Nostredamus and the incomplete Mayan Calender.
 

I think he got his info for the predictions about the so-called end of the world from the remaining two calenders. Thus making it incomplete or totally inaccurate. I don't even belive he could see the future. My personal thoughts he was suffering from bad water due to microbes and poor sanitation. Another thought is that he was pressured by the Church into writing the half truths. Even if they did have any truth it was a fluke and by chance. What do you think?

First, I would like to point out that it is Nostradamus.
Second, Maya civilization was not the only culture to predict something of significance as to December 21, 2012.
And finally, Nostradamus died off long before the calendars were uncovered.

Are you sure he wasn't sick in the head? How do you know it's the end? Just because someone misread it as the end does it make it a truth?

To me, that date may not be an end, but just in case it is--I'll be having a grand old party on that day. It's an excuse to have a good time--in case my 23rd birthday wasn't enough.

Okay never thought of that.

I didn't know he was an Opium user/Druggie. I wonder what other drugs he had access to?

Nostredamus never predicted the world would end in 2012. He said his predictions would be valid until roughly around 3700 which kinda indicates that we will make it past 2012. The way Nostredamus writes is symbolic and imaginative which leaves prophecies open for interpretation.
The mayan calender is another beast

Or misintrepretation.

We could ask the Mayans, you know. They're still around, and they've dismissed the whole thing as hogwash.

On the subject of Nostradamus, though, I don't see any reason to think he wasn't mentally stable -- he didn't just sit in his tower all day making predictions, he had a normal life and from what we know of him, he was fairly normal. I think we can dismiss the theory that the Church was pressuring him to make his predictions, seeing as how they were critical of the content of quite a few of them, viewing them as too controversial and fundamentalist and likely to cause strife. I think he was just another very intelligent individual who knew how to work people. There have been many throughout history, and the more enduring ones are similar to Nostradamus, in that they knew to keep things mystical-sounding and vague enough that something will undoubtedly happen eventually that sort of sounds like what they said. People want to believe in this stuff, because it supports the idea of Fate, and Fate, while depressing, can also be comforting.

Calebsaur: May I ask what you're referring to? I don't know of any other "end of times" predictions that specify a year, let alone an exact date.

Yeah, it's ambiguous so we can't tell.

Then why are some people saying they are right?
@Saeton I agree.

Saeton: Could you source that, please? Because I'm fairly certain the Mayans didn't "state" anything of the sort and I've never heard that interpretation. I find it highly unlikely, seeing as how they believed they were the only civilization out there, and If they really predicted that, then we have nothing to worry about, as their civilization came to an end long before 2012. Source on the Chinese bit, too. I'm not doubting you on that, as I know very little about Chinese mythology, but I enjoy learning ^^ I am a bit confused as to why you included it, though. Most groups of people have theorized about the end of everything, it seems to be a favourite human pastime, so if it doesn't have the date in common, it doesn't really have anything in common with it at all.

You're far too modest, dear :P

I realize they didn't have the same date, you included that in your original post, but what I'm asking is, what do the two have in common? Is it the date at all? Or the circumstances (I would hope not; badass as the Mayan vision of the apocalypse is, it would be a huge coincidence if two completely separate societies thought it up and I really don't want to get eaten by jaguar-people). The reason I ask is, ever since the Mayan theory picked up steam, people have (often unintentionally) remembered things wrong or added details to sort of manufacture all these different 2012 predictions. They're not bad people, and they usually don't realize they're doing it. I have to ask them to prove it to be sure.

The Mayans regard December 21st, 2012 is the end of the world as we KNOW it... or rather the end of civilization. Look at us now, it's 2010 and the world is falling apart as we know it because of the recession, the war on terror, and more religious wars. There are also rumors floating around that the recession won't end for another 20 years and that if we don't do something soon, WWIII will start.

The world as we know it, where America is a super-powered country and we naively believed that nothing can shake its foundation and the economies won't collapse onto itself is coming into an end. Economic wise China is #2 but because of the current political corruption in it, it's going to eventually collapse onto itself. America will also collapse under the weight of its long LONG recession and debts. The countries that are dependent on our economy will get a harsh reality check.

The world we grew up in, the world we saw prior to 2012 will come to an end. There's no guarantee the USA will stick around, look at Rome...it fell not even after 400 years. Our country is close to 300 years old and it's already having so many problems; we also have pressure because we handle 80% of the world's food supply and 65% of the world's economy. (Taking macro-economics).

We are now going to look forward to more green energy, smaller houses, smaller families, lower birthrates in young people, an abolished social security system, deflation, double-dip recession, maybe some day we will even practice isolationism again =/

So the Mayans were half-right, it IS the end of the world after 2012 if we don't do something FAST. As for Nostradamus, I don't care how he predicted things, if it came true one way or another then he's a prophet. After all, spiritual shamans uses mushrooms and other psychedelics in Africa, and you don't see me telling the African tribes that relying on the shamans is wrong. Alot of the times, what the shamans do there is right.

Nostradamus was a fraud. Just because they use mushrooms and they are from Africa it doesn't mean they are right. No even the Mayan Decendants say it isn't the end.

A) No, no they do not. This has already been covered -- the idea of it being an end to anything is an assumption by non-Mayans.

B) Rumours by whom? Not economic experts or anyone who has any idea what they're talking about.

C) WWIII will eventually happen, there's pretty much no doubt about that. But do you really think it will begin and be at its height by December 21st, 2012?

Recessions don't cause entire countries to collapse. Even the Depression didn't cause our country to collapse. You're being overdramatic.

Source on both those figures?

Wait, why are the first four bad? I can't even imagine how you'd twist green energy and smaller houses into something negative. Smaller families would be a bad thing...if we were living in the dark ages. Overall, infant mortality rates have been drastically decreased, so fewer need to be born to equal the same number of eventual adults. And we're way overpopulated anyway, for the land that's available that we're willing to live on. And the social security system will eventually dissolve, but it will be long after 2012.

Except for the whole 2012 thing. I mean, the Sun will eventually explode, and it'll be after 2012, does that mean that it counts for the whole 2012 thing? No, of course not. The whole idea of the specific date is that that is supposed to be an important date, either the day the world ends or the beginning of a new era or something. Anything that does not relate to that date does not count.

Well it didn't, so I guess we don't have to worry about it! Seriously, though, that's a terrible way of deciding who qualifies as a prophet. People can make educated guesses or vague-enough predictions that they have to eventually come true if you squint hard enough without being able to see into the future.

Not really shamans, and I don't know of any vaguely-shamanic traditions that focus on fortune-telling, so I don't know how this at all relates.

Philomel, I love how you twisted half the things I said into different meanings. I am not going to go into explicit detail on everything I meant and said, but you only got half of the things right. As for some of the sources, I read the news daily ...and most were stuff I actually paid attention to in History and Government class.

What did I twist? Tell me exactly what sections you're talking about. If I did twist anything, it was unintentional -- I responded to them how I read them. Please keep in mind that me reading something as you said it instead of how you meant it is not "twisting your words".

And when I say "source", I mean something I can actually look at and go, oh yeah, these people are reliable and have sourced their findings and I believe them, not where you first heard it.

There's alot of sources on the Internet on this. I'm not going to go out of my way to look them up. When people post something and they don't give a source I look them up myself and THEN I come back to respond. Sorry but I'd expect others to do the same. This isn't a research paper lol just a debate thread.

Also, I'm not going to say which sections you read wrong. Call me lazy or whatever, but I don't want to elaborate a one paragraph response into 5 paragraphs to make SURE that no one gets it wrong.

So in other words, I got it right and you're simply upset that I picked your post apart. And no, you shouldn't expect people to do that. People hear things wrong and remember things wrong and lie. Asking someone to provide a source for what they say is a basic part of debating and limits the amount of BS, ensuring that the people who are simply pulling inflammatory statements out of nowhere are not given the same attention as those who express informed opinions and well-researched points, while also (in theory) keeping people from not only making assertions they cannot back up but using them in debates.

I have a simple question for people who believe in the 2012 phenomenon: Does the world end on December 31st of every year? No, we simply go out and buy a new calendar.

As for Nostradamus, most of his predictions have imagery that is very open to different interpretation, similar to modern horoscopes. I think they were supposed to be open to interpretation, that way he had a higher rate of success. Plus, and this has already been mentioned, he wrote those hundreds of years ago, he predicted things so far out in the future he knew there was no way he would be alive to be held accountable for the accuracy of this predictions.

2010 phenomenon? There's a phenomenon I haven't heard about?

@Philomel: Believe what you want hon, as long as it makes your day.