No. Just no.

12 year old girls are not equipped to carry a child to term. Pregnancy has extremely detrimental effects on girls who have not finished puberty. Notwithstanding that we've already discussed why adoption is a horrible alternative, especially if abortion is taken away.

I suggest you educate yourself on the topic of maternal death, because it has nothing to do with "boo hoo I'm uncomfortable!" You insult every mother who has died during child birth.


This calls for an English lesson.

Murder: "unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being."

1) If abortion is legal, then it is not unlawful, and therefore not murder.

2) Ending a life does not count as murder unless it is human life.

3) The primary debate is not when life begins, but when the fetus is considered a "human being" as opposed to a clump of cells. Which isn't at conception.

I think you need to educate yourself on this topic, and then come back and try again.

You remind me of a friend I once had, who tried to tell me that partial-birth abortions were basically, "Well you start to give birth to the child and then when the head is out you hit it with a hammer." He believed that because his mother told him. He was upset when he found out he was wrong, and not at his mother, but at me.

Considering that those diseases are ones you can live through, personally I'd say no because that's no different than women who abort based on the sex of the child. However, there's no feasible way to legislate it.

I'm very happy that you've been resilient in your struggle. This is a prime example of the above, but still, you can't legislate decisions like that.

This would likely be targeted to women who want in vitro I assume, but those women typically don't want someone else's child, they want one that looks like them and is made up of their own genes. It's not a bad idea, but I don't think anyone would actually participate in this way.

I think that a fetus is alive, and that abortion is killing it, but I don't think it's murder. It's only ever been inside the womb, never experienced anything. I think what makes a person a person is they're experiences/thoughts. It's kinda hard to explain but I think that when you die, the universe ends because you're not experiencing it anymore. Sure other people are still alive, and to them the world still exists but to you it doesn't. So when fetus dies, the universe ends for it, but its never seen the universe so death is only a small, small event. The mothers life and happiness are more important then a fetus that doesn't even know what life and happiness are.

I don't know if that made any sense....It's waaaaay too early for me.

So I guess I'm pro-choice because I have weird morals and think that yes, a fetus is alive, yes it is human, yes it will be a person, but I still think that women are more important. By far.

Sure the kid (pardon the use of the word) might become a person, but the future is not real. Only what is happening right now is real. killing a fetus is not killing the person it would have become, because that person DOESN'T EXIST. Its like saying don't eat the food on your plate because once you throw it out it will become a home for larva and if you eat that food those bugs will DIE! .....no.

Yeah, so that was a little weird, but this was asking for peoples views and opinions, not evidence about what is biologically human of not. So there ya go, those are my messed up thoughts.

Bones, I think I understand what you're saying, but I'm gonna think about it for a bit first. You're argument is a little muddled to me, but I'm having trouble focusing on things today :sweat:

I am completely against abortion. A fetus gets a heart beat four days after a woman's missed period. Anything with a heart beat, in my opinion, is life and that would be concidered as murder.

In my religion and my belief, abortion should only happen if the mother's life is at risk.

Now for the person who said that it should be exceptable if the girl was 12, I say that girl needs better parents to teach her not spread her legs open.

With the money that they spend on abortion, could be spent on orphanages. I know there are lots of people who aren't able to have babies would like to adopt them. Jon and Kate could have done that instead of having that implantation thing that makes you have multiples. Then we wouldn't have to be annoyed with their drama.

Ovulation occurs at different times for different women, so I'm not sure that's entirely true (maybe a good guess, but certainly not applicable to everyone).

But again, life =/= a person (a tumor is "alive" and not considered a person), and you must be killing a person for it to be considered murder (or else you'd be convicted for murder for swatting a fly, killing a mosquito, using ant traps, etc...)

Hello, RAPE?

Personally, I have NEVER heard of anyone (aside from internet rumors) voluntarily having sex before age 13. I'm not saying it never happens, I'm just saying that it's not something that you should expect out of a 12-year-old, and at that age, pregnancy is much more likely to be a result of rape instead of consensual sex.

Edit:
via ReCAPP

6%, and the statistic doesn't indicate whether or not the sex was consensual, or whether that proportion was primarily made up of boys or girls. I'm still looking for more details, but my intuition tells me that most of it is made up of boys, and most of the girls were not consenting.

So, the statistic is higher than I initially thought, but still not that high, and not clear on gender or consensuality. I will keep looking for data.

Second edit: This report, hosted by the CDC, indicates a "rape rate" of 7.8% of all teens. Still haven't found specific data that I'm looking for, but I think it's a good resource for everyone discussing the issue of teen sex.

Third edit! (omg on a roll): According to a presentation at U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Conference on the Sexual Exploitation of Teens (via the Library of Congress),
My point stands. At 13 and younger, pregnancy is more likely to be a result of rape, since 65% of sexual activity in people under 13 is a result of rape.

A measly 2% of teens have consensual sex before the age of 13.

7.8% of teens have been raped.

4% of them have been raped before they turn 14. That's over half of all incidences of teen rape. That is an astonishing figure (I'm even surprised that the proportion is so high). This is why we should definitely not take the abortion option away from teens.

That's not true in any way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_d...al_heart_rates

A quote from the site: "The human embryonic heart begins beating approximately 21 days after conception, or five weeks after the last normal menstrual period (LMP), which is the date normally used to date pregnancy."

Also, that's a completely inane way to determine whether or not something counts as living. Bacteria don't even have hearts, but they're certainly alive. Same with tumors. No one's saying that fetuses aren't alive. The issue is whether or not they're people (which by my definition of "personhood", they aren't) and whether or not a person has a right to use another person's body without that person's consent, which they don't.

Why do you ignore the struggles of pregnancy when deciding who "owns the fetus"? The man ejaculated. Great. I'm so glad he can cum. However, it is the WOMAN who risks losing her education, her job. It is the WOMAN who will have to pay the thousands of dollars for the pregnancy. It is the WOMAN whose body will be changed for the rest of her life.

Let's say that a woman has sex with a pro-life man. She becomes pregnant. She wants abortion, the man says no.
If she says "I want an abortion", then why should HE be able to control what happens to HER body? Because he can orgasm?!

Do you have no respect for anyone's rights but the fetus?!
Do you not understand how resonate that is of how women were treated since the dawn of time, something we JUST broke out of? Do you have no respect any women's rights, anywhere at all?

And if you say you do, how can you say that then turn around and say that you think a man should be able to CONTROL a woman because he had sex with her?!

Do you eat meat?
Do you think eating meat should be illegal?
Have you even had a rodent killed that lived in your house, a bug, or a family pet put down?
Was that murder?

Do you understand how much a pregnancy costs? An abortion costs a couple hundred dollars at most. A pregnancy will end up costing thousands of dollars. Thousands. And, that is without complications. Do you plan on paying for these women's cost of pregnancy?

All I have to say is that when Abortion was illegal more women died due to complications of at home abortions than those who lives where saved.

Now, personally I do not believe in abortion...unless the life of the mother/child is in danger. And I Hope I do not have to face anything like that. I know a woman who had a abortion at 25 weeks because the baby had a disorder where the top of the scalp was missing and the baby was going to die anyways.

ichigo8504: the heart beats for the first time at 5 weeks of gestation.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_does_...rt_in_the_womb
( the heart develops at 18 days)

There are many reasons for women to need abortions and, of course, the first is complications/disorder. Next is rape. And the third is for those people who got pregnant but cannot take care of the baby.

Should we let her give birth only to have a baby suffer a terrible life?

Don't forget how many children are abandoned every day.

I think my next child I will adopt. My health probably wont allow me to get pregnant again.

I have absolutely no problem with it. Becoming pregnant is possible even with use of contraceptives, and of course there is the whole subject of sexual assault. Sometimes a woman gets pregnant, and her and her partner aren't ready. I don't think it's a horrible act of cruelty, sometimes people just can't handle a baby in that point in time.

That's the exact reason why it was legalized in the first place :)

I've had an abortion before. I've never wanted to be put into a situation that I had to take one. If I didn't go through with it, I would've kept the baby and it'd be one years old today. I would've been financially and emotionally devastated because at 22 years old, I'm too young to be a mother, and I wouldn't have been able to finish college or get a career.

In some cases, an abortion is considered neccessary. I have this belief that I'm not "killing" the baby, I'm simply just saying, "not now, come back later when I'm ready to take care of you". Not only did I had an abortion because I couldn't support the baby, but I had it because I was afraid for my life.

Three weeks into the pregnancy I was getting very sick, and my body refused to allow food or water in it. A week later, I was literally starving to death, my body was so weak because of no food or water (anything that came in my mouth, I threw up), my fiance was worried because even a trip to the living room from the bedroom caused me to black out for awhile. My mother paid for my abortion which was pretty cheap ($400), and at 5 weeks and 6 days, I went in.

The nurses tested me for anemia and said I came in too early, but they did it anyways. The whole process was 10 minutes and painless, but because of anesthesia -- I was out cold for 2 hours. I woke up, went home with my complimentary pack of birth control and cried happily because I ate my first meal in weeks and didn't throw up. It was the longest meal in my life, and I loved it.

Did I regret having it? No. It did give my closure to the rest of my family members, for instance, I had no idea that my mother had abortions, or my grandmother, my aunts, etc. They knew how I was feeling, and they were supportive. The only one not supportive was my brother, he wanted me to give it up for adoption knowing that it'd break my heart.

I'd have to say that I'm pro-choice. All women should have the option for an abortion, after all it's their bodies and their babies. Men should have NO say in it. Who knows what would've happened if I went through with it =P Probably starve to death or be hospitalized lol

@Gary, I know what you mean. But I usually meant guys that force women to make their decisions when they are not in a life-threatening condition.

Lol. You're the type of person that loves getting the last words in ^_~

I got pregnant at 21 with my first, the sickness part is not fun at all. With my second I was sick the ENTIRE pregnancy, I literally threw up everything I ate and drank. (I kept both and survived) You probably wouldn't of starved to death...morning sickness from minor to severe is common in most pregnancies. Not to say that something worse was going on with you. There has been cases of extreme nausea that put the mother's life in danger. But, I will give you a fair warning, any future pregnancy you CHOOSE to have, let me give you a fair warning you have a better chance of having the SAME symptoms.

It's good that your family was supportive in your choice. Today, there are some families who would of kicked you to the curb if you killed the baby if you know what I mean. =D you have a good family.

Thank you Lady.

Well since then I have finished college and my fiance is on the process of completing his college degree as well. Both of us are planning to get a career as soon as possible, we have a house that we've been keeping an eye on. I cannot wait until the next time I'm pregnant, I'm ready!

There's a saying in my family, that if you have morning sickness early on and it's brutal...then it's a boy. We believe in that saying alot because for several generations, it was always the boys that gave the expectant mother a hard time XD

I understand why you'd have that opinion after such a terrible and unnecessary situation, but I respectfully disagree.

If a woman flat-out refuses to have an abortion, even to save her own life, I can't imagine the psychological damage that forcing the surgery on her would inflict. It's hard for me to imagine a greater betrayal. If I were in that situation, I think I would become suicidal.

In any case, I support the right of individuals to refuse their own medical treatment. Bodily autonomy, and all that.