a character like that isn't overly nice though. It's a fairy tale and that's the structure of it. nice would be in comparison to other characters.

They are not 'overly' nice? They are so MUCH kinder than my vengeance spirit!
Not just that, once in a while, there is someone in any shows that forgive what I think wrongs that are too big to forgive. Like murder, for example.

Originally Posted by Kat Dakuu

vengeance is pretty one dimensional too, but it's easier to work with than nice characters. That whole always forgiving thing. It makes it very hard to make the story go anywhere. There's nothing to react to.


I feel there are better ways to make sure a character isn't boring though. doing that list could still lead to a boring character.

What tips do you have for anti-boring?

Originally Posted by xuvrette

When I was small, all the story's main character are those super nice and forgiving type... x.x
I can't believe that 'all good people' forgive that easily! The super nice people they are forgiving, yet they can have a quest going on, so I guess story can still goes on. It will be more of a 'To protect the world' thing, rather than finding culprit that kills his family.

Shadamimi~
lol, the example is given. instead of 5 vs 5, is 2 vs 2. Same logic, isn't it? just changes amount.

i didn't have a character in mind, so i just made up a couple of balanced like examples. ^^;; i was being lazy

Originally Posted by dragoness129

Sometimes I create full bios for the characters, while other times I just dive right into the story and create the characters along the way, giving them the basics at first, then creating their background as the story progresses.
Either way, creating the characters and the world itself are both tons of fun!
Each of them seems real to me because I took the time to think up them, no matter how long it took, even just a minute or two to create them, they are still real to me.

lately i've been just diving into characters for my stories, and than going back and rewriting parts after i've figure out the characters and written proper bios for them.

So, my point is...
by your balance is by looking at amount of good and bads?
Not like competing (tidy and disloyal) with (untidy and loyal).

I tend to build the character up only as far as they look, do they have family, what are they, and then i go from there in the story. i just use what i term basics. the rest of the stuff i build up inside the story. I've tried doing all the character bio's and stuff and just can't do it. it confuses me.

Different methods are suitable for different people. The most important thing is that you manage to find the methods that works for your style of work.

hmm never thought of it that way..i kinda.. always thought somethign was wrong with me because i couldn't get in depth like that.

Doing things differently doesn't necessary makes it wrong...
I always think differently than most people, but I seldom regard my view as 'wrong', more to different.

It is interesting to see how people get to achieve their result/target/creation via different methodologies.

Originally Posted by xuvrette

So, my point is...
by your balance is by looking at amount of good and bads?
Not like competing (tidy and disloyal) with (untidy and loyal).

*rubs head* not exactly.
wow this is surprisingly hard to explain.
So take those two examples. A person is very tidy, neat, and organized, but perhaps.. they seem zoned out and are late to places.
Kind of giving them a Con that balances the Pro so that they are not superly uber perfect characters.

Originally Posted by star2000shadow

I tend to build the character up only as far as they look, do they have family, what are they, and then i go from there in the story. i just use what i term basics. the rest of the stuff i build up inside the story. I've tried doing all the character bio's and stuff and just can't do it. it confuses me.

That's a perfectly good way to do it. Especially if that's what works for you! I'm not trying to put anyone down in there ways at all. I'm merely curious what other people do. And maybe even see if its possible to help others who do want to make detailed bios. Or maybe the reverse. have help just winging a character.

Originally Posted by xuvrette

Different methods are suitable for different people. The most important thing is that you manage to find the methods that works for your style of work.

Exactly! thank you Xuvrette, very well put.

Untidy and loyal. Con and Pro.
Disloyal and tidy. also con and pro.

Both have con and pro.
Look at the above two types, even the amount is the same, but the impact is different.

If your meaning is any cons add put in it to make it less perfect... (are we on Mary Sue issue? x.x I forgot...)
example. Smart, friendly, honest, loyal, hardworking, popular but stubborn.
With that one con, can it bring enough imperfectness?

okay this is the final attempt i'm gonna make to explain myself. xD cause i'm running out of words to make what's in my head sound like i want it to. lol...

I'm not looking for a pro con number match. I'm looking for the pros and cons themselves to be things that balance each other out. I make a list of only 5 and 5 thinking of the most...prominent of there good and bad qualities and compare them together to see if they seem balanced.

like that list you gave. I would look at that and go hmmm... stubborn may not be enough. perhaps they need at least one other con to balance it out just a little bit more. perhaps... quick to temper, or something.

I would understand that as, amount do not necessary came out balance at the end. It is the impact that matters.

My question was just a simple, is the amount of 5 good and 5 bad make a good balance by amount. XD
Well, I asked that because you mentioned the amount idea, 5 good and 5 bad.
Sorry to bother, I tend to be very specific/detail in questions for topics I am interested.

Did i answer your question thoroughly than? *points at your first sentence* see that's what i meant but i'm bad with words.

I feel dreadfully behind I see. I just didn't feel like discussion threads. Are ya'll still talking about the strength/weakness balance thing? I don't know if I have anything to say on that, so I'll just go way up the page and answer something.

Originally Posted by Shadami

What tips do you have for anti-boring?

I would say that a good way to keep a character from being boring is to make them unique. Borrow lots of little quirks from yourself and people you know. Habits, ways of speaking, hobbies, and such. Mix and match things together so your character isn't like anyone you actually know even if you borrowed. Just....the more information you have on the character, the less likely they are to be boring.

Dakukuu~ Aww? Are you not in the mood... or?

Quirks! That is one point! Personal/unique characteristic, that do not really pose as a good or bad. Those little things do make a character feel more personal and one of a kind.

Shadamimi~ lol. If you feel that what I posted was what you meant, then I do understand. I think we just had a little 'misinterpreting' of my question.
I don't know why... but I seem to tend to have these kind of misunderstanding when I am asking questions. x.x I feel kinda bad.

naw, I just got busy and well, sometimes I'm more in the mood for chatting than discussing.
Lately, I've been borrowing a lot of my own little quirks and just changing the reasons for them or the degree of the quirkiness before I give them to my characters. I have a whole plethora of quirks.

Originally Posted by Kat Dakuu

I feel dreadfully behind I see. I just didn't feel like discussion threads. Are ya'll still talking about the strength/weakness balance thing? I don't know if I have anything to say on that, so I'll just go way up the page and answer something.



I would say that a good way to keep a character from being boring is to make them unique. Borrow lots of little quirks from yourself and people you know. Habits, ways of speaking, hobbies, and such. Mix and match things together so your character isn't like anyone you actually know even if you borrowed. Just....the more information you have on the character, the less likely they are to be boring.

we were. it was kind of a long. blah blah back and forth. possible confusion on both sides. I think we finally got it straightened out though.

I feel like making a new character using some of the things we've been talking about in here. And see what awesome stuff i could come up with. Maybe put it to a test in here. And see what you guys think . Sound good/fun?

Originally Posted by xuvrette

Dakukuu~ Aww? Are you not in the mood... or?

Quirks! That is one point! Personal/unique characteristic, that do not really pose as a good or bad. Those little things do make a character feel more personal and one of a kind.

Shadamimi~ lol. If you feel that what I posted was what you meant, then I do understand. I think we just had a little 'misinterpreting' of my question.
I don't know why... but I seem to tend to have these kind of misunderstanding when I am asking questions. x.x I feel kinda bad.

Quirks definetly sounds like a fun idea. I just have to figure out the differences of things sometimes. Or actually be able to pick up these things about people. Once i wanted to make a character bio completely using myself. And see what happened. I feel i wouldn't know my faults though or something and i'd be mary sue.

And its perfectly fine. Im' not great at describing or explaining well.. or understanding questions in general sometimes. Slight phrase differences are interprutted funny in my head i suppose?

Terms and phrase do work differently in different region.
Like just last pages, I was confused between logo and emblem with Dakukuu. XD

It's... not that much different i think?

To me, they are similar in function, but logo and emblem can have differences. x.x

In most of my writing, I feel like I'm channeling the story rather than writing it.

So, pretty much, I come up with some of the most minor details about a character and let them characterize themselves the rest of the way. Sometimes I do it the other way around though - I come up with/remember the characters in detail, throw a situation at them, and the story writes itself.

The hardest part is, sometimes I get really attached to one or more and have to remind myself that no, they're not perfect, and if I elevate them to god-like status in my mind it will come out in really ugly ways in my writing - but that's not very difficult for me.

I am also of the belief that putting together lists of traits and balancing the good and the bad may be a good starting point, but it's a terrible oversimplification. For instance, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. One of the characters in a story we're working on is incredibly loyal, which is good - but he's loyal to the point of being kind of gullible if you make a good first impression on him. Another one is really upbeat and nearly impossible to get down - which sometimes makes people think he's not taking the situation at hand seriously, even if he is. Then there's also the fact that when you summarize even the best characters they can sound terrible. Here's an example:

_____ is the sole heir to a large real estate fortune and a charismatic super-genius. One day when he was 8, his parents were killed by a small-time criminal right in front of him. Devastated by this tragic event, he swore to clean up the city of crime and began using his fortune to make him into the most powerful symbol of vigilante justice in the world.

Sounds terrible, right? Well, think about it: I just described Batman. I could have done even better; I could have described Superman...but I don't like him as much as a character, so.

My point is, do not worry about how great or how terrible your characters sound in summary. It's how they work in the context of your story that's important.

... Is that the background story for Batman?
Wow~ Actually, when a person that is super genius and rich, will automatically strike my interest. XD
I have certain favoritism for certain type of characters, genius is one of them.

Originally Posted by Stellar Delusion

In most of my writing, I feel like I'm channeling the story rather than writing it.

So, pretty much, I come up with some of the most minor details about a character and let them characterize themselves the rest of the way. Sometimes I do it the other way around though - I come up with/remember the characters in detail, throw a situation at them, and the story writes itself.

The hardest part is, sometimes I get really attached to one or more and have to remind myself that no, they're not perfect, and if I elevate them to god-like status in my mind it will come out in really ugly ways in my writing - but that's not very difficult for me.

I am also of the belief that putting together lists of traits and balancing the good and the bad may be a good starting point, but it's a terrible oversimplification. For instance, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. One of the characters in a story we're working on is incredibly loyal, which is good - but he's loyal to the point of being kind of gullible if you make a good first impression on him. Another one is really upbeat and nearly impossible to get down - which sometimes makes people think he's not taking the situation at hand seriously, even if he is. Then there's also the fact that when you summarize even the best characters they can sound terrible. Here's an example:

_____ is the sole heir to a large real estate fortune and a charismatic super-genius. One day when he was 8, his parents were killed by a small-time criminal right in front of him. Devastated by this tragic event, he swore to clean up the city of crime and began using his fortune to make him into the most powerful symbol of vigilante justice in the world.

Sounds terrible, right? Well, think about it: I just described Batman. I could have done even better; I could have described Superman...but I don't like him as much as a character, so.

My point is, do not worry about how great or how terrible your characters sound in summary. It's how they work in the context of your story that's important.

This is exactly what I was trying to explain to Xuv! And is what i meant with the pros vs cons. With the balancing and such. Hence some of my comments (if you read them) Oh btw i bolded what i'm talking about. pros balancing cons. not them being so completely unrelated that they could seem like mary sues? i guess

Rather good description in summary of Batman by the way. And i can see what you mean with simple being good, as long as the story works with it.

*just awake*
...
I don't think I quite catch the similarity of that 'bold' with what we had been discussed all along. Doesn't sound the same at all.

Shadamimi's one is balancing pro and con.
Stellarlar's one sounds to me is redefining pro and con or extrem-ism.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to point out - taking a positive to an extreme can become a negative at times. It is entirely possible for a trait to balance itself as a strength and a weakness.

Another thing I'm trying to say is that a lot of times, people get way too tripped up trying to make a balanced list of traits and their supposed-to-be-human characters end up seeming kinda...robotic.

The way I see it, there are no inherently good or bad characters - there are ones that are written well, and ones that are written poorly. Even the most terribly unbalanced character can be written well (see: Superman and Harry Potter) and even the plainest everyman character can be written horribly. The problem occurs when a writer, in their own mind, elevates their favorite character to god-like status - or writes evil as good or vice versa (see Twilight for an example of both). So yeah, uh...don't do that.