike can stuffer from "sticky blindness". It's never much of a good idea to sticky a hangout, as it puts off as many as it draws in *shrugs*

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I know the FM stickies need a revamp. Please, I'm not trying to sound like I'm all GRRR! at you or anything, but these kind of comments grate on me, I feel like you guys think we sit around doing nothing. These things don't get visibly done because; they're either already a WIP in the staff areas, or simply because we have a big ol' list of stuff to do, and these are not near the top of that list.

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I have every intention of creating a Thrift Shop account, that will work exactly like a thrift shop; people will give items to it and they will be resold very cheap. That I intend to live in a sticky in FM, because it will get lost otherwise. I'm fully aware that people on here WILL abuse it. Users with plenty of gold and items will buy stuff from it to either keep or sellback, because people are greedy, but the intent for this account is to give new users somewhere to get something better than a ragged shirt for their 50 gold first thread bonus.
Whether this account survives or fails will be a nice social experiment, and a pretty clear indication of the true greed levels of some of our users.

when i was just a young fresh meater myself, i thought it was hilarious that we were called such and i knew this was a place i'd like to stick around... i am an easy sell for a little bit of humor :yes:

i only read through those huge posts just once, but to my understanding, i thought the point of that forum was to get people to sort of learn the ropes so that they can eventually venture out into the rest of mene... they aren't meant to stay in the fresh meat forum forever

being as i am one of the many menewshans who do greet the new users, i see that there is a lot of support and friendliness right off the plate and a lot of help offered too... often times, the older users offer links to other hangouts and invite them to post :yes: it's really quite friendly

i love that there is one thread in the fresh meat forum that is a hang out and i wouldn't want to see any more cluttering it up and i wouldn't want to see it made into a sticky either

the idea of a sticky made thrift store is pretty neat too since i know that sometimes the shops can be a little overwhelming...

anyways... i guess i don't really see much of a problem, and i definitely don't see such a big problem that it needs to take precedent over everything else... change is good thing and making things better is fantastic but i am also a firm believer in that if it's not broke, don't fix it

Gah ok. So I want to reply to Jelly's comment more then anything, as in general I think there's nothing inheritablely wrong with Fresh Meat. Josh was never the witty'est guy as I recall, but I remember him launching this site in the first place and honestly, I now feel "Fresh Meat" makes this site a little unique. But the name confuses new user's.

First little disclaimer, I've been a member of this site since 2007, and I drift in and out on my leisure. I remember this site in it's beginnings and I've seen and remember all of the awesome improvements we've seen over the years.

Jelly, I was one of the volunteers for the old adoption agency! Well they where called "Mommy's and Daddy's", but it was a good time till as you said, the creator was all tart and rude to people. I actually left the site cause of that originally, but let it be said that if something like that was to start up again I'd be gun ho to help, in concept that was something that really helped the new users. I ushered new members in and helped them settle into the site and to feel comfortable here. While the going was good, it worked, really really well... Anyways not why I'm commenting.

I generally agree with the reply's, but I wanted to enforce and support what jelly's said about changing the forum name. (and I'm actually excited about the idea of new icons!)

On the note of Fresh Meat being ineffective

So I think we can all agree that while introductory might not be the most.. Effective in the sites life from a point of view that the user base kind of forgets about it. But it is a tried and proven vital piece of the puzzle for a community site to function well. There's no getting around that. We need a Fresh Meat. That's not to say it couldn't be improved though.

From a user experience point of view, I believe the welcome new users section of the site is an area which could stand for the most improvement over all, and has changed the least since the beginning out of the entire site. It has remained unchanged from the very beginning. There's two flow issues that really stand out to me, and if you don't mind I'd like to mention them briefly.

Problem number one, the current member base tends to forget about the Fresh Meat area. I really like the possibility of being alerted that there's a new thread created and it sounds like a viable and practical solution to that major problem.

Problem number two. Apon sign up there's very little direction for new user's. It's improved slightly but I remember having a fair amount of cases of people never seeing the welcome area of glazing over it. User's love Stick and "New User area" blindness. I haven't made a account recently so I'm not intimately familiar with the process, but I know it hasn't changed massively. I need not mention the massively successful site that put avatar sites on the map, their sign up system is more stream lined and very user friendly. Even though it's a marketing cluttered mess of a site. You customize your avatar, and you're pointed in the right direction, and given a rather intimate interactive experience. Menewsha's new user experience fall's a little.. Flat in my opinion. I don't recall seeing this issue mentioned anywhere ever, so there it is..


TL;DR: I agree and support jelly's statement and I wanted to point out that the Fresh Meat / New user section suffers from two flow problems that could be addressed and could greatly help with the over all experience for new members. Also I some what wish there was still a user welcome group to greet and help out new users (not items or gold).

Soda Pop out! 8)