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-   -   Reading Stories - When do you give up and Why? (https://www.menewsha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127846)

For-Chan Cookie 09-04-2009 01:08 PM

Reading Stories - When do you give up and Why?
 
As we all know, not every piece of fiction posted on the internet is literary gold. I was wondering how much of a chance do you give a story before you stop reading it and hit the back button? What are some of the things that will immediately make you turn around, or not click at all? How often can/will you overlook glaring errors before you throw your hands up in the air and walk away?

One of my my problems is that people come up with some interesting premises and I really want to see where they take them. They just often lack the ability to properly write up their ideas. Grammar gets me every time! If there's awful grammar in a description, I turn around. Lack of capitalization, horrid punctuation, bad tenses. Grammar can immediately kill anything for me. A few lines in and I'll just walk off.

Purple prose. I just can't read it without either cackling or groaning. Sometimes I'll try to slog through it but more often than not it's a journey I just can't make.

This is more of a fanfiction specific problem, but characterization. You already know what a character is supposed to act like, so when fanfiction authors have Harry Potter weeping like an emo 16 year old girl, I'm so out of there!

So how about you? When do you give up and why?

Nolori 09-05-2009 12:44 AM

Hmm. That depends on if I'm editing it or not. If I'm just reading it, it doesn't take much at all to stop me. Sometimes I'll just start doing something else no matter how well written it is. -shrug-

Granted, if something is just a Wall of Text it'll turn me away. It's too daunting a task to wade through. Capitalization gets me sometimes too, but for the most part bad grammar I can deal with if the idea/characters are good.

Characterization is another big for me. Even outside of fan-fiction. Especially outside of fan-fiction. Mary-Sues (and Gary-Stus) make me cry on the inside. Inside fan-fiction, I admit sometimes it can make me laugh. That's probably a bad thing.

And, uhm, what's Purple Prose? I feel like this is something I should know.

(Also, don't mind me. I'm just going to reply to every thread you make in the Lit. Forum. Hehe. )

For-Chan Cookie 09-05-2009 01:57 PM

Even editing a badly done story can shut me down. My Italian friend used to make me edit her stuff. She had pretty good English, but it was the stuff that she screwed up that just made it painful, no matter how much I pointed out her mistakes. I really don't edit much at all for that problem. The more something needs my help, the less I want to read it ^_^;;

If a story doesn't have a good hook, I will wander off, even if the writing is decent. If the writing is bad, I'm gone. If there's formatting issues, like no spaces, wall of text, I just turn around.

For original characters, I'm more prone to giving them a chance, because they're supposed to be original. Of course, Mary Sues and Gary Stus are just awful. It's why I hardly read any original fiction. People have a hard time writing original characters that aren't Sues and Stus!

As for Purple Prose, Wikipedia says this:
Quote:

Purple prose is a term of literary criticism used to describe passages, or sometimes entire literary works, written in prose so overly extravagant, ornate, or flowery as to break the flow and draw attention to itself. Purple prose is sensually evocative beyond the requirements of its context.
(Don't worry, you seem to be the only active member of this forum! I made this thread with the expectation that you'd probably be the only one to come in. Same goes for the other thread. I doubt the people who do that stuff are gonna just pop in and explain themselves XD)

Nolori 09-05-2009 04:55 PM

I only turn around for editing if it's something I can't edit without saying, "Really? Just stop. Stop here. Your characters, they make no sense. Your plot, it's a rip-off. Your... everything. Just stop."
If that's the only thing I can think to say, I just don't say it. Granted, I don't run into that too often. Usually what I find are stories that really can be made into good works, they just need some editing. -shrug-

About Original Characters - Yeah, I understand that sometimes you can be more lenient for them. (Or rather have to be.) But there's a difference between choosing a few Sue-qualities (which individually can be quite interesting) and trying to force the reader into pitying/loving them. Not everyone is an orphan!

More often than not I'll actually read purple prose because, for the most part, I am a description junkie. And for the most part if the descriptions can be moved around are allowed to breathe, they're often not that bad.
(I like how you explained purple prose in purple. I see what you did there. . xD)

(Somehow we need to get more people in here. I have not figured out how yet, but I will. -Determination!-
Also, I kind of wish they would. xD )

Hayzel 09-05-2009 07:14 PM

Grammar can be annoying, but after proofreading enough of my sister's essays, it's tolerable. I'm more for content. If there aren't enough interesting verbs or there are too many cliche's or stupid phrases then that annoys me. I usually give it a paragraph before I feel disgusted enough by something to leave. Content is my main point thing with writing.

Dystopia 09-08-2009 10:24 PM

It depends on what I'm reading and my mood.

If the sentences are missing words and the punctuation is iffy and I can only hear the voices of noobs instead of your characters... I am probably going to look at the first three sentences and turn away before bothering to read. >>;

If the quality is a little unstable the story is interesting, you might have me anywhere from a few sentences to the entire story.

And I am sorry to confess that I write purple prose. >>;;

Hayzel 09-09-2009 12:20 AM

That's probably the most annoying thing for me. Missing words. When someone writes something and leaves out a lot of words I can't stand it. It's like "Oh No! I don't actually know what they were meaning in that sentence! *whimper*"

Sadly enough I am guilty of that flaw once in a while. But as soon as I find it I go and *kill* it. :D

For-Chan Cookie 09-09-2009 12:36 AM

@Nolori - While grammar is a big issue for me, sometimes I can ignore it. For instance I read a fic the other day by someone who was clearly ESL. The premise of the story interested me and it was only four chapters long, so I decided to hang on for a while. The grammar made me want to shoot myself in the head, but in the end it was the super awful characterization that got to me the most.

Speaking of not everyone being an orphan, that is such a big theme in anime and manga. Someone's parents are always dying or they're sending them off to live in apartments alone. I think it's often used as a ham fisted way to create drama and tragedy. It's just cheap really.

I like descriptive language, but not to the point where I feel like I need a machete and a dictionary just to hack through what the people are trying to say.

(It seems that we are already, there's more than just you and I now XD)

Anyway, a lack of vocabulary will often get to me, as well as completely misused vocabulary.

Hayzel 09-09-2009 01:13 AM

Not that I'm making fun of ESL people or anything, I respect them very much for trying to learn english as a second language, but I'm glad on a forum I can read their writing instead of listen to it.

I had a korean room mate a while back, sweetest girl ever. But I had to laugh when she pronounced occur as "oak-oor". It was spelled fine she just had a funny pronunciation of it. From then on I screened her speeches BEFORE she gave them. ^.^

Although It does tend to be easier to tell if someone is ESL or not simply by misused vocabulary or rarely used vocabulary. The word that gets to me the most is "ignorant." People should NOT use that word unless they know EXACTLY what it means. Too many people use it as a replacement to arrogant and that isn't what it means. :(

If I even have the slightest doubt to what a word exactly means, I look it up! and with online dictionaries nowadays, it really isn't hard typing in the word and then hitting "enter". Except when you're looking for the spelling. Then it can be a pain in the butt.

Nolori 09-09-2009 03:26 PM

I love online dictionaries. Mostly though I use online thesauruses. I have one character whose vocabulary is so much higher than mine I actually can't write for him without a thesaurus handy.
I think the internet in general is a brilliant way to learn. It's a shame so few people actually seem to use it for that. =\

I tend to use my Word spell-check for spelling and if that doesn't work I use Google. I'm always surprised how good Google works in that area.

Hayzel 09-12-2009 11:56 PM

Google should be inserted into Word instead of using the word. Google works better.

and I HATE word grammar check. it's stupid. Specially since I use SO MUCH syntax in my writing. The entire piece tends to be underlined in green for grammar errors when there really aren't any.

That's one thing that will definitely keep me in a story. Great syntax.

Nolori 09-14-2009 02:08 AM

I like the grammar check if only because every now and again it catches something I SHOULD change.

I think it depends on the kind of syntax. If it's the perfect essay syntax, I don't find it all that interesting. As for emotional syntax, I agree entirely. If it's great emotional syntax than it'll keep me hooked.

Hayzel 09-14-2009 03:19 AM

Well. I sort of break some rules with my syntax. for example, I know how people always pick out when you use a word over and over again, but sometimes it is done on purpose to emphasize that specific word. If done well, this particular syntax can be very effective.

Another one of my favorites is positive negatives and vice versa. It's quite simple. You can make the reader think of something is either positive or negative(or good or bad) in context of the storyline simply by using a reversal word. I can't think of any amazing examples right now but it's like... describing and intricate and beautiful design on a trash can. Now that's a positive negative because the trashcan was mentioned later in the sentence than the beautiful design. And by mentioning trashcan, I made the description of the design seem suddenly cheap and unworthy.

Another favorite that I don't know what it's called but it's something like... "The swan tripped." Swans are generally considered beautiful and graceful. Tripping is the opposite. "The Swan" builds up a short bit to something pretty and "tripped" is like the punchline or the fall.

I like playing with that kind of syntax.

Nolori 09-14-2009 03:44 PM

I do too. My professors don't tend to care for it though. Haha. Story-syntax and essay-syntax do not play well together, unforunately.

For-Chan Cookie 09-15-2009 11:19 PM

I don't even use Word, so I don't have to deal with its attempts at grammar check. I use Open Office and I act as my own grammar check. I'm just awesome like that XD

Nolori 09-16-2009 02:59 PM

Oh man, I can't do that. My eyes will pass right over it because I know what I mean so I guess my brain just figures it must be perfect!

For-Chan Cookie 09-17-2009 12:35 AM

That's why you read things aloud when you edit. By reading it aloud, you're forced to actually read it, not let your brain supply what it thinks should be there. You hear how it sounds and thus catch more mistakes than if you read it silently to yourself.

Nolori 09-17-2009 01:50 AM

You know, I do that when I read and edit other people's work. Lord knows why I don't do it for my own. I think I'm just more subconcious about other people hearing my work than I am about someone hearing me read someone else's work. Heh.

For-Chan Cookie 09-17-2009 07:33 AM

Well, I used to work in a writing center and we had all our clients do that. It's a helpful thing. The brain will tend to skip over misspellings and all that. It's like that letter that goes around that says as long as the first and last letter are in place, the middle letters can be completely jumbled up but you'll still understand what the message is saying.

I edit in the privacy of my own room, so it's easy for me to read my stuff aloud. Sometimes I write a little more...*coughs* adult oriented things. I'll read that aloud too XD

Nolori 09-17-2009 03:57 PM

I'd never thought about comparing it to the 'jumbled up middle letters' thing before, but I guess that is essentially what it is, huh?
Also, I totally wish there was anything like a writing center around here. We have one at my college for essay-like things and such, but nothing for creative writing.

Ah. I write at my desk which is in the living room. So... that makes things awkward. Haha.
Also, you have my complete and utter respect for being able to write 'adult' anything. All of mine turns out SO bad that I've just stopped trying for the most part.

For-Chan Cookie 09-17-2009 04:27 PM

Pretty much. Well, it was a college writing center that I worked for, but we worked on all sorts of stuff. Teachers assign all sorts of things so we had a lot of assignments walk through our doors.

All the more reason to move your desk into your room XD

Writing "adult" stuff can be soooooo hard. x_x There's a sort of tedium about it because you know what the actions are and you're trying to make it...interesting and not boring as hell or cheesy romance novel quality. Nobody wants to read about love rods! :rofl:

Nolori 09-17-2009 04:49 PM

Maybe I'll head in there at some point just to see what it's like. Maybe they have a NaNo group in November. =3

My desk is SO huge it won't fit. Also, we just got it down the stairs after almost getting smashed by it. There is NO way we're getting it back up there. xD

xDD WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT EVERYONE WANTS TO READ ABOUT LOVE RODS.

Cheesiness is my biggest problem. If I'm laughing while writing it, it's probably not going to work. :sweat:

Alegretto 09-18-2009 02:04 AM

An interesting topic, but I really can't contribute much, as nearly all my major points have been hit. Grammar, characterization... I've been cringing in reading through some Team Fortress 2 fics, and some of the female OCs... WOW. They're almost as bad as the garbage one can find in particularly bad Potter fics. Almost. Ah, to rid the world of Sues! And to rid the fics of portraying the characters painfully out of character. Sometimes its just... wow.

Another thing that gets me is humor. I know humor is probably exceedingly tough to write, as prose can skip out a lot on the timing that makes humor... funny. Sadly, a lot of fics I peruse through promise humor and simply fail spectacularly.

Pacing also gets me. For some reason, so do paragraph structures. If it's one line after one line after one line followed by two lines, I just find it less appealing to read than two paragraphs of varying sizes. I think it just falls in with pacing. If something is paced badly, I'm not going to get into it. And walls of text? Scary!

I think the last thing that really grates on me is dialogue. I can't claim to be an expert on writing dialogue (hell, I think its my weakest point), but some fics just can't get the dialogue down right. Sometimes it's a matter of people just saying the damnedest hokiest pieces of crap. Sometimes it's a matter of every character speaking with the same voice. But it's like the flow of thins- if it doesn't fit right, I really can't get into it.


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