This is a topic that has bothering me all day. I work in a comic book shop and occasionally the topic of anime comes up. I was talking to my boss and suddenly she says to be "Did you know earnings on Anime have dropped by 50%?" Surprised by such extreme percent I ask to see the article.

I skim through the article and I must admit I felt guilty. Illegal downloading of anime and even manga is not only hurting the American industry but also the Japanese. For when you download something you are taking away from the creators of that anime. But it has gotten so bad that the pain is really being felt in both Japan and Europe.

Also I happened to have a discussion with a friend before I even heard of this article. Did you know Japan has to approve of all translations, voice actors and just about everything. So it really isn't the translators fault in the end.

Basically what I'm saying is I'm starting to rethink my ways. While I buy manga on a regular basis I've decided to buy on title that until now i only downloaded. And while I was going to pass on some box sets... I'm going to buy them now. I love Anime and I would hate to see it disappear because I was being selfish.

So what do you think of this? And how do you think this problem could be solved.

Its very distressing seeing as there are alot of anime fans out there. i have bought my fair share of anime even though i know i could watch it online. I did hear that one of the manufactuars of anime to the states is closing its doors on anime. this may be the reason why.

Most likely so. Not only is this going to mean many Anime companies are going to start closing doors but it could also mean for more serious action could be taken. Thus far it would seem they are not strict on sites where things are posted for downloading. I mean there is narutofan where they make money off of it!

I would not be surprised that in time we not only start seeing less Anime but people will start getting sued. Music companies cracked down and Anime might be next.

Originally Posted by coriander

I would not be surprised that in time we not only start seeing less Anime but people will start getting sued. Music companies cracked down and Anime might be next.

Apparently, the people that scanlated Death Note were sued already, and I wouldn't be surprised if the fansubbers of the anime were too. So, Anime is pretty much already doing it.

I was afraid of this :( silly people i wish they wouldent do this!

I find that this has always been an issue. It came up before with music,and now anime. Anime profits are dwindling because more and more people are finding downloaded sites, and people who like anime are decreasing as the original people who grew up with anime get older, and grow out.

Originally Posted by d2hiriyuu

I find that this has always been an issue. It came up before with music,and now anime. Anime profits are dwindling because more and more people are finding downloaded sites, and people who like anime are decreasing as the original people who grew up with anime get older, and grow out.

Im guessing Music went down the pan to? though that is still going on, how long ago did music start to slip?

God i cant belive people can be so stupid -_- they even give me weird looks/ argue and try to convince me to d it to O-O;;; saddos >>;; i used to at first think its their choice.

But that slowly grew when i got pissed at thoses who complained at the slowness of the subbing and then a Visual Novel Company went out of business to because of this situation.

Now i hate them all, i already hate stupid people as it is and to think they ARGUE with me about it to f***s me off even more.

I wonder when anime will go out completely... i hope its not just yet... and/or i could always wish longer that it will last till i die (dought it.. i wouldent want to wish myself away anyway.. heh... looks like christmassys will be boring again for me not knowing what to get and the works... birthdays to and be like thoses boring people who dont like it.)

*edit* they grow out of it? why thats silly... anime is a thing for life not lust >.<;;; why cant people just treat it like general like they do with films, i know its their chocie and everything but if you ask me a true fan aint a true fan if they go off it, it goes to show they only liked it because it was some fase or something.

Anime will never actually *die*. It will just go through a depression until copy right laws are enforced a lot more and stuff. I have downloaded anime in the past, but it's Anime i end up buying. Like Nana and Eureka Seven. I have seen them from downloads, and am now just waiting to pick them up here in the states. (i'm actually planning on buying a region free DVD player so i don't have to wait any more ((this is assuming the Jap DVD's have English subs on it)) ). So i don't feel as guilty, being as between my boyfriend and i, we have about 20k worth of manga and anime. And we normally spend around $400 per con on anime and merchandise XD

This has been happening for a while now and it's evident in things like Geneon closing its US company base, Newtype US ending and the financial problems that ADV has been having. It doesn't bode well but at the same time I don't think it will actually ever go away completely. For every company that is struggling, there are others that are increasing. Like stated before, it's like the music industry now. Profits have been going down as pirating and downloading has increased. But the music industry hasn't disappeared.

They're tightening up the laws and once that's all worked out, then I think it'll stabilize itself again.

it has happened since the anime boom went away because of the fad that happened. Also watching as the people I knew who liked anime are now in college with no money.

*mild guilt trip* I've watched fan subbed stuff just to see if it's one that if it comes to the US, would I buy it. I tend to burrow a lot of manga from my friends due to I either don't have the manga, but wanted to read the first to see if I wanted to get my own copy, or if it's a series that spans well over my budget, burrow from someone who already bought them. A lot of them are the highly romance blended titles.

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

(i'm actually planning on buying a region free DVD player so i don't have to wait any more ((this is assuming the Jap DVD's have English subs on it)) ).XD

Apparently, special editions often have English subs, however, they're pricey. However, if you happen to be interested in Korean animation, those always have English subs.

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

Anime will never actually *die*. It will just go through a depression until copy right laws are enforced a lot more and stuff. I have downloaded anime in the past, but it's Anime i end up buying. Like Nana and Eureka Seven. I have seen them from downloads, and am now just waiting to pick them up here in the states. (i'm actually planning on buying a region free DVD player so i don't have to wait any more ((this is assuming the Jap DVD's have English subs on it)) ). So i don't feel as guilty, being as between my boyfriend and i, we have about 20k worth of manga and anime. And we normally spend around $400 per con on anime and merchandise XD

I am that way, seems like I will be spending about 200 this month alone on it, and it will be much worse at con. I also own my fair share at somewhere near 5k in manga theoretically and over 1k in anime probably more like 2k. Also my figs are insane too, so I don't feel weird when people yell at me for stuff. Yes I do cause misery a bit to the companies, but I normally buy the series when it comes out in english if it is good. I wasn't even thinking about buying certain series till after I saw it subbed, so then I bought it once it came out. I actually spend more because of subbing.

I know most don't though, at the amount invested, I do own an anime room, that has only anime related things in it, and feel that is insane to others. One also has to understand I have been collecting for some where near 7-10 years, so i have had time to watch the anime population grow in the U.S.

Kudos too for also owning anime in 1000 of dollars.

I don't feel guilty about my illegal anime. I think the anime industry creates it's own trouble, in a way. Though the audence in the west is growing, it is still limited and they license some very bizarre things. I mean, I love Pani Poni Dash, but I can't believe it was licensed. I think sometimes the industry makes bad decisions becasue it isn't in touch with what people are watching then it blames fansubs.

I will buy an anime if I love it. I have limited funds so I can't buy any old anime and my capacity to watch is far higher then it is to buy. I wouldn't consider buying an anime I haven't already seen on fansub for at least a few eppisodes. Even then I would be reluctant as, in all honestly, the fansub releases can be better then the official releases. They also take up less storage space (a big issue for me).

I am different with manga. I think it's much more affordable and I prefer to actually hold it in my hands to read. For longer series which I can't afford I won't buy the official release but maybe only pick up a few volumes of something I really like. However, I'm more willing to try something I've not seem any of before in manga form then in anime.

As I look at it, these shows are being made available on Japanese TV at no cost to the end user, I am exploiting that. If I do enjoy it and it is licensed I will buy the DVDs, but I can't afford to buy unless I know what I'm getting.

Originally Posted by Yarrian

I am different with manga. I think it's much more affordable and I prefer to actually hold it in my hands to read. For longer series which I can't afford I won't buy the official release but maybe only pick up a few volumes of something I really like. However, I'm more willing to try something I've not seem any of before in manga form then in anime.

As I look at it, these shows are being made available on Japanese TV at no cost to the end user, I am exploiting that. If I do enjoy it and it is licensed I will buy the DVDs, but I can't afford to buy unless I know what I'm getting.

I agree with you completely. It seems odd but I know that through it all ,I still contribute a fair share. Also the manga levels have been lacking in my books on quality series that were coming out till recently. There was almost a full year where I have not liked what was coming out new. This changed this month with blood+ .hack//GU+, fate stay night, whenever that gets released, and code gaess whenever it does. They are all now licensed manga and so at some point will be released, but for one full year both viz and tokyopop failed me at getting new good anime series.

anime though, I feel is similar, it goes in waves, I like the older stuff, but am watching as some of the new stuff isn't all that good, like sure I liked Full Metal Alchemist, but I would never buy all the volumes to the anime to have it all. And so the later half of it's release, when that was all they were focusing on, I went to best buy and could actually walk out knowing that there was nothing good.

Also because I download, I understand when something is licensed and such, so I try and keep track of the series i love so that when they are released, I do actually go buy the series instead of waiting like many people do.

Originally Posted by Yarrian

As I look at it, these shows are being made available on Japanese TV at no cost to the end user, I am exploiting that. If I do enjoy it and it is licensed I will buy the DVDs, but I can't afford to buy unless I know what I'm getting.

Actually, no they're not. TV in Japan is paid by taxes. So, the Japanese audience has to pay an extra tax to watch anime on their TVs.

yes, and as such though I feel I should give back to japanese community, but it is a case of can not pay for japanese anime in the U.S. to watch on TV. So I buy figurines and such that are from japan when I can.

Originally Posted by Rmarques

Apparently, special editions often have English subs, however, they're pricey. However, if you happen to be interested in Korean animation, those always have English subs.

I watch most any anime, so long as it has decent art and a good story :D. My boyfriend is fluent in Japanese, so it wouldn't be so much an issue for him v.v

@Yarrain: Yes, the Japanese market has a few issues, but it's not their fault that the really really good stuff doesn't get licenced here. In order for it to get licenced here, companies like FUNimation and ADV have to buy it from them to distribute. Either way, what you are doing is theivery, which makes it more difficult for these companies to ever actually get the good series. I can't make you feel guilty, but downloading illegal anime is a decent chunk as to why the industry is in a funk. And so long as there are people like you who withhold money from the industry and harm their ability to further their company, the longer they will be in a depression.

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

@Yarrain: Yes, the Japanese market has a few issues, but it's not their fault that the really really good stuff doesn't get licenced here. In order for it to get licenced here, companies like FUNimation and ADV have to buy it from them to distribute. Either way, what you are doing is theivery, which makes it more difficult for these companies to ever actually get the good series. I can't make you feel guilty, but downloading illegal anime is a decent chunk as to why the industry is in a funk. And so long as there are people like you who withhold money from the industry and harm their ability to further their company, the longer they will be in a depression.[/color][/size][/b]

I acnowledge I am stealing. However, my anime choice is odd and obscure. I like slice-of-life anime and magical girl. I acnowledge most of the shows I want will never get licensed, some of them don't even get fansubbed. However, you seem to have totally reversed the point of my post. I would like them to license less. I think at least a portion of the market is under the impression that they can licenses any old thing and it'll sell, which is the fault of the liensing companies. I mean, again, they icensed Pani Poni Dash. I know a lot of anime fans, and of them I know two others who enjoy that series. I can't understand why it was licensed at all.

Also, you are under the impression I'm withholding money. I actually spend all my money on anime, more or less. The problem is, I am a student and I live on a shoestring budget. I could not spend more money on anime, I would not be able to eat. That's why fansubs are so important to me. I don't have money to waste trying out a series. If it wasn't for fansubs I would never have learned enough about anime to even start buying, as it's hardly a cheap hobby to get into. All the money I have I spend on anime. Pani Poni Dash, I own all of in boxset form. I buy the Bleach DVDS. I have recently got into Naruto and am saving to buy the DVDs since I've seen enough to know I'll like it and it'll be worth my money, and they are available.

I buy when I have money and when I know something is worth the money. If I didn't download the only upshoot would be that I would buy less as I wouldn't know what was worth buying, miss out on the series that are great but never get licensed (and some that do) and drop out with my friends who are up to date with the latest releases, pushing me further out of the fandom and making me, again, less likely to buy new DVDs. So, actually, I'd probably spend less on anime without fansubs.

Anime companies will die however anime will never die. (the demand for more is increasing.) However the amount of money many of us are willing to spend on it is very small. I really see no shocker that people are being sued for uploading manga/anime scanaltaions. It's pretty much the punishment for many otakus/fans for not buying them. There goes my chance of getting some of my series realeased over to here. (if Geneon leaves, I will surely lose all hope in Anime.)

You people are kind of full of crap. I mean, I've downloaded tons of manga scanlations.

You know how many have been picked up and dubbed/translated?

One. Fullmetal Alchemist. Yep. I read that 5 years ago. And you know what? It didn't stop the people in the U.S from being able to get it at their Barnes and Noble. Because very few people really download manga. I know I saw the download figures for that site, and they weren't high.

Also, as Yarrain said, some of them have almost no mass-market appeal in the U.S and would never come over here from Japan. Some of the more obscure shounen-ai, for instance. As well as ones that are heavy on Japanese in-jokes and stuff that would have to be censored out.

And as for illegal downloading, nope. Almost all the kids I know that download illegal music go to iTunes or whatever. Which costs.

Also, out of every 30 kids here, only one is an anime fan. (it may be even less than that). Not all of them even have COMPUTERS. Yeah. Let alone ones new enough to download anime.

I've never had the option of downloading anime or watching it one YouTube. I'm on dial-up, on a Win95 with a 4gb hardrive. Yeah.

Manga volumes usually cost $10.00, unless they are REALLY popular like Naruto, which is at Wal*mart for $5.95 (w00t for affordability). They usually sell in Japan for about 300 yen. Somebody can do the math, I don't remember how much that is.

But my main point is: Don't fansub/scanlate some of the manga/anime, and people in the U.S will never set eyes on it. We'll be missing out big.

look everyone. I have my fair share in both legal and illegal stuff. There is plenty I have spent in both, and yes manga may or may not come out and such, it is how it has always bee, I download, if I like the series and it gets licensed I buy it. it isn't a case of I am for one or the other completely, it is a huge effect of the supplies and demand of most otakus is far beyond what the U.S. can hold, yet at the same time, if someone owns nothing and calls themselves an otaku, and it is all only illegal stuff, is anime worth anything to you, or just cause it is free do you get it? An otaku is willing to pay the money too, just the supply and demand is not as fast as we all would like.

Also at Sweet Lemon Effect, your first line is way off for jumping into this discussion, we have our fair share in opinion, and I do not think it was appropriate nor called for to say that as your opening. I understand your argument, and I know what you are talking about, yet your words are not something that should be that aggressive I find.

Yes I wish certain series came out more often, but there are series, like Clannad that I find might come out at some point, but in the mean time might not. Also what are you reading that has zero market value in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by d2hiriyuu

Yes I wish certain series came out more often, but there are series, like Clannad that I find might come out at some point, but in the mean time might not.

Clannad will be licensed. It's got a big enough fan following that it would be in their favour to license it, people will go out and buy it. I know Clanad is on my "If it gets licensed, buy it" list.

I just think anime companies need to be more intelligent and mindful of the people they're marketting to. The Haruhi publicity campaign was done really well. It's a different and odd kind of marketing, because we already know the shows, but they need to convince us to buy them and get excited about them all over again. They don't need to build a fan-base, they need to tap into the existing fan-base, and more often then not the fan base is a little hostile and resistant to them becasue they're worried about what they're going to do with the anime (how accurate the subs are going to be, what they're going to do with the cultural notes etc.)

But I'm rambling now :)

Originally Posted by d2hiriyuu

Also at Sweet Lemon Effect, your first line is way off for jumping into this discussion, we have our fair share in opinion, and I do not think it was appropriate nor called for to say that as your opening. I understand your argument, and I know what you are talking about, yet your words are not something that should be that aggressive I find.

Also what are you reading that has zero market value in the U.S.?

We have our fair share of opinion? But it's okay for one of us to accuse the other of THIEVERY? Which I realize is related to the topic, but it is still an extremely rude and uninformed accusation.

What am I reading that has no market value here? Well, I have read tons of stuff. But actually, I'm not reading any manga at all, except Vampire Doll, which I read at Barnes & Noble for free (is that stealing, or theivery as well?). I've also read Pretear, Diablo, After School Nightmare, and Inuyasha the same way. No downloading required.

But the point is, some of the stuff up for download wasn't even popular in Japan. Some of it's not even good. I honestly can't remember hardly any of the titles, but I know they haven't came out in the U.S. And if they haven't been licensed after being completed for almost a decade, I seriously doubt they will become that way.

Or they will so seriously out of date that no can enjoy them.

Anyway, most of the anime produced here isn't even for selling the DVDs. Merchandise sales are huge. Toy companies make tons off of Pokemon figurines, Yugioh bedsheets, Naruto headbands...and the Japanese creators make money off of them as well.

I spend a lot on anime and manga, as well as video games, but I haven't had a job so I think the anime industry felt that blow as well. I love having actual copies as well...but sometimes I can't. :( I have to read some that aren't released here in English; Spiral was like that, but now that it's been licensed, I have the copies in English. In fact, I love Spiral so much, I have the first and second volume that I got as soon as I saw them on the shelves. As often as I go to the bookstore...that's pretty much as soon as they're released.

I admit, I'm only joking that I'm a significant percentage of that 50%, but yeah...once I get a job I'll probably spend about $500 in one month to account for all this time without a job and therefore having less manga and anime.

I don't agree with downloading, but I know people do it. I don't want to get stressed about it. I am not innocent either. I get desperate. But I just plan to make up for it later on with buying it. I have used downloading to check something out...only to end up buying all volumes of it released. I've also done that and found out something was awful, and then there are titles not found here. I don't have a region free or Japanese DVD player, either. ;-; Nor do I know Japanese. Yes, I could go without, but how many people say, "Oh pretty art! I want to see this anime/read this manga...oh, nevermind. Can't. Bye bye!"

That's what I was facing with Spiral. The anime was released, and left me with questions, and it was hanging over the fan's heads that we'd NEVER get to read the manga because no one would TOUCH it.

Which is why I love Yen Press. :'D