Akasha, there never has been and never will be a time when mere bacteria are somehow equal to a human being, no matter what stage of development he or she is at. It really amazes me how pro-choicers keep denying the simple biological fact that a z/e/f, from the very moment of it's creation, is human. I keep seeing phrases like "parasite", "mass of tissue", "blood clot", "organism", ad infinitum. ANYTHING to deny the truth, it seems. Tell me, if the z/e/f really were one of those, do you think people would fight so hard against abortion? When was the last time you saw someone picketing someone going in to have their tonsils or appendix removed?

Also, the fetus is the ULTIMATE innocent bystander. Women, supposedly, are intelligent enough to recognize the possible consequences of their actions, and hopefully mature enough to deal with it in a way that does not harm another. The fetus did not ASK to be conceived. It did not hover around in midair and cackle evilly "Look, that woman is having sex! I'm going to go invade her body!" It came about because a man and woman made a CHOICE to perform a certain action, knowing full well the possible outcome.

So, Red Calypso, what exactly is it that sets a fetus apart from a bunch of tissue? Because, really, it has no features that make it human. It does not have the capability to live on its own or a human brain. All it has is the same number of chromosomes as a human... but that also holds true for my left pinky, which is decidedly not human.

And, straying off the topic of the current conversation-
Okay, let's say that abortion is made illegal. What are your plans to do with the mothers? How about teenage girls who are still trying to get their high school diplomas, what do you want to do about them? How are you planning to moderate back alley abortion? And what in the world are you going to do with this sudden influx of unwanted babies?

*sigh* Litmus test time again. Fabby, if you cut off your pinky and had it placed in your womb, what would happen? Would you deliver a full term baby in nine months? No, because a pinky is not an individual, living, growing human being. I'm really sorry that there are stages of z/e/f development that you find distasteful, but that's unavoidable biology. Babies are not just going to spring fully developed from your forehead, a la Athena. BTW, by the time most women are aware they're pregnant and go in for an abortion, the embryo/fetus is WAY past the "tissue" stage. http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/ww...ges/Stages.htm

What would happen to the women if abortion was illegal? They would be charged as accessories to murder, with the provider being charged with murder. BTW, as hard as it may be to believe, it's entirely possible to finish high school/college/university if you're pregnant. The solution to help girls stay in school is not abortion, it is providing more support to help keep them there, or to achieve their GED. Back alley abortions? Those have been debunked time and time again, I don't know why people keep bringing them up. This article was written in 1960, well before Roe vs. Wade. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pag...82&pageindex=2 Scroll down the first column to Fact No. 3. It was not legalization that lessened death from abortion, it was the development of antibiotics and advances in medical care. Other cites you might find interesting: http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=2741
http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess.html
Unwanted babies? Unwanted by whom? Provided that the biological mother doesn't choose to keep the baby, childless couples would be lining up in droves to adopt them.

Apparently these people "lining up in droves" don't make their way to the actual children, since the foster care system in this country is already overburdened to the point of cruelty. You'd think with so many people wanting other people's children (as the pro life folk would have us believe) that there would be virtually no unwanted children stewing in orphanages and overladen foster homes.

I see nothing special about a fetus because it has the capability to be human. Having the capability to be human doesn't make it a human, and seeing how we've already gone over it having no human traits, I see no reason why I can't kill it when it is leeching off of my body. Being able to potentially do something is quite far from actually doing it.

Most abortions happen at twelve weeks. Have you seen a 12 week old fetus? It's still just a little ball of tissue.


How can you possibly compare murdering a human in cold blood to aborting a tiny fetus? One feels pain. It has a life, a family, emotions, and it's actually sentient. A fetus doesn't care if you kill it; it has no idea what's going on. A person, however, does. A woman is NOT a murderer for having an abortion, and the doctor is not a murderer either. He's just doing his damn job.

I am aware that it's possible to finish school pregnant or with a child, but it's significantly harder to do your homework with a screaming baby you have to take care of 24/7. Most will end up dropping out. School-age kids don't have the capability, emotionally or financially, to take care of a baby anyway. Why should they be forced to?

People keep bringing them up because desperate women WILL search for an abortion, and they have no idea who is performing it on them. He could be some guy with a coat hanger who has no idea what he's doing, and they end up sterile for life. It will never be as safe as an abortion in a hospital... not to mention the home jobs some women will try.

I absolutely agree with Kinmotsu here. It takes months, years even, for willing parents to receive these children. Most bounce around in foster care until they turn 18 anyway. As it is right now, there are certainly not parents "lining up in droves" to take in these children. Why do you think it'll get any better when thousands more are dumped into a system incapable of caring for them?

Abortion is basically murder in my opinion. You're cutting off someone's chance at life.

As for if it would be dangerous... that's why there's something called a C section.

As for if you can't afford it, put it up for adoption.

Taking away a chance at life is not the same thing as taking a life.

But what about the unwanted pregnancy bit? I personally have no desire to carry around a child I fully intend to give up for nine months, and I know many women agree with me. Plus, you're just dumping them into a system where there's a good chance they will be miserable.

Okay, to the first, you're actually suggesting that a Cesarean section (a serious surgery) is somehow less dangerous than an abortion?

To the second, the cost of prenatal care from conception to birth is in excess of $10,000 and rising in this day and age. Who's going to pay it? Certainly not you the taxpayer.

No, an innonccent victim would mean it has to be sentinent, with brain fuction, and existing on it's own. It stead it is a clump of cells with a potiental to be a human being.

And just because a fetus is a possible action, an abortion is taking responsibility for those actions. it is taking care of what was already desired to be prevent and unwanted.

Second, even if abortions did become illegal, as your lovely article pointed out, they will stll be doctors who do them, simply because they know a women will do everything in her power to seek one out, for those who want them.

And, if you really want you innocent victims, just think of the rise of infantcides that will pop up from making them illegal.

And, how to do you propose paying for all these women and teenagers, if you make abortions illegal, to be able to get proper prenatal care and paying for their extra needs, because pregnancy makes it a real bitch to work or go to school.

And finally, where are you going to find homes for all these unwanted children, if abortion were to be made illegal. As it stands, the foster care system is already over burden, orphanges are also the same.

I am Pro-Choice,
even though I was given up for adoption and my birth mum didnt want to abort me
because my birth father wanted me dead.

I had an abortion when I was 15, I am turning 20 in Sept.
When I told my parents, they were shocked and sad for me.
My mum nearly said that she would raise it as her child and it wouldve been my sibling.
But I cracked at that thought, I knew that sooner or later, the child would have to know who the real parents were and I could not bear the thoughts that I imagined going through my childs head. He/She would be utterly damaged from being lied to for the amount of time that it was led to believe I was their sister. I couldn't do it.
My abortion took place on December 9th 2k3 at 0930am.

Now before you start to question as to why I didnt have protection at the time, let me explain.

The boy that I was dating was so utterly abusive to me in a way that I am sure a few women here could understand.
Hitting me, telling me it was for me own good so I could learn something from it.
Bringing me down because I wasnt superior to him at all.
Leaving bruises that would stay for weeks.
Having to tell people I was clumsy or I tripped.

As for protection, he didnt like the thought of it, and for me being 14 at the time, I didnt really know too much about it so I just went along with what he said.

When my mum tried to give me birth control pills, which now I am glad to state I have been using for 5 years, he threatened to destroy them.

He did not want me taking them because he was afraid of the side effects and I was the one taking them.

After I had my abortion, it literally killed a piece of me.
I burned two roses that day.
One was red, symbolizing the blood I had shed in those moments.
One was white, symbolizing how my child was pure and untouched by the worlds tainted embrace.
I drew a picture too, it was of me holding a baby.
On it I wrote to my dead child

"Please forgive me for I could not keep you.
Its my fault, but now my darling you will be in eternal peace. "



That is my story. If you really want to have a debating faces on Abortion rights, the people that are curious, should listen to some of the stories that the women who have had abortions and hear what they have to say. A lot of the time it really turns heads as to how different or how similar each one's story is. It can sometimes give you a better look as to what some others have to go through because each environment is different for each person.
The only way that we all have one thing in common is that we all looked for something to shelter us and give us support in either a hospital, planned parenthood, or other similar clinics.

I'll stop there, I feel I have ranted enough.

here's a question

would you abort a pregnancy to save the life of your already existing child?

What point are you trying to make, Ali? That scenario doesn't really have any basis on this discussion. Or have a likelihood of happening either. o_O

I think she's trying to revive the thread. It tends to move in little fits and bursts.. >_>

Well, a lot of kids today are unplanned for.

But I'd feel like shit if I knew that my mother didn't want me and was just forced to have me.

I wouldn't really feel bad if I found out I was a mistake. Even though a lot of kids aren't planned for, most parents don't regret it anyway. It wasn't planned, but that doesn't necessarily make it bad.

I'd feel utterly awful if I realized that I was the product of a rape, though. The idea that my father was a rapist and I was a symbol of my mother's violation is awful.

Is there ever a good reason why the person should EVER kill a born or UNBORN child? I think that abortion should be illegal. I mean, people out there that abortion unborn babies are killing other people's hopes of having a kid when they are being abortioned. Some people will want a child that they can't have, so hey look. If someone was raped they don't have to kill a baby if they don't want it. All they have to do is basically ive birth and wiat for someone to adopt.

Actually many women have abortions to make sure they can provide and take care of an already existing child. Another one means not being able to feed to everyone or buying clothes for some family's.

@inkhart - And you know, right now there are millions of children and babies needing and wanting loving homes right now. Those people who so want to have a family and can not have kids can go an adopt them. Oh, wait those kids are not cute little white newborns. They are a minority or special needs kids and so they get tossed to the side and get no Love.

Really, if these great people who can't have kids and want to adopt can adopt one of the millions who needs a home right now. Instead they choose to let living children suffer and feel unloved.

Inkhart, there are a lot of good reasons to abort. Like not being able to take care of a baby and not wanting to go through pregnancy.

If couples want a child that badly, they can suck it up and adopt a child who has a mental disability or who is black or is five. There are SO many children in the system already, why add more?

Maybe I let myemotions get in he way and I'm sorry. I just come from a background where I have been taught that abortion is wrong, because you are destroyng LIFE. It doesn't matter if the baby is born or unborn you are in essence destroying LIFE. A baby may be unborn, but techniccally speaking it is living through the moher's air and food whilein her stomach. I guess I just get a little sensitive on subjects like that and I'm sorry.

Inkhart, if you get very touchy and emotional about the subject, it's best to just avoid it.

@Pikapi-- You have an adorable username. >w<;;
Besides that, what's wrong with aborting just because you don't want the child? Motherhood should never be forced upon someone. Even if they can support it, why should they have to?
Now, most abortions are because of the reasons you listed but nonetheless those who do not wish to have a child should not be forced to.

You're welcome. >w<

Admittedly she should have taken more responsibility. It kind of annoys me when women get abortions just because they were stupid, but I am very much against denying them the right to do so. I think most people think the decision of pregnancy through before they decide to anyway, so I doubt the decision of consciously getting knocked up then aborting happens often. I imagine it's an accident.