Islamic clothing and safety issues.
 

As some may know, Islamics have some sexist beliefs concerning having a certain gender.
Guess which one it is?.. The end result is their belief requires increased covering up and modesty for a certain gender.

Now for the tricky part, their covering up presents safety issues in certain situations.
Is this discrimination?...OR should they be forced to dress down for the occasion?.
As you might have read in the news, a person with these beliefs was turned away from a public swimming pool for their Islamic style bathing suit which presented a potential safety hazard.
They are now filing for religious discrimination.

There are other risks involved.
Someone wearing a burka is hiding their face, therefore it presents a security risk in certain instances.
How does one identify a person wearing a burka?. How does a burka wearing person get a drivers license?.
There has been another case involving this issue.

Someone wearing a burka could hide items under the burka. They could use the burka for theft and shoplifting. A burka wearing person could be a suicide bomber. They could just be hiding their idenity to get away with a crime and flee.
This too has happened.

Some even choose to cover up, which IHO I am generally OK with tolerating, as long as they don't expect others to cover up . . I absolutely hate these garments and what they represent, however I do not think I can take away someones' right to wear them if that's what they wish. If someone chooses to be submissive , wants to be dominated, then that's their choice.
I do feel when there's security and safety issues at stake, they should be required to dress down appropriately to the occasion. Their modestly beliefs are not more important in my mind then these other issues.

First off. I would like to see an image of this Islamic style bathing suit in which this debate is about in order to give a full on rebuttal to this argument.

You are bringing up a topic based on a cultures beliefs which have been established for thousands of years. The cultural beliefs go more in depth than this. However, I wouldn't expect anyone to know this as the news definitely portrays every aspect in which these people believe when it comes to a dress standard. :roll:

What are the safety issues in which you are talking about? I am failing to see anything that violates the safety of a person or people.

They should not be forced to dress down. Just as any other person has the right to their religious beliefs as the next person. Do I think it is wrong this person is filing a lawsuit against this party for religious discrimination? Hell no I do not. Those people are in their complete right. There is not a single corporation, business, or person that should be able to dictate what someone wears. It isn't a health violation as these people may have a designated 'bathing suit' just like any other person has.

Yes, that's it. Not sure what all the risks are in a public swimming pool besides being unhygenic
...Just going by what I read in the article. I suppose if there risks are indeed invalid, then the "burkini" should be allowed.

I have some Islamic friends, and they aren't the least bit unhappy about the dress code they're given.

I'm not sure about this specific bathing suit, I guess it depends on the reasons given for it being a safety hazard. It doesn't look unsafe to me.

It doesn't look like it has a health hazard. I mean its a swim suit. Just like any other swim suit it is probably worn to go swimming in. Not everyday shopping.

I really don't want to start a huge debate over all of this but I honestly feel like your post is rather ignorant.
I do not practice Islam, but I can tell you right now that Islam is not a sexist religion by any means.

A few countries that are considered Islam may oppress women, but Islam doesn't oppress women.
Islam sees a woman, whether single or married, as an individual in her own right, with the right to own and dispose of her property and earnings.

Islamic women do it because they want to.
And Muslim women DO dress how they want.
They WANT to wear long skirts or pants.
They WANT to wear a headscarf.
They DONT WANT to wear make up.

I once heard a women who practiced islam say this to a christian who was provoking her:

Sorry, but that argument was MUCH stronger than any other argument the girl attacked her with brought up.


And exactly what safety issues are you talking about? I've NEVER felt my safety being compromised by the fact that somebody wants to dress with a headress and a long shirt/dress.

If one gender is supposed to cover up completely and the other is not, I consider that sexist.
When everyone is expected to cover up and be modest, then I'd drop the sexist comment.

From Here:

Sorry.
Men have a dress code too.

Not in the pictures I've seen. Usually what I see is Islamic men dressed more causally next to burkas and hijabs.
PS: Got a picture of an Islamic man wearing an Islamic bathing suit covering him all up for us?.
Since men have the "same" non sexist dress code, it shouldn't be too hard to find huh?.

Not sexist.

I'm not going to bother trying to sway you.

Not in the pictures you've seen? O.o lol.

Honestly, it is a choice. Their culture is different from ours, but it is definitely a choice on the part of the female. (It might not be so in every single Muslim community, but it should and ought to be according to the Qu'ran, and most Imams.) If only I had the title of the ethnography I read about a year ago where an anthropologist went in depth into Muslim women and their choice of clothing. It was an extremely interesting read.

They are proud of their traditional clothing, and described much the same feeling that I personally have when wearing my own country's National garb. If I could wear those darn heavy, big skirted dresses every day, I would. (But they're too expensive.) I admire Muslim women and their ability to hang onto tradition, despite an increasingly a westernized world.

And I cannot agree with your argument of 'safety hazards'. Baggy clothing? Big skirts? It seems to me that you're actually openly stigmatizing one group because they are somehow generally viewed as suspicious. Which is ludicrous, and quite truthfully, incredibly judgmental. As a woman who's put on a lot of weight lately, I'm very relieved that we're not all having to squeeze into skin-tight garments every day, just to avoid 'posing risks' to society, lol.

People can hide weapons everywhere. Just because some sick, twisted, extremist, fundamentalist jack-asses have exploited Muslim women's traditional garb, does not mean it ought to be banned. That is, I would argue, a dangerous thought.

Personally, yes. I do think it's sexist. It's their choice to follow the rules, yes, and I respect that, but I don't understand that, because there is something wrong with the rules. Not all Islamic people are bad. In fact, I've had several good friends who were. However, guess what: they weren't strict with following "the rules" because they knew some of them were wrong.

Women are required to wear berkas. I'm not sure of the men's dress code, but I do know that all the time, I see a women in a full berka walking with her husband in shorts and a t-shirt. This is wrong for many reasons, the first being the women's safety and comfort. A berka has to be black, and being a dark full garment, I can't even imaginge how uncomfortably hot that woman must be. True, she's safe from sunburn and other such threats, but what about heat stroke?
The other reason why it's wrong is because of it's REASON. The purpose, more or less, is to remove a man's responsibility. If a woman is raped, and she wasn't wearing a berka, "It's not the man's fault, it's the woman's fault for provoking him."

Although the problem with your view is that you are making the assumption that the desire to wear less clothing is a universal human trait. When it has already been demonstrated in this thread by the "The Tallest Building Ever" that not all cultures share this view. Drawing from this I would argue that you, yourself are guilty of infringing on their rights. You are doing so by trying to force cultural norms and values on them which are quite irrelevant.

Stormlick.
I said it was sexist. Whether or not their culture is different does that change this fact.
However they feel about the sexism doesn't change that it's there.
Nobody is probably going to share a picture to disprove this fact, because I'm guessing none exists.
The truth is the men are often dressed conventionally while the women are expected to wear the burkas due to their gender. There is no other reason given for wearing them then being a certain gender.
I never said anything about taking away their choice unless in situations where their choice interferes with safety.

What if we forced all people of Chinese ethnicity to cover up more then other races?. Because Chinese are "frail" and need protection ( not saying they are,just an example). Even if some individual Chinese choose to dress like this it would still be racist because the expectations would be they dress like this and others are not expected to.

nidhogg13, I think you've understand the concept more. Just because it's a choice doesn't mean it's not sexist.
From what I've read they are very uncomfortable. Like wearing a tent; not much air circulation, sweaty, hot and heavy.
From what I gather, the same swimming pools also ban these other forms of loose clothing for the same issues.
People with large baggy coats with multiple pockets are watched more in stores and it's not due to discrimination, it makes sense.

reddeath26, Huh?...I do not support banning burkas. Outside of the safety issues, I am not into forcing anyone to stop wearing a burka if that's what they choose.

This is not the same at all. Islamic people aren't a race, there are people of various ethnicities that choose to follow the Islamic religion. I can not tell you about other counties standards and whether it's really a choice there, but from what I've seen in America, it is a choice for both the men and women who practice Islam.

You are talking about forcing all Chinese people to cover up. That is not the same thing at all as someone making a choice to cover up because their religion tells them they should.

This religion says a certain gender should be covered up, I don't see the difference between that and saying a certain race should be covered up.

How is it sexist, exactly, if it's a choice on the woman's part to wear a burka? (Like it is, in very many Muslim communities.) I don't usually get my facts from pictures, by the by.

I have to agree with Claudia that the dress code is sexist, but no more than the sexist "western" rule that men are not supposed to wear skirts and women are supposed to dress up nicely. Just like with the burka you of course have a choice whether to follow those rules or not, but you'll have to face the consequences later on.
(In other words: Society sucks, no matter what religion or culture.)

What I really hate though is that where I live I'm supposed to accept that women wearing burkas are excluded from following laws that prohibit other people to mask themselves in public. There's a good reason for those laws (Claudia mentioned a couple in her first post), so why are they allowed to ignore them just because of their personal decision to wear a burka? What about my personal decision to wear a ski mask?

I think it's because of how wet cloth tends to pull you down after a while. At least that's what we were told during our swimming lessons, and why we are always supposed to rather wear bikinis/bathing suits/swimming shorts instead of normal clothing.

Where are your facts for this? 'Cause I have seen a muslim women get the shit beat out of her for pulling her headscarf to the back of her head for a quick second.

Islam doesn't dictate the life of every single Muslim woman. Islam does not oppress Muslim women. Some Muslim men do, claiming they are told to do so by the the Qu'ran and the Hadith, but according to many Imams there are no such things written in any of the holy texts of Islam. But I guess every religious text is subject to sick interpretation by fundamentalists and/or extremists. But. Just because there are Christian, Jewish, Hindu, what have you extremists does not mean religion is oppressive. That's just generalizing too strongly.