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-   -   Do you think this is a good idea? (https://www.menewsha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112172)

Reith 02-25-2009 08:40 PM

Do you think this is a good idea?
 
I tried talking to friends but they already know me so I need a random stranger's criticism to help me. The idea is about a guy who is cursed with the full blood moon curse by a wizard and he turns into a sort of werewolf vampire mix. He is not either of those but he is a lot like them. I need to know what people think about that idea and maybe smooth out the edges.

Furious 02-25-2009 08:55 PM

Well, I think it could turn out pretty well, if done right. Why was he cursed? Did the wizard have a valid reason for cursing him, or was it just on a whim? You need plenty of backstory, and details.

You might also want to stick with normal vampires for your story, and not stray too far from Vampire canon. It normally doesn't go well if you try and change it up a bit. Same for werewolves.

Overall, if it's written well and done properly, it could turn out good. I'll be honest, I don't see it turning out *amazingly*, but good, yes.

Merrow 02-25-2009 09:07 PM

I'm with the person above, but I would like to say if you're going to do a "werewolf-vampire mix" why don't you just make up a different creature or find a sort of myth that would work for these details?

I'm not going to derail you from this idea just because werewolves and vampires are a popular trend of the moment, but honestly try to think about what you're doing before unnecessarily fucking around with legends to suit your needs. When worse comes to worse, you can always just make up a creature. hell, you don't even have to give the creature a proper name... you can just refer to it as a 'beast'.

For some reason, the moment I heard the words 'curse' and 'vampire-werewolf mix', i instantly thought of an underused and fabulous beast you can take a crack at... the wendigo.

Furious 02-25-2009 09:14 PM

I agree with Merrow. Making up a creature to fit your needs would be a great break from the norm, and would probably be better received than a Vampire-Werewolf hybrid. I also agree with using a Wendigo.

Albeit the only experience I've had of a Wendigo is watching that one Charmed episode, it was pretty darn cool, and not to mention freaky. I can see a wizard turning someone into a Wendigo more than I can see it turning someone into a Werepire.

Merrow 02-25-2009 09:20 PM

I've had two experiences with Wendigo stories... one of them was from one of the Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark books, the other was actually in the book Pet Sematary by Stephan King.

Both of them were pretty interesting and scary. :3

EpoxyObsession 02-25-2009 09:40 PM

I think you should run the basics of your story through this test: http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

Question #21 (about cross-breed characters) seems particularly relevant.

Merrow 02-25-2009 09:45 PM

Let's get this straight right off the bat: Don't let a stupid quiz be the end-all of everything you want to do.

You could very well answer yes to most of those questions and still write a legit story with good, well-developed characters. Half of the time these questionnaires are simply deterrents for things that are popular or things that inexperienced writers have a harder time pulling off... not actually things you should avoid at all costs.

You can take that test, and if it helps you to make a better character that's fine and dandy. But don't let it be your judgment call if you really don't see a problem with your character. After all, some of the most well-loved characters of all time have technically been Mary or Gary Sues.

Just like the link itself states...

Quote:

Please, please, please remember that these are the symptoms, not the disease. I am not implying that each of these traits is inheirently bad and should be avoided at all costs. Think of them as being like salt or spices - they serve to enhance the dish when used in the right amounts, but when used too liberally, the result tends to be quite unappetizing.

While it is true that some writers are skilled enough to pull off characters that fall into the 'Sue category, do not assume that you are one of them. I've seen plenty of Sue-authors fall into this trap. Instead, go out and get feedback from people more experienced in reading/writing, preferably adults. Not teenagers. Adults.

Furthermore, this test has never been nor will be perfect. At best, I can only offer it as a guide, not an instruction manual.

WTFranki 02-25-2009 09:57 PM

The Vampire Werewolf thing has already been done.
Do something original.

Reith 02-25-2009 10:22 PM

I knew i had to emphasize completely that he is not a werewolf or vampire or the offspring of either or in anyway the creatures themselves. The best discription is a werewolf/vampire mix. The curse causes him to become a creature who needs to feast on living(or recently living)flesh(losing control in the process) and the full moon is the only thing that could relate to a werewolf. The curse only turns him into the "Blood Beast" on full moons because the curse was originally in a book written by werewolves. Wizard reads book, gets idea and guy gets cursed. I chose to make him a man because I don't know what it is like to be a girl(seeing how I am a guy) and because there is already a female protagonist. His past is...gruesome. Also to expand on his past he is a combination of the 4 races and their elements:elves-water, dwarves-earth, fairies-air, humans-fire. The wizard's curse was to stop him from completing the prophesy about the child of 4(all races except elementless orcs). Plus the wizard seeks revenge on all beings for their cruelty and ends up being the cruelest of all. I hope that is enough to get the spotlight off of werewolf/vampire thing and more on the whole thing. Oh and wikipedia helped with my wendigo ignorance but that wasn't quite what I had in mind thanks anyway.

EpoxyObsession 02-25-2009 10:36 PM

Sure, you shouldn't let the test determine everything you write or don't write. But if he wants some guidance from a non-biased source on whether or not he has a good character/story idea, that test can be pretty helpful.

I'll be honest and say my immediate reaction to some kind of hyper-complicated vampire/werewolf-but-not-really-vampire-or-werewolf-offspring character immediately triggers doubts for me about whether or not this is a good starting place for a story. You have to be a pretty damn good writer to pull that sort of thing off without sounding kind of absurd.

But, of course it is possible that the writing and plot are strong enough to support the use of that kind of character. That's part of the reason I linked to the quiz - if the other parts of the story aren't stereotypical, he'll get a low Mary Sue score despite the hybrid character. But if the rest of the story is stuff that's already been done a lot...well, maybe he should think about making some changes to it.

(Edit: The further description of the character kind of supports my concerns. While inventing a new creature that feeds on flesh at the full moon could be a really cool idea, descriptions like this: "a combination of the 4 races and their elements:elves-water, dwarves-earth, fairies-air, humans-fire" make me pretty skeptical. Your character should be interesting enough and cogent enough on his own that he doesn't need a zillion different backgrounds to explain his behavior.)

Merrow 02-25-2009 10:54 PM

:3 Thanks for taking the time to reply, Epoxy. It wasn't so much a jab at you or anything so much as I wanted to make sure the OP understood that just because the test says something doesn't mean you should scrap the idea completely.

Actually, the test CAN be useful if you're using as a gauge to see how ridiculous or extravagant an idea is... it's just that a lot of the time, I see these tests being abused as the ultimate authority on Sue-ness without a second thought. I don't think a theme or character idea should ever be avoided for the sole reason of avoiding a cliche or something popular... so long as you know what you're doing.

I'm actually on the same boat as you when it comes to his idea... can be pretty fishy, unless you know what you're doing.

Anywho, as for Reith's current output on his character idea... wellllll, it is sounding pretty absurd. Something like that is pretty hard to pull off, and I'm wondering if this can be toned down or changed in any way.

For instance, the complexity of the character's lineage. The breeding alone brings questions of "How, why, what do they look like, what are their abilities, are they even fertile after so much interspecies breeding". Prophecy is also kind of a warning sign and not exactly a good reason to push things along.

On top of that, this wizard's reasoning behind his actions. The guy's BATSHIT INSANE or VERY self-absorbed. What possibly happened to this guy that he'd go so far as to blame all beings for his misfortune? If you're really gonna go along this route, it had better be a very good reason... and likely more then just 'Family was butchered'.

EpoxyObsession 02-25-2009 11:06 PM

Sounds like we're on the same page. :)

[Hero] 02-25-2009 11:10 PM

I think it sounds extremely cliche. From what you have, anyways. You could maybe put a twist on it, but I can almost guarantee that it will end badly.

Why do I say this? Because, of this: Curse - Cliche. (Used constantly. Harry Potter, Naruto, many, many stories on lore all of this.) Wizards - Again, cliche. (Do I need to list the insane amount of stories involving wizards? It's pretty self explanatory.) Werewolves - Cliche (Twatlight [a.k.a Twilight.], Wolfman, etc.) Vampires - Ungodly cliche and currently popular to tweens and little girls. (Twilight, Vampire Chronicles, Dracula, etc.)

Seriously, the whole "creature of the night" concept has been overused. So has the "OMG I'm so emo because I was transformed into something horrible! I'm hideous!" concept. I'd honestly suggest dropping it and starting fresh.

Furious 02-25-2009 11:33 PM

[Hero], I disagree with you. Just because something is cliche, and overdone, doesn't mean it should be scrapped. No idea at all should be scrapped, as long as the author wants to do it. Imagine if many of the authors got told their idea was horrible and to scrap it, there'd be a lot less books in the world right now. Don't let your prejudice against tween emo angst stories be the reason this person scraps an idea that could very well turn out good, no matter how unlikely it may seem.

I think overall, the idea needs fine-tuning, but shouldn't be dropped because of a few cliche's.

Reith 02-25-2009 11:47 PM

To put it simply, a ranger receives the curse as a simple solution. The wizard(although necromancer would be more suiting) is crazy with grief and rage. I have seen even the best stories contain crazy villains who do things for a weird reason.WARNING: SPOILER FOR STAR WARS EPISODE 3 BELOW! Anakin fell on the dark side to save Padme. Let me break that down. Guy falls in love. girl loves back. Guy wants to save girl and screws up. Girl dies. Grief is overwhelming and good guy becomes bad guy. In Pendragon, Saint Dane(SPOILER) is also insane but he thinks he is doing that for the right reasons but everything he does is evil. I want to avoid villains who have no personality whatsoever like Sauron. What is his motivation? Palpatine: Why be cruel? Ganondorf: He wants power. Thats about it for him. Those villains are boring and could never have a book following their story and be read a lot. I mean how would it sound if it sounded like this: The monstrous shadow lord killed his servant for being slow. He then sat down on his throne to think about the next attack on good(for no reason at all other than to destroy it). See what I mean? Also the vampires and werewolves are not the story, just elements in a fantasy world. If anyone has played Oblivion or Morrowind with the expansions then they know(hopefully) that vampires and werewolves are in there but they aren't the only thing. The story revolves around the character not the transformations and adds a few extra plots points. The vampires really only have the impact of being hunted with a bounty. Same for werewolves. Blade but revolves around vampires. Blood Ranger(the title I gave it long ago) is about the struggle to overcome this curse and stop the crazy man with magical demons and powers. There are many things I have not even said about the story like the wizard is only the first part. I'm not trying to seem overly defensive but you most certainly cannot judge a book(completely) by its cover. Also Macbeth has some prophecies in it but that turned into a famous play and Harry Potter has the whole prophecy thing and it is known world-wide. I would spend more time on this idea but I have a lot of progress on something else and it is time consuming when you have 5 books ahead of you. I have never been published(that requires a book to publish) but I am told I am a good writer by friends and family but I think they might not want to hurt my feelings. That's why I needed the criticism all of you have given. It really helps a lot with clearing up the mess. Thanks a lot. There is no sarcasm intended if my post sounds abit like it.

Furious 02-25-2009 11:52 PM

Family and friends do tend to stretch the truth to avoid hurting feelings.

Maybe if you provided a sample of something you've written before? Your posts on Menewsha are informative as well...You definitely need to work on grammar, and structure.

I write a lot myself, mostly just stuff with my friends, so if you ever need any advice, I would definitely be happy to help, as I'm sure anyone else who has posted here would.

Reith 02-26-2009 12:09 AM

A sample huh? Hmmmm, I'm at my friend's house on his computer so it would be hard to copy and paste. I'll have to see if I left anything here.

Snowberry 02-26-2009 12:11 AM

Hello.

I will be moving this topic to the Writing Discussion/Story Help Forum, shortly. :)

Reith 02-26-2009 12:19 AM

By sample so you mean from Blood Ranger of from anything I've written?

Furious 02-26-2009 12:23 AM

Anything, as long as it's something you've written. I just need to know around what skill level you're at with writing. It's very important to the story whether or not your skill level permits you the ability to write certain situations properly.

I once had a fanfiction story that I didn't finish for a very long time because I didn't feel like my skill level was worthy enough to do the ending I had in mind justice. I wanted it to be amazing, and in the end it paid off.

Reith 02-26-2009 12:33 AM

It is going to need to be rewritten I know that but if I worked hard I could write at at least twice the level this beginning is at. I have done things my english teacher said was good and she is truthful about things like that. I don't want to seem like I am bragging, I just am telling you this is not my best work but this is all I have.

Quarantine





“Quarantine sector 4 right now! Lock down shuttle bays 13 through 16 and arm the turrets!” Shouted one of the hurried scientists.
“ Sir, I will not tolerate the destruction of my men in there! Give them a chance to get out! We have enough time! She couldn’t possibly get out of her containment room!” Yelled the captain of the frigate called, The Sparrow.
“ With all due respect captain, I will tolerate what is necessary and do it without orders from HQ.” The scientist said.
“ You WILL drop the barriers or I’ll...”
“ What captain? You’ll hurt me? I know all about your mission to Archer Prime. You’ll fail again if you try that on me. What makes you think this company cares about employees? They only want the money and progress no matter who gets it for them.” The scientist said snottily.
“ You Bastard! You’ll kill this entire station if it gets you a little higher in the ranks. Well think again asshole!” The captain ran forward and gave the scientist a hard punch in the face. The scientist reeled and then fell down the stairs. The captain then started to unlock the barriers but was shocked when the scientist was back up and sprinting for the console.
“ Activate lockdown to security console c-7 in hall b-9 security code 928-314! Send security to room a-2 in hall b-9! Lockdown room a-3 in hall b-9!” The scientist spewed. The captain knew there was no escape now and he would have to shoot his way out. What a surprise. He grabbed the net attachment to his MK-3 assault rifle and loaded a net. He fired at the scientist who was now at the top of the stairs. It grabbed him and threw him into the memory core pillar closest to the door.
“ If this room gets hot, I want you to be the target.” Said the captain and then he hid behind it.

Breakout



Rachel had always been afraid of what might happen if she escaped but tormenting, evil scientists had changed that. She was fed up with being prodded and injected and laughed at. Ever since she was fourteen she had been a slave to their entertainment. It was now or never. She hit the glass of her cryotube before the men could activate it. It cracked the first time but another blow sent shards out onto the containment room floor. Alarms went off everywhere and SOAPRs rushed into the room. SOAPRs were fast and deadly. She was faster and more deadly. She brought her foot up to one of the SOAPR’s gripping claws and kicked the gun out of its reach. She then rolled over and grabbed it and fired on them. Their components melted away like butter when the energy weapon hit them. Experimental laser guns had proved useful in every aspect of the scientists work. Including the arming of the Security Operated Anti-Prisoner Robots. She used it to cut a hole in the wall and enter a hallway. She ran to the end of the hall not knowing what to do. A group of twenty men ran towards the end of the hall perpendicular to the one she was in and decided to follow them. They stopped at a door that said A-2 on it. She knew the scientists watched her from these rooms and suddenly she wanted to kill them. Them security force was there to help one she was sure so she fired. The door opened when the first guy burned in the beam and the rest turned to her. They brought their guns level with her head and fired. Dodging was easy when it was projectiles being fired. A laser, not so much the group found out when she dodged and fired back. Half of them were incinerated and the rest were badly injured and lay groaning. She saw a man in the room behind the bodies and a scientist tied to a pillar with some kind of rope net. She knew she had to get revenge on the man who orchestrated her pain when an alarm rang out that was different then the one she had started.
“ Evacuate immediately! Evacuate immediately! Containment room breach! Test subject 23 has escaped! Test subject 24 has escaped! All personnel please move to the escape pod bay! Vaporization imminent This is not a drill!” Shrieked the woman on the intercom system.

Vaporization Imminent



Where am I? Who am I? What is this place? What’s that noise? Why am I cold? A million questioned burned the mind of Geon. He had no idea what was going on or even who he was. He smashed the cryotube glass with a punch and hopped out. Mmmm, warm. What is this? He grabbed the tag on his wrist and read it out loud. “ Test subject 24: Geon. Geon. That’s my name.” He was scared by the words test and subject but his name comforted him greatly. He ran out of the hole in the wall to the containment room and ran down the hall towards the open door to the security room. When the men left, there was only one in there to control any further problems. He was dispatched with a quick kick to the face and then Geon activated the Extreme Defense Program on the computer. Giving Geon the knowledge to operate almost anything in Human space was a very big mistake on their part. When the program was activated he ran toward the escape pods bay and hopped into one. He punched in the codes for Corum VI and launched.

Furious 02-26-2009 12:43 AM

Well, overall I think your level is moderate. You need to work on your grammar, description and probably word usage as well. Also, when you say things like

“Quarantine sector 4 right now! Lock down shuttle bays 13 through 16 and arm the turrets!” Shouted one of the hurried scientists.

You don't have to capitalize 'Shouted' or 'said'.

Also, I don't really know the characters themselves, but these are obviously trained professionals. It seems a little off that they would use insults such as Bastard, and asshole...But that is just me. Personal preference, I guess.

I think you have potential to be a great writer. Perhaps you should talk to some people in real life if you know of any, and ask them for advice as well? You could definitely improve, and the potential is there.

Reith 02-26-2009 12:54 AM

Thanks for reading all that but I have had better days with a keyboard. The other project I have is so expanded by now that I have rewritten the beginning about 5 times by now. I just can't get it to sound the way I want it to. If you know of any other places I could get some constructive criticism like today then that would be very helpful. Thanks again.

Furious 02-26-2009 12:57 AM

Trust me, I know how you feel about things not sounding right. I've had to constantly rewrite certain scenes until they were just right.

When you get the chance, you really ought to post some of your more recent stuff. I would like to read it, because from the way it sounds, it's a lot better than what you posted. So please, when you are able to, post something more recent. I'll critique it.

I would love to help you reach your potential (:

Reith 02-26-2009 09:29 PM

I know this might be a little late but I have something new that I've written and it is definately one the better things I have written. I might make a new thread because this one was meant for the Blood Ranger idea and not for my other pieces so I'll leave a note for the new thread(if there will be one) and check there and here for more posts.

Unknown

I waited in the unknown, a dark abyss drowning the very thought of moving. I don’t know how long I stood at the edge of the chasm. The cave was silent. Stalactites hung like piranha’s teeth and stalagmites reached for the ceiling, eventually bringing out the fight between high and low. The battle of stone was a long one and in the end, no one won. I felt the same way about my situation. A bat flew by startling me and even though I couldn’t see it, I could feel it. It continued to fly until it stopped to perch on the black stone that smothered my mind. The shadows called to me, dripping their poisonous silence into my brain. Insanity crept along, trying to be unseen among the obsidian waves in the ocean contained with me, to distract me from my job. I am what is called an “Atrum Venator” meaning “Dark Hunter”. I hunt evil and right now evil is free. The underworld is empty and cold. The demons have brought hell to Earth. I was forced to choose: save the world, or save someone else. Someone I loved. I chose both, and I had to die.
I stepped off the edge and closed my eyes. The wind rushed past me touching my body like fingers of cool liquid gold, leaping from my face as I flew to my death. Only one thought was clear enough to understand it. Save her. Save her. Save her. The ground greeted me with a high-five from the Reaper. My bones snapped and my head hit the ground, splattering blood everywhere. As the life left me, I laid there in hope. Hope that I would one day return to Earth. Hope that I would return to my family. Hope for the return of the Rune Guardians that kept the gates of Hell from ever releasing the pain I have set free. I was in anguish. Death welcomed me.


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