Personally, I think this is a giant scape-goating, excuse post, and I also think it's rude.

Here's why:

1. Nice way to name other sites. Did you get their consent? You're post-stalking Solia and then name-dropping them as not doing well. Are you trying to drag sites down with you?

2. This has nothing to do with anime. Anime could get wiped out totally and people would still go on avatar sites. Avatar sites haven't been about anime in a long time. That being said:

3. Gaia is not hurting, because their pixels are awesome. Whether or not you like Gaia's pixels and art, they are current, up to style pixels, tool-shaded and attractive. You can't expect to keep an avatar site going on flatter-looking, cartoony items when Gaia is giving out realistic, eye-catching items. Now they've got animation. Whether or not you like that, too, it's new, it's bright, it's shiny, and people will put money into it.

4. See #3. Gaia is not hurting. I find it funny that you assume this in your post of, 'My site is hurting because of reasons beyond us' when Gaia can put out $20.00 items and get hundreds of people to pay for them. That goes for the RIGs, as well. People complained, but now they're a huge income source.

5. For a small site, you seem to be decently irresponsible with funding. You're spending that much on flash games when you could be pumping out updated bases and items.


Overall, I love that your 'reasons' don't seem to even consider 'the items we make are not attractive against the competitions' or 'we're spending money in the wrong places'.

I understand this will likely get flooded with responses of, 'I like the items!' and yes, I understand, the people on this site like the items.

But most avatar site users don't.

And that's the reason you're not getting money.

I'm sure all smaller sites will totally love you now that you've pretty much ground their faces into the pile of shit you're sitting in.

@Acai- they are not making excuses, excuse me but you show a true lack of understanding, it does come down to alot of the market and economics, just because you dont see the other sites suffering doesn't mean they are not. Gaia hasn't been honest with its users in a very long time. I also feel that you are taking the Fuck you attitude towards the one site that is completely honest.

Gaia is most likely suffering in ways you can not see....because its leaders will hide the fact for as long as possible....they also gained so many users that the impact probably doesn't hit them quite as hard as everyone else...but trust me they are indeed feeling it.....and many other small avatar sites are suffering as well.....you just need to open your eyes and look and you will discover the lack of activity not only here but on many many avatar sites....people are just not that interested.

I dont think inso mentioned the other sites to rub there faces in anything but rather as a side by side comparison which believe me is something business has been doing for a loooooong time.

And whereas you might not think it is, avatar sites will always have a basis in anime. I dont necessarily think the decline in interest in anime is necessarily the problem but rather the declining interest in avatar sites. This decline in interest is a problem for not just menewsha but the others as well.

Its also NOT inso's fault that he's sitting in a pile of shit right now, or that the other sites are also in this same pile of shit. To pay as much out of pocket for this site as he does is unthinkable and yes very careing of the site and its users. Its starting to put so much strain on him and the site that he has indeed put forth the issue at hand and worn his heart on his sleeve for the users to see.

Last but not least, you say he is not putting his money in the right places, where would you have him put it then.....he's paying the people and servers that keep this site running. There working on tactic's to stay afloat but that does not mean he can just snap his fingers and make everything cost less. Thats economics for you....the market right now is shitty.....you have to realize that.

Just because YOU think the items are shitty doesn't mean everyone else does, so please refrain from useing this arguement....its truely not valid. Alot of mene's users absolutely adore the items and the layering system is to die for.....Mene has more layers then any other site leaving room for much much more uniqueness in the avatars people create.

Sorry if this sounded a bit ranty everyone.....

@Cora: I'd just ignore the troll. Look at his stats. >.> He just wants to stir up trouble where he knows he'll get attention.

I'm thinking he's from solia and gaia, and pissed off that we know there in as big of shit as we are.

I couldn't help making that post....I was alittle pissed off....

I'm sort of wondering if you even read that post.

So the site takes no responsibility for failing, but it would take responsibility for achieving things? That's not how business works. This may not be a corporate site, but regardless, it needs to make money, and it's not.

Why is money being put into flash games when it's clearly not helping the site? Yes, the current userbase enjoys it, but what exactly does it do for people who are already not interested? Why not get better pixels and better art? Or a more attractive layout?

And I'm pretty sure, if you read what I posted there, that I clearly stated the people on Mene like the items, but most avatar site users don't.

I like that you jump to conclusions that I'm from another site. Let's hear some more conspiracy theories.

PS- Gaia has enough money to run staff softball outings. Clearly hurting.

I didn't "Jump to Conclusions" I used deductive reasoning based on your comments. You continued to Glorify the things that gaia does in your post....only someone who is a regular gaian user would even know that those things where taking place. Its not jumping to conclusions its hypothysising.

As for the flash game....they made it because the users asked them to, The number one rule to marketing is to know what your consumer base wants and to gear in that direction. If you spent 5 minutes in the Site Feedback forum you'd find on any give day at least half a dozen requests for new games, better hair colors, and store previews. They where simply catering to their userbase in attempts to keep the users happy and wanting mene to stay alive and also to give that extra glorified ness to draw more people in.

As for your question, yes, I read your entire post. And mene is not standing back and taking no responsibility but they also want to draw our attention to the things that we can help change. Putting forth the things that they need to work on that we can't really help with doesn't really have any gain. I imagine they know the problems that exist on their end and are working on them, in the meantime they are trying to bring to light the things that effect us the user base.

Thank you dragon ^.^

me too, I want this thread to never die ^.^

You used deductive reasoning and came to the conclusion that I've been on Gaia? Yes, I am. You also said I was likely from Solia, which I'm not, but that doesn't change my mind that this announcement was probably the tackiest thing I've seen in a long time. You're saying I'm 'glorifying' what they do. Well, what they're doing works, doesn't it? I don't need to 'glorify' anything to state facts. People buy things on Gaia. They don't buy things on Menewsha.

Catering to your pre-existing userbase isn't always a great idea. Instead of spending 3k making a flash game and bringing little to no new money-spending users to the site, they could have made newer and more attractive items. And I've said this several times now... great, the people ON Mene LIKE the items on Mene. There are hundreds of thousands of other avatar site users who clearly don't, will never join this site, and will never spend money here. The site isn't even getting it's OWN current users to spend money. So what exactly is this flash game going to do? The priority here would be money making items so instead of pulling 3k out of pocket, the site could put 3k of new, earned money into new features. If they make more new items and get more members, then word will also spread around the Mene is doing something new.

Also, I do NOT consider this taking responsibility. The site posted a, 'This is why we're failing' post, tried to name-drop other sites they think are doing poorly when they've got no actual proof of this, and then said nothing about improving their main product.

Pixels are their product.

Gaia is the Starbucks of avatar sites. It's not always the best, but it's constantly recovering itself through mistakes and serving mostly-great quality products. Gaia has flops, but then they recover and bring out something else. I'm using Gaia, not glorifying it, because Gaia's the only one having real corporate success here.

I understand not everyone like's Gaia's monthlies, but let's put up an example:

If you ask most people to pay $2.50 for either a gourmet brownie made in a bakery that has whipped cream and is served on a plate with chocolate swirls on it, or pay $2.50 for a decent tasting brownie served on a plain plate, MOST people are going to take that first one. Just like most people buy music recorded in a recording studio and not a garage. Just like most people pay ten dollars to see Hollywood films and not indie films.

This is about the product this site is selling, the product's quality, and the attractiveness of that product to consumers.

Well, not everybody who comes on WANT new items as much as they want new games. I see more people suggesting new games, new games, where are teh new games than items. And if they like the games, they get more money from playing, stay on, and hopefully contribute.

And you make a great point. Gaia is a corperation. Menewsha isn't, as far as I know. Gaia gets more money because it is a corporation, such as tax benefits I believe that menewsha doesn't get.

Gaia is also much older then menewsha, in the beginning gaia was shit too....still is if you ask me.

If I can point this out.....it was also the first. A secondary company is always going to struggle more then the parenting company who it spawned from. Compairing menewsha to gaia is like compareing that small little corner hamburger stall to McDonnalds. It just doesn't mesh well. We're not trying to beat out Gaia.....we're trying to stay alive.

Have you ever considered that people on other sites have never seen the items. Most people dont get past the fact that we are smaller then gaia.....that we dont have flashy things like Towns. 90% of people who stop by dont stay long enough to see how great the place is because we're not big and flashy.....yet to be big and flashy costs money. You cant get money without people.........I'd like to point out that your the same as all the rest of them. You come in, expect it to be big and flashy and bright, complain about the things that are trying to bring us further into a newer age of avatar sites. Inso didn't just impliment a new game into the system, he also is introducing a DAC, still in beta granted but thats bound to draw some of its users BACK. some people flat out said they left because the MAC was so outdated. He also gave the roleplaying forum a beautiful dice roler.....and the option of any color hair you want is a wonderful option.

Not to mention the community, anyone who tells you gaia is anything but a disjuncted bunch of people with minimal interaction besides endless bumping is lying to you. Menewsha offers conversation....but again....most people never make it that far. The old users are kind and accepting of new users, we welcome them with open arms....the only site I have ever known to do this. Gaia is all about being the richest.....the new users are reguarded with such a low rep that its unbelievable. (I was an 03 member.....but I did a research project on gaia once and disquised myself as a newbie.....I was appalled at the results)
For the record and a completely random side note....starbucks is descusting blech.....

@Dragon- I dont either, I drink hot chocolate though and starbucks has the grossest hot chocolate like...EVER. I prefere Tim Horton's anyday.

southern sweet tea or northern sweet tea?

lol, northern sweet tea has the sugar in the origonal mix which makes it sweeter, southern sweet tea is like tea.....with lots of added sugar but the origonal bitterness still exists.

Interesting. I'll have to try that....though I'm lazy I just usually by Lipton's Citris Green Tea xP

Cora, you seem to have something against Gaia. First of all, Gaia was not the first avatar site. They were shitty at first and... look at that, they are now the biggest avatar site, which other sites can't even touch. It's like they... worked and improved. If Gaia had stayed what they used to be, they'd be in the same position as Menewsha. By the way, I happen to be in tons of threads and guilds on Gaia with great people and real conversations. You coming out and saying, 'There's no conversation there!' just makes you seem like you didn't really try. Just... don't go in the Chatterbox and the GD?

I gave Menewsha a chance. Have you checked my join date? I didn't stay because of the items and avatars never improving. I actually had friends join this site and then leave because of the same reason. Friends, you know, that I met through having real conversations with on Gaia.

Every site is flooded with requests for new games, and the avatar sites don't usually give in, because it's not what makes them money. They make a game when they have the time and money, and usually it's for an event.

Dragon- I'm saying the announcement was tacky because it was like, 'Hey guys, we're failing, and guess who else is! That's right, we post stalked Solia and we figure they're failing, too!' Then it said that all smaller sites are this way, when in reality, the interest in avatar sites just shifts. People can only spend time and money on so much at once, and clearly Mene has fallen out of interest.

Also:

-Paying for one item that only gives you one pose INCREASES site revenue.
-Why would it matter that they're blowing 3k on a game people asked for if the site's just going to die and you'll lose everything anyway?
- I like that I come in here to state my opinion, and you tell me Gaia is unwelcoming and Mene is not, but then you call me a troll for having a negative opinion about the site and tell me the site I tried to come here from has no real human interaction and it sucks. I'm telling you why myself and tons of other avatar site users do not prefer to spend time and money on here.
You could have this site sit around all day with people throwing 'good lucks' and 'I wish I could help's at the site, but it's not going to change the opinions of the people that think the site is terribly outdated.

And really, a lot of people from other sites have seen the items. Then they left. Not trying to be harsh with that one, it's simply what happened. If you don't want them on the site, fine, but then the site's also not getting their cash.

You have like....9 posts...to post nine times and think you know a site is a little stupid. I am not calling you stupid however, I am much more professional then that, but this idea that you know mene is indeed stupid....so I'm going to discount your join date, because you CLEARLY didn't give it much of a chance either.

As for gaia, yes, I hate gaia with a passion, I was there from the beginning, donated monthly was even a mod at one point. I was hacked.....had everything.....all my hard work stolen from me and had the admins give me a shut the fuck up attitude. Not only did they refuse to help me the refused to get my stuff back. Did I leave then....no I clung to that site for years.....I still gave them my everything, my support......and then one day I had a developer say to a group of people in the site feedback forum, (we where not being unruley, or unkind mearly making suggestions.) We dont care what you have to say so why do you even bother, you think we care about your measly sugestions. Why dont you just shut up and leave. I did leave....and I never went back.

However, that has nothing to do with this. Gaia got big fine. And yes, it was the first BIG avatar site. 90% of avatar sites origonated from users who came from gaia. It would be a lie to claim otherwise. It had a LOT longer to make its mark....in fact 4 years more then menewsha. 2004 and 2005 wheren't all peaches and cream on gaia either, add that to the recession to avatar sites and anime sites alike and yes it gives you problems.

-Most people are going to donate the same weather they get all there poses in one item or five....its just going to come down to how many they hold onto.
-why do you keep harping on the game? Its just one of the changes inso has instilled in the last week or so.
-I never called you a troll, not once. But gaia is not a welcoming community. I know this from experience, least of its leaders....they are the worst of the lot. I Also know this from experience. I came to menewsha and stayed for the items....they are lovely. The pixelist....(yes they only have one main pixelist last I knew her name is wish) works hard to make every item unique. Inso is trying to bring us into a new age of avatar sites, but when people like you come in here and shut down everything they say, its a bit daunting.

I spent my time here with my small post count lurking and trying to figure out why the shops haven't been coded better so far. That's another suggestion: Instead of 3k going towards a game, how about towards better coding so new users aren't freaked out by the fact that they have to scroll through pages and pages of the same items because of all the recolors that you need to buy separately?

I'm sorry you lost all your items, and I know Gaia has problems, but Gaia also has success in other areas. They bring in money. Right now, that's what Mene needs to do. I've noticed a distinct improvement in Gaia's items and other money-making features since then. Gaia is lasting through recessions. Gaia lasted as a site and a company, with a real office and rent to pay, while people were being laid off and going into debt and had no money.

I'm still not sure why you think I didn't 'give the site a chance'. I'm not going to post on a site with financial problems that also has items I don't like and shops that aren't coded for the convenience of the user. I still lurk, so I saw this and posted. Would it make a difference if I had ten thousand posts and posted this? I'd still have the same opinions.