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replying to admonished nonsense
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true, there are people who react negativly to drugs/alcohol, but in most cases you'll be able to tell if it has that kind of effect and stop inducing it before it gets out of hand. with k2 however, there is no way of really knowing if its going to affect you negativly, until you've tried it, which by that time could already be too late. Quote:
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anyways, to wrap this all up, i think the government should have the right to ban substances that are unpredictable and dangerous, especially when they are being sold in shops and gas stations. there are alot safer ways to get high and fucked up without using k2. i dont think we even have that shit around here in the netherlands, due to weed being legal( and if we do i doubt many people use it). |
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If you weren't trying to be condescending or "point anyone out", then why say anything of the sort anyway? xD You can't just say your piece without 1uping anyone? I mean, it's not like there were a flood of differing opinions anyway, you basically just bashed on most of the posts in the thread. :P The majority of the thread had the same opinion on "stupid kids". We were all stupid kids at one point. Yeah, some companies actually screw up, but the majority of the time, kids know damn well what they're doing. Hell, everyone I knew when I was younger smoked salvia, and it obviously wasn't a good thing from what I witnessed. Most "incense" (Or similar means of "herbal" things kids abuse.) state that it is "not for human consumption". Hell, once kids find out certain health supplements can get you high if used in higher quantities then recomended, you basically hear about it on the news the next day. I used to chug cough medicine and "robo fry" when I was younger, I KNEW it was bad for me, but I wanted to get high. lol My own damn fault, same as anyone else I knew experimenting with easily acquired substances. I don't think kids are any smarter about that crap these days, in fact more and more means of intoxication almost seem to pop up every day. I'm not trying to be a total bitch because you're usually pretty cool, and are usually fun to respond to, but that kind of pissed me off. I'm too not fond of high horse attitudes. Especially just calling a bunch of people on the same thread stupid and ignorant in a super condecending tone, just because they happen to have a differing opinion. Pretty damn sure I'm one of them too. lol But, whatever's clever. No hard feelings, I just had to get it out there. Big pet peeve of mine. xD |
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Wow, this guy is into k2. lol. But i want to see some sort of testing on 2 people or monkeys (yea, that sounds mean but its figuratively speaking lol) one of them will smoke ciggarettes and the other one will smoke potpourri. Then how the two act over the matter of a year of testing. Maybe beginning with an initial test to see the true damages done over the year of testing. But id be more then willing to go to one of these tests, they would probly pay you so much money lmao [XP] |
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i actually was trying to be condescending and point people out, just i did it in a more passive agressive way like everyone always does on menewsha, since a few people on here dislike me for being honest. i was actually mostly talking about the people going "wow, next thing you know they'll ban sugar and coffee!!!" because that pissed ME off. you cant even compare the two. sugar and coffee are perfectly normal things that grow in nature and are harmless, while k2 is some cheap chemical formula used by companies to get rich quick without any thought for the end user and his safety. i still fail to see why kids are stupid for wanting to get high, but thats just me i suppose [:P] especially since this stuff is being sold in stores and gas stations, which would lead one to believe they were relativly safe, which they arent. |
welp, just called the smoke shop that i usually got all my potpourri at, even the legal stuff has been taken away now. So, now i dont have any way to make my damn basement smell non musty. I dont mind it that much but id much rather have it smelling like Blueberry Thrill (my fav scent) Now i have to use incense sticks and that makes my room all smokey. GAH!
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try looking for one of these.
http://www.gamersnet.nl/images/nieuw...right_img1.jpg they work on batteries and the only thing you'll need to do is get it a new bottle once every 2-3 months. and change the batteries from time to time most likely. |
JChanOfTheCan - I believe the way in which minors acquire K2 and similar substances is very important. Yes, I completely agree that there is no way to fully monitor or prevent such illegal transactions from minor to adult. I do not believe banning the product because minors may acquire it through illicit means is not good enough justification. Doing so would be a form of prior restraint. Freedom from prior restraint is one of the fundamental rights protected by the First Amendment.
What principle are you using to justify the prohibition of K2 and similar products? For example, if you could believe that the average person needs humanitarian politicians and bureaucrats to watch over them and protect them you must take that principle to its rational and logical end. Principles are comprehensive and fundamental laws and picking when and where a principle applies negates the very definition of a fundamental law. If the difference of what is right and what is wrong is not based on some fundamental belief but by the whims of those in power, or the majority the very essence of personal liberties and freedoms is a sham. If you contradict your principle in one instance, what keeps you from doing so in another? Remember no act, idea, or principle stands alone. They are all linked. This dilemma is why I believe the freedom of choice with responsibility for one's actions solves many of the dilemmas when it comes to the proper role of government intervention in our lives. One the subject of personal liberty prohibition is not compatible in a free society. Prohibiting acts of violence or drunk driving is one thing because it poses a immediate danger to a third party. But laws that prohibit the use of certain substances such as food, drugs, or alcohol by adults is a dangerous intrusion on personal liberty. To me, prohibitions motivated by busybodies who have a gross misunderstanding of the unintended consequences of attempts to improve other people's habits and character through cohesion. Finally, responsibility for teaching about the dangers of drugs falls principally on the parents. Parents teach their children about the dangers of highways, strangers, high places, stoves, household poisons, swimming, pools, etc. It's their responsibility to warn about all the dangers, including alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, and bad diets. What's more effective a stranger telling you what you should or should not do or your own family? --- Like any substance, alcohol, medical, food, or otherwise there is always a minority that has a adverse and uncommon reaction. The intensity of that girl's reaction was in fact uncommon. Just because a small group of individuals have a negative reaction to a substance does not mean the majority will have one. Should we ban products that contain peanuts at restaurants because a small minority of people are highly and fatally allergic? Even if K2 is potential risky shouldn't it be left to the consumer to identify those risks and react accordingly? This measurement of danger is not uncommon. Every day we measure and react accordingly to the risks. This comes in many forms, the types of cars we drive, whether or not we cross the street, our hobbies, are careers, our diets, our behaviors, and so on. No one denies that drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol can harm users yet people weigh the risks and decide to take them. --- The benefit of a user obtains through the use of particular actions is subjective. Just as with other risky activities like downhill skiing, unhealthy diets, driving on the freeway, or betting on winners and losers in the stock market. The exact nature of the benefit varies across people; some do things for medical purposes, others to look cool, and others because they enjoy being intoxicated. How can you justify someone telling you what you should or should not enjoy? Again, I believe the user should be allowed to decide what risks he/she wishes to take. I not believe it is right to claim that people are not smart enough to make their own decisions. --- I believe most people are made aware of the risks of smoking without ever reading the warning stickers on a cigarette pack. Most smokers know the dangers of the habit yet those risks do not outweigh the benefits. The likelihood of cigarette smoking is also likely. Nicotine is a powerful addiction substance like heroine or cocaine. I would assume per capita that cigarettes pose a greater danger to personal health than K2. Basically, alcohol and smoking is still more dangerous. I believe a cigarette contains somewhere around 7,000 chemicals in it. Of these chemicals hundreds are toxic and some cause cancer. K2 also contains harmful chemicals such a JWH-018, HU-210, and JWH-073. If you believe K2 should be banned because of its harmful properties we then should logically ban cigarettes and similar substances. We know that cigarettes are highly addictive, we know that it causes lung cancer, heart disease, emphysema, and numerous other health problems. Smoking also causes shortness of breath, coughing spells, wheezing, and numerous other immediate effects. You cannot justify saying one potentially harmful activity as morally worse than another. Also, marijuana is harmful. Smoking marijuana can cause the damage to your lungs just like cigarettes. Of course many marijuana smokers probably smoke far less than cigarette smokers. On the other hand marijuana contains several times more harmful substances than cigarettes, including carbon monoxide and tar. THC does not constrain the lungs like nicotine. Even still, Marijuana smokers generally inhale more deeply and longer than cigarette smokers to achieve the high. Like cigarettes smoking marijuana causes damage to the lungs the same cigarettes do. This can lead to bronchitis, emphysema, and lung cancer. Marijuana also increases the heart rate by as much as fifty percent while reducing the supply of oxygen. Not good for you. Furthermore, driving under the influence of marijuana can be as dangerous as driving drunk. The point I am trying to make is marijuana, alcohol, cigarettes, and K2 are all harmful. If you believe the role of the government is to protect people from themselves by that principle we must legalization alcohol, cigarettes, marijuana, and K2 alongside bungee jumping, downhill skiing, and karaoke. You better take my motorcycle away too. It's not about the children, it is about judging one potentially harmful activity as morally worse than another. --- "Now what I contend is that my body is my own, at least I have always so regarded it. If I do harm through my experimenting with it, it is I who suffers, not the state." - Mark Twain Realistically the government does not have the capability to enforce and monitor substances that are unpredictable and/or dangerous. If one of the governments roles is to protect citizens from unpredictable and dangerous events by that principle there are many other far more immediate dangers they should be addressing. I believe alcohol is far more unpredictable and potentially dangerous than K2. Even a small amount of alcohol can weaken someone's reaction times and rational decision making. This can put even a light drinker into many potentially dangerous situations. I do not condone smoking and I do not condone heavy drinking. I do believe that people own themselves. Furthermore, I believe each person is equal so not only do you own yourself, each other person owns himself or herself. So each of us must respect the right of each other person to run his or her own life. I do not believe its right to coheres other people to act as you wish. You have no right to kill them, enslave them, beat them, or steal from them regardless of how much good you think it might do. Even our most urgent desires or good intentions do not constitute a valid moral claim to the life of another person. And that's really what my entire side of the debate is based on. Personally, I don't care about K2. It's legalization or prohibition does not directly affect my life. What I care about is the principle of the matter, because even though the prohibition of K2 and similar substances may not directly affect me the principles that were used to advocate the prohibition of K2 and similar substances may very well harm me. There's many unintended consequences to take into account, not including the likelihood of further infringement of personal liberties in the name of "personal safety." When approaching an issue of legislating the peaceful activities of citizens I personally approach it from the ground up. What are the justifications? What are the costs? Will it be effective? Does it conflict with personal liberties? Does it conflict with the core principles of our laws? So on, and so forth. As soon as you justify the restriction of one activity in the name of some social health you will do another, and another. That's just one of the reasons that makes something as simple as prohibiting synthetic marijuana such a massive and complex issue. Legislation is anything but simple. The laws and justifications surrounding one issue will also bleed into another. History, including America's relatively short one, shows that these sort of laws are never confined to a few instances, but always escalates and grows. So when people say, "the next thing they'll ban is 32oz sodas!" they actually sort of do have a point... we're already seeing it. Regulation always grows, it never recedes. Lastly, I don't think the government makes a very good babysitter. It's never really been effective, cost efficient, and most of all, justified. Anyways, that's just what I think. So... x3 caseyur - Not sure if you were referring to me? I think it's foolish to smoke K2 but meh. Make your own decisions. I think it's foolish to ride a bike without a helmet or drink soda all the time. Doesn't mean I have a right to tell you how to live. |
@Admonished nonsense:
Wow, I wish my brain still functioned properly like that. xD Agreed with everything you said. |
K2 is actually pretty dangerous... And in Michigan, it is available at gas stations sold as "Incense" and they don't even care if you have your ID or not. It's pretty bad. It's kind of sad that the youth of America has decided that smoking Potpourri intelligent. Now we can't even have things smell good. Wonderful.
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