Menewsha Avatar Community

Menewsha Avatar Community (https://www.menewsha.com/forum/index.php)
-   Artist’s Nook (https://www.menewsha.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=89)
-   -   Posting Traced Works Allowed in an Art Community (https://www.menewsha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110777)

MurasakiCrown 02-07-2009 02:46 AM

Posting Traced Works Allowed in an Art Community
 
deviantART now allows the submission of traced works into its fanart galleries.

Here is the most recent article on the issue:
News: Break It Down Easy- Tracing Edition.

A journal by another staff member: [url=http://realitysquared.deviantart.com/journal/23034064/]The Policy on Copyright

And of course, the article that started it all: Issues on Copying

As well as a very Interesting Comment

The most obvious problem here is that deviantART is now breaking the law.
The following quote is taken from the United States Copyright Office website:

Quote:

Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States
(title 17, U. S. Code) to the authors of “original works of authorship,” including
literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works. This
protection is available to both published and unpublished works. Section 106
of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive
right to do and to authorize others to do the following:
• To reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords;
• To prepare derivative works based upon the work;
• To distribute copies or phonorecords of the work to the public by sale or
other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;
• To perform the work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and
choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual
works;
• To display the work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and
choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural
works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual
work; and
• In the case of sound recordings,* to perform the work publicly by means of
a digital audio transmission.
In addition, certain authors of works of visual art have the rights of attribution
and integrity as described in section 106A of the 1976 Copyright Act. For
further information, see Circular 40, Copyright Registration for Works of the
Visual Arts.
It is illegal for anyone to violate any of the rights provided by the copyright
law to the owner of copyright. These rights, however, are not unlimited in
scope. Sections 107 through 121 of the 1976 Copyright Act establish limitations
on these rights. In some cases, these limitations are specified exemptions from
copyright liability. One major limitation is the doctrine of “fair use,” which
is given a statutory basis in section 107 of the 1976 Copyright Act. In other
instances, the limitation takes the form of a “compulsory license” under which
certain limited uses of copyrighted works are permitted upon payment of
specified royalties and compliance with statutory conditions. For further information
about the limitations of any of these rights, consult the copyright law or
write to the Copyright Office.
Basically, in order for any person to do anything stated in the bullets, the person MUST have permission from the original artist.

DeviantART justifies their breach of the law in the following way:
Quote:

Although the rights given to a copyright owner are extensive and include the exclusive right to permit others to make copies of the work, copyright owners are not required to use those rights and are also not required to police or attempt to stop infringements of the copyright by others. The copyright itself survives and the copyright owner can engage in selective policing without essentially any reduction in the level of protection they can later claim if they need to. This is unlike trademarks and patent laws. When you consider that a copyright lasts for the life of the author plus 50 or 70 years after his or her death, it is impossible to imagine a copyright owner of a popular work suing everybody who might be involved in infringement. There is, in fact, a rational expectation that only meaningful infringements, ones that result in a significant economic harm, will be pursued by copyright owners. For example, there is a concept called “de minimis” infringement applied by Courts to deny relief to a copyright owner essentially on the “no harm, no foul” premise.

There are many circumstances where copyright owners freely and openly encourage and support the use of their works by others. Stock images are frequently dedicated for open use in non-commercial applications. Fan art is also one of these situations.
Just because the original artist cannot keep up with the astounding amount of offenses against them does not mean that the law doesn't hold. Under their reasoning, stealing would be alright as long as the person you're stealing from didn't notice, or didn't have time to sue you for it, or didn't notice and therefore could not sue you for them, even though an offense has clearly been made.

Also: Not every image is a stock image. It cannot, therefore, be assumed that they are.

Quote:

Some deviants and others provide allowance for their artwork to be used within Creative Commons Licensing, which they indicate within the deviation description. Artists who are misled and confused into believing that our tracing policy permits anyone to take any image on deviantART and simply trace it without permission should be assured that we will always remove this when requested by the artist of the original image, and you should use the appropriate reporting tools to bring it to our attention, so we can remove it.
So basically, deviantART is breaking the law, and saying that the artist MUST track down anyone who is using their image without permission because of lax on part of the staff members?

Even those who support the staff members have found themselves at a loss for words of defense.

Please keep in mind that I am NOT stating that tracing is not art. I am saying that tracing and submitting a work without the permission of the user is against the law.

Tracing a work and submitting it without the artist not having said "no" is not permission. It just means they don't know.

Now I will have to go and edit all of the images in my gallery so that they clearly state that it is NOT permissible to, in any way, reproduce any of the images in my gallery. I feel like my rights have been violated, because the only way for me to know that the law will be enforced in deviantART is if I hunt down anyone who dares to trace works without permission.

I know that the internet is vast, and that it is difficult to do this, but the fact that deviantART has now loosened their policy in the way they did does not make things any better.

Your opinions? Is deviantART right? Wrong? How?

I forgot to add this earlier, so I shall do so now, in case anyone sees fit to mention it. There is such thing as a "Fair Use" law in the copyright laws. DeviantART is using this law to justify their actions. HOWEVER: This law states that while a person can indeed trace/copy/reproduce an image for their own personal use, they are NOT allowed to publish it in a public space as their own work. The exceptions to this are things such as the creative common laws, where the artist GIVES permission (usually with payment) for their work to be used outside of their own gallery.






Sho-Shonojo 02-07-2009 05:49 AM

You know I had been thinking about writing a thread about this. It is just so aggravating.

DeviantArt has no right to give artists permission to post copied works. I've seen the Mods there say again and again that their lawyer said they could do this, and they simply will not listen to anything that the user have to say about it.

I loved the recent poll that questioned where tracing should be placed and if it should only be used for stock photos. It seemed like they were getting somewhere, and then the new issue mentioned nothing of where they were going with this, just that the people who were against tracing were wrong.

I love DeviantArt I really do, but they really have on idea what they are doing. They think they are just going to get away with a warning? Please. I heard a story about a daycare that got sued for painting Disney characters on their wall. Disney would have a field day if they ever decided to go trouncing through DA. Ugh.

I just wish the Mods would listen to how stupid they are being.

MurasakiCrown 02-07-2009 09:37 PM

Not only do they have no right, they are being very snarky about it. It is completely unprofessional, and they have yet to say exactly how this is good for the community when everyone is so angry about this decision. I am very tempted to somehow boycott dA altogether, except that I am at a point where I need their print system (college tuition is awful that way).

I am very tempted to send a letter to the United States Copyright office to ask about the situation while trying to be nice and not mention any names.

I would have been okay with it had the tracing been only from stock photos, but this is just aggravating. Oh, I forgot to add the part about the fair use law. I should edit my post.

Sho-Shonojo 02-08-2009 04:15 PM

They are being completely snarky, basically telling us that we have no idea what we're talking about. Half of the DA community has been to an art college, we've been taught about CopyRight laws and we know this is in no way legal.

I wonder how you would go about reporting something like that. I want them taken down. Everything that does not have permission to be up needs to be taken away!

I hate how most of the community wants tracing cut down but they still won't do something about it for a few deviants who don't know how to be creative like the rest of us.

I'm kinda glad I've never invested in DA, they're just making me too mad.

MurasakiCrown 02-08-2009 05:01 PM

Sadly, I've invested in dA ^^; It's awful knowing I've financially supported a website that can't abide by the law.

xlightwingx 02-08-2009 05:10 PM

That sucks =(
I don't care if tracing is an art, because let's face it, no one wants a (possibly) horribly mauled version of their creation claimed as someone else's. Though I think it's not so much the addition of this policy, (which won't affect the community too much since 99.99% of these tracers are talentless idiots, who won't be noticed) as deviantArt endorsing tracing/'art theft'.

To trace means "to copy by putting a piece of transparent paper over it and following the lines which show through the paper with a pencil", and I really don't see how that helps any artist in any significant way. I mean, any kid can trace. What makes the artist different from any random kid in this case?

Though perhaps I should be glad it's only allowed on deviantArt =/ ?

Sho-Shonojo 02-08-2009 09:10 PM

Well, I can't say much about the learning process of tracing. Years ago when I was little I used to trace Pokemon, but I didn't show them to everyone and claim that the artwork was my own. But DA is endorsing it like it deserves to called a piece of art. That makes me so mad.

Unfortunately the reason why it has become such a big deal on DA is because people are getting attention for it. Members are taking screenshots from popular anime and vector tracing them and then feeding of the pageviews it gets them, like even takes any effort to copy these things. :(

Even if they want to copy art for practice they shouldn't be putting it on the web. It's not their orignal art and it's illegal.

Anna_Crackers 02-08-2009 10:33 PM

Usually, if you tell artists at tracing is looked down upon in the art community and give them a good critique they will come to. When I was younger I did a paint over I was proud of, and once someone pointed out it was bad I never traced again.

Sho-Shonojo 02-08-2009 11:31 PM

Well, the girl tht I'm thinking of on DA deletes every message she gets against her tracing work. She does not listen to reason.

MurasakiCrown 02-09-2009 03:54 AM

Are we talking about someone with a Vampire-related username here? >_>

I actually don't recall tracing anything, which would explain why my early works look as scary as they do. I did, however, copy part of a picture. I was told it was wrong, and never did it again. And of course I removed the image. It was not respectful to the original artist to keep the image in my gallery. They offered to let me keep the image up there, but I just didn't feel right.

What are people going to learn if the largest art community on the net is allowing tracing?

Sho-Shonojo 02-09-2009 04:03 AM

Vampirella, yea, her. >(

When I was little I traced Pokemon, and copied art from the Zelda guidebooks. Then I stated drawing my own stuff and the difference was so obvious. Still, I always knew it was wrong, I would write on the picture that it was copied so that people could tell the difference when they flipped through my sketchbooks.

They're only going to learn how to break the law. They'll think that in order to be a popular artist, you need to copy popular work and sell it. Their all going to grow up and paint illegal copies of painting and sell them on ebay for millions.

xuvrette 02-09-2009 06:51 AM

I think tracing it self is not wrong, it is just one of the ways to learn, yes, agree. (Well, well, in the whole wide world, more than thousands and thousands of people tracing naruto and such and such... the original artists can't be suing all of them. XD)

I am a selfish person, I don't like people copy my things without my consent... same with homework and art. And worse, show it to others in a way that is so vague that the people who look at it thought the person is the one that drew all of it.

I am not so sure about copy right laws, the way the dA stff changing the policy is contradicting with the expectations of mass users. I agree that it is part of the owner's responsible to report any suspicious traced works, BUT since they are the one that loosen the policy, they SHOULD have a kind of system to prevent things like this instead of hoping other users to support them when they are not happy with the decision.

Besides... that sounds like to me... making art theft legal.
I never really like dA though... DX

Volucria 02-16-2009 10:48 AM

I have a Deviantart account. It has no drawings or anything; I only use it to PM artists when I find that someone else has stolen or copied their work. Isn't it sad that that account gets used regularly only for that purpose?

And now dA ALLOWS its users to copy drawings and post them as their own. This is too absurd for words.

MurasakiCrown 02-16-2009 03:37 PM

It is pretty sad that you have to use the account solely for that reason D8;

I think you should still tell the artist, though, because deviantART said that, supposedly, if the artist doesn't want their work traced and then put up, they can tell deviantART staff and they will remove it.

AngelicCat 02-17-2009 05:12 PM

I saw that on Deviantart and I was very very upset. I don't know why they would allow tracing to be considered art.

Everytime I have seen Sailor Moon pictures up there from coloring books and re-drawn to look like their sailor moon oc's I was quite upset and though to myself, where is the originality in that?

I'm sure most of you will agree that when you work on a picture from start to finish it takes like 4 plus hours at least. Then to have someone print that picture out, trace it and change a few things here and there is a BIG insult to me.

I work very hard on my drawings and I don't want anyone to rip them off! Deviantart needs to re-think this decision and fast before it gets way out of control! :stare:

Claudia 02-18-2009 04:52 PM

I'm not crazy about it. I mean why present work that clearly isn't yours...IF it's going to be out there, credit for original artist.

Exrael 04-13-2009 01:29 AM

*sigh* Why would you even post traced work anyways? D:

It only focuses on your inability to improve yourself (just using the pronoun "you" here, not referring to anyone!) and your poor ethics. :\

Claudia 04-13-2009 02:49 AM

Tracing is a good learning tool IHO. Passing it off as your work as your work is another matter.

Metempsychosis 04-29-2009 07:53 PM

I was just discussing this with a very good friend of mine who is a DA artist when I found this thread XD. I am currently extremely overtired and she's just woken up, so its not the best of conversations in the world, but the points are pretty clear. I have her permission to post up the conversation - I'm Spirited, she's Aoi.

Quote:

Spirited: WTF on DA. Tracing is permitted now?!
Aoi: oh yeah
Aoi: I heard about that
Aoi: mainly?
Aoi: I know exactly what it is
Aoi: laziness
Spirited: Yup]
Aoi: think about how many violations they get for tracers and art stealers and copiers daily
Aoi: they have to chase down every single one
Aoi: argue with them
Aoi: blah blah blah
Aoi: this cuts out a major part of their problesm
Spirited: Except it breaks international copyright law and can get them shut down.
Aoi: oh yeah BD;
Spirited: XDD
Aoi: what do yout hink?
Spirited: I think its a very foolish move on their part. Not only is it breaking the law [Erm, bad enough, really] but its encouraging art theft and copying by making it easier for these people to go around and do it. While I will admit tracing can be used as a learning tool, it is not, in any way an 'art form'. You are using another person's work in order to better understand how to draw in a certain style - until you can completely deviate from that artist and draw your own piece, it is copying and it doesnt count.
Aoi: so true
Spirited: Overall its a very ill-advised and disrespectful move on their part.
Aoi: yeah bt
Aoi: the guy in charge is an asshole, isn't he?
Spirited: xD; Well, when you want to just go through the bush rather then around it.....
Spirited: xD; Oh man, I am wicked tired...
Anywoot - mind if I post this convo up on Mene, since they have a nice thread going on about this whole issue? I'll probably give them something more eloquent in eight or so hours once Ive gotten some sleep into me, but I think this makes the perfect ending point xD;;
Aoi: Sure.

FakeSunShine 05-11-2009 05:23 PM

i left the site a while back i found that there getting to be redicilious. But seriouslt there 'letting' people trace artwork? Thats not cool at all they dont have the right to do that its just un acceptable the only one that can say you can trace there work is the person that created the work.

i mean its one thing if your tracing to understand something better but to trace it cause you dont feel like trying to draw it is so stupid.

the only way to stop this is a protest everyone should write a protest and sign it and if it doesnt work ditch the place for a week make them suffer

Sho-Shonojo 05-12-2009 08:40 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but it seems like all the angry discussions about this on DA, I haven't really seen any traced works(at least not on the front page). Were the tracers getting flamed to death you think? I'm pretty sure tracing is still allowed.

Guivre 05-13-2009 12:20 AM

I never liked Deviant Art, and now I feel more justified in my opinion, which, I might add, I am constantly called out on in artist circles because Deviant Art is just so popular. -.-

It probably has more to do with their resources for policing every posting rather than philosophy, but still.

leonaenae 05-22-2009 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna_Crackers (Post 1763933851)
Usually, if you tell artists at tracing is looked down upon in the art community and give them a good critique they will come to. When I was younger I did a paint over I was proud of, and once someone pointed out it was bad I never traced again.

Yea I remember when I was younger maybe 11 I was tracing a horse drawing in one of those How To books. And this guy walked by me and he said wow thats very nice, I was so ashamed to say I was tracing. Ever since then, I never traced.

Citteh 10-13-2009 11:17 PM

I still can't believe this is the case. I honestly can't. This is utterly ridiculous! If this isn't stealing art then what is it?!
For gods sake even NEOPETS recognizes this as art stealing. This is utterly ridiculous!
This really makes me want to leave dA. Honestly it pisses me off to no end. I do NOT want any of my work traced. I work hard on my art and spend many hours practising and I do not want someone to just trace them!


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:57 AM.