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I would agree that when someone (such as Scribbed Lore or myself) ask that you use gender-neutral pronouns in referring to them, that you respect that, especially in this thread of all places.
I also like that the hair, gender, facial features, etc swapping of the avatars are free on Menewsha. With my normal persona's long hair I'm effeminate looking on a female base. With the shirt that Scribbled is currently wearing, hir torso looks female but hir face and haircut looks more masculine or at least 'tomboyish'. In my opinion, Menewsha is the best avatar site for being a 'sandbox' for experimenting with how people perceive your gender, or your obscured gender, and how you can forge your own way based on your personality first and foremost as opposed to all the snap judgements and baggage that comes with whether you have xx or xy chromasomes. Though it was 'hip' when I was... fourteen? I am actually downright offended when strangers message me out of the blue ask me "a/s/l?" Does it really matter? Only if your intent is cyber-sex, and even then I could be lying -.-; |
Alas, I couldn't find another tank top in the right shade. :(
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Yeah, if someone specifically asks you use gender-neutral pronouns in referring to them then that is only polite. Though I'm a bit of a airhead at times and can forget. So if I mess up please just remind me k.
Menewsha rocks at being able to customize your avy the way you want. I hope it is something they never change. |
Scribbled: If you identify as male should I not call you he/ him? Or are you more like me, with no real Gender whatsoever?
I did a tally once. Traits on either the masculine or feminine side of the spectrum. With one hundred traits I came out with two more on the girl's side. lol. I tend to shift back and forth though. No real reason. Just happens. I have one friend who refers to me as being "gender fluid" (as in my gender shifts around) |
@sarofset- The 'traits' that you used from your tally, where did you get them from or did you make them up yourself? I've taken online quizzes that say I'm either balanced or either slightly to one side or the other.
Also if a person is gender-fluid, moving back and forth, all the better reason to use the neutral pronouns because it would be a real punch to the solar plexus if a person got it wrong. |
Crow is spot on; because my gender is fluid and likely to change, it's easier to stick with the gender neutral pronouns because then you'll never get 'em wrong!
Most days I feel pretty neutral myself, anyways, all in-between and both but neither. The days when I definitely feel like a girl/woman I wear feminine clothing like skirts and dresses. The rest of the time I wear jeans and t-shirts. Which brings me to my next point.. I've realized that by wearing jeans and a t-shirt, because of my hairstyle and the way I carry myself, I can be read as either female or male but this is not the case when wearing skirts and dresses. What is it about pants that makes them supposedly gender neutral that either or all genders can wear them without fuss? (Mostly, there are always exceptions.) |
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I remember seeing a goth kid at my first anime convention who was male bodied and in a long skirt and it was really, really awesome. It was even more awesome because ze was playing DDR and I wasn't sure how ze even managed that feat. :XD
I've been trying to convince my partner for years to wear skirts and he keeps turning them down. I think it's a matter of aesthetics, however - we can't find one that he likes the look of. |
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I think cross dressing, if it is a part of the person's personality, and is appropriate (won't get them fired from some snooty job where the management could use to have the sticks removed from their...) is AWESOME.
I'm a bit of an eyeliner fiend, and when I go to goth clubs and concerts, I like to make sure that both my partner and I are wearing eyeliner... and nobody thinks twice about either of us wearing it there... |
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I was always fond of the goth scene for that reason as well. :XD The cosplaying scene is good for that too; I love a good femme!Doctor or femme!Tuxedo Mask.
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Yeah, actually where I live no one would question it if a guy walked around in a skirt. It happens enough that no one cares. lol.
Scribbled: I was honestly just asking for clarification. |
No harm done. :D Gender neutral pronouns are the way to go as far as I'm concerned.
I don't suppose anyone else has a kid or two (or more) and is going to teach them gender neutral pronouns, do they? |
I will teach my kids to call people by their name. It eliminates the problem completely. lol.
I don't like the gender nutral pronouns because they seem like more pc stuff, and pc stuff bothers me on an epic level. I'll use them if I need to for you though. lol. Just 'cause you're nice. ;) ...honestly... >.> I'd prefer she... if that's okay. <.<; ...also sie is she. ...or you... it's German. lol. |
What's wrong with respecting other people's needs, desires and boundaries? Because that's what the "pc stuff" boils down to - showing other people respect.
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PC for the sake of being PC is something I find loathsome and as a counter culturist I'm against it, as people take it to rediculous levels often.
However being PC for the sake of somebody you know personally boils down to your respect, friendship, and relationship with them and you obviously want to return kindness with kindness... There's a huge difference between those two reasons in my book. |
I think everyone is deserving of respect and that respect shown in an abundance leads to everyone being much happier. If that makes me PC then PC I am and without shame.
I will respect you, whether you like it or not. *silly* So, what do you mean, Crow, by PC for the sake of being PC? |
Well for instance me existing is not pc. Or at least me being okay with me existing.
See I'm a white male with blond hair and blue eyes, and I'm Christian. So in terms of pc, I'm the devil. It is generally assumed that I'm a racist, sexist, anti gay, gun nut, especially since my family is from the south. My existence is not pc. Pc is not about respect. It's about dividing people based on idiotic things which do not matter. Respect is respect. It's a different matter all together. |
Well said sarofset! I'm going to have to think a bit before posting my answer, but it is somewhat in line with yours. PC for the sake of being PC is people making large general assumptions and in some cases trying to 'change history', but the historcal context of things are very, very, important because they show us how far we've come...
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It sounds like to me that you have a chip on your shoulder and/or that you've had some bad experiences with people who are interested in and involved in the social justice movement, sarofset.
I'm interested in what you have to say about the "changing history" aspect, Crow. |
Well the fact that I have absolutely no rights anymore could have something to do with it. I realize it's not the case everywhere, but in most cases it's not pc for me to not be ashamed of my ancestry, race, sex, sexual preference, etc.
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Except that you do have rights - every right there is in the book to exist without experiencing abuse, violence, shame tactics and general malevolence because of your ancestry, race, sex, sexual preference, etc.
I do not. While I share in the white privilege that you experience, I have experienced in the past and continue to experience verbal, emotional and physical abuse, violence, shame tactics and general malevolence because of my sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, religious (or lack thereof) beliefs, weight and my status as a disabled person. The PC movement, as it were, seeks to protect people like me from these experiences and if it means that it's one less time a man verbally harasses me in public, one less time I'm followed home while having obscenities shouted at me, one less time that I feel like I don't deserve to live.. well, then I'm all for the PC movement and social justice in general. |
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Since I was four I have been made to feel ashamed of my race, sex, ancestry, and yes recently my sexual preference. Not to mention my religious beliefs which get me attacks from both sides. Also, there is no "white privilege." I can't get grants or scholarships. I can't really get loans. I'm the last person they look at for jobs most places. I'm constantly attacked with racial slurs and stereotypes. And by the by, I'm also considered a disabled person. I'm dysgraphic, I'm bipolar, I have an auditory processing disorder, I have a severe stress disorder, and I have a neurological problem which makes me shake. And you think I've never experienced physical abuse? wrong. In middle school I was beaten about every other day, because the rumor was that I was gay. In recent history I've tried to explain to people that I'm a girl, not a boy, and it's like throwing it at a brick wall. Does not penetrate. Like at all. And guess what. To the pc movement, all of that was just fine. To a lot of them it's some kind of sick justice. Thanks, but no thanks. ---------- I do not mean to growl. I'm just very tired of being attacked for everything that I am, and being told I should be ashamed, by teachers, and the media, not to mention total strangers. I apologize if my tone was hostile. |
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