Meh... I never said reproducing is a natural instinct and just dragging it towards homosexuality or any sexuality is just wrong. Please read slowly for I am writing slowly don't jump in to conclusions. I'm just saying instincts get kicked in when looking after someone so small and helpless... normally kicks in... un-normally you just kick the kid.... which means... you are ... crazy... maybe?... or maybe the kid deserved it? :P

And I'm sorry to say governments always have the responsibility of taking care of its future youth. That is how the system works. If you don't take responsibility than the future won't vote for you (unless you have this super-duper indoctrination system for children) And when I'm saying responsibility of the government I am of course talking of parent education classes, health classes for would be parents and so on... They don't have to be free...(TANSTAAFL) However the government should at least organize them. (since no one will. Even if they do it is usually small scaled)

And as for BC; sue the fricken company :D that is why we have lawyers... I will throw in some sort of union for these kind of cases so they would have solid lawyers (the parent will have solid lawyers)

Ah.. and yes TANSTAAFL is "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

peace!

Condoms or other contraceptives may not work. The pill is only 99% effective, and I believe the morning after pill is only 70% effective? You can take all the precautions in the world, and there is still no way to prevent pregnancy 100%.

Not wanting a baby does not mean you are mentally ill.
Perhaps the woman is simply not in a place in her life to handle a baby. Maybe she already has a few kids and doesn't feel prepared to take on another one. Maybe she's still getting through school and doesn't have time for college and a baby. Maybe she's in a bad relationship and doesn't want to bring a child into it. There are a million reasons for terminating pregnancy that are perfectly valid.

You'd lose. It says, blatantly, on the box, that it is NOT 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. No one is trying to hide that fact. Plus, you can't prove that you didn't take the pill incorrectly.
(And as Kah pointed out, suing the company won't make your baby poof)

Well, I'm a bit biased on this subject. My mother works for the biggest abortion clinic in my state. She's a bookkeeper, nothing more. I personally believe that abortion should be left to the mother. I'd love to add "and the father" to the end of that but it's really not feasible. If both parties don't agree then it's a bad situation all around. So I leave it to the mother considering the fact that it's her body, not his.

Anyways, abortion should be a choice for the girl/woman involved. No outside force, not including medical input, should be considered. If a girl/woman wants to have an abortion, let her. Sure it may not be the best choice but it's still her choice.

Anti-Abortion activists seem to miss this part. They try and force their views onto people without considering or caring that it's not their damn body.

While I said that they should sue the company I never meant that all will be alright. But at least expenses would be covered.(health and stuff)

Meh...

I am not against abortion nor for it... I just like rules... Too much of an engineer in me defies chaos and part of me want it so much... :D

@Kah Hilzin-Ec you say that children must not choose if they choose you give too much power to them... or I understood something around those lines... I just want to say... If your child is old enough to have sex he/she is in the age of learning that actions have consequences. If you continuously protect you child from all dangers of the world than when should you child grow? Just by being protective you just push the inevitable to another date... By teaching and indoctrinating you will achieve success in shaping your child. You just have to find a way to brain wash you child. :D ( by the way please don't flame me because I'm talking of brainwashing )

Anyways... Just a couple questions :

1-) When do you think that the child is alive? Right after sex? or 9 months later? or 2 years later?
2-) If you believe that the child is alive during pregnancy is there not something wrong in wanting to kill it? If there isn't than please answer question 1 I really want to know. ( I am just curious not judging)
3-) If you don't believe the child is alive during the pregnancy and believe that killing it is not wrong : Under what conditions would you want to have a baby if ever?
4-) If you never want to have a baby (adopting included) whose hand would you want to hold at the very end (when you are dying)?

These questions are all related to abortion. Let me give you an example on why by answering them my self.

1-) I believe the child is alive when his brain is formed enough to respond to vocal, light based or touch based stimuli. Which is about 4-5 months within pregnancy. ( Don't really know... but it's about the time when you make it listen to Beethoven and it calms down.) I believe as such because well... a bug is alive and gives something around the same responses. Shuns away from light and so on...

2-) I believe killing a being is just when your life is in danger or they are in immense pain. And also killing someone for self defense is also just. So killing a 4-5 month old baby is just if it's killing you. OR killing it because when it is born it will suffer is also just.

3-) -
4-) -

The above questions and answers are here to make you understand where I 'm coming from. I do accept that there are times when you HAVE TO HAVE an abortion. However because I'm no omnipotent being I may never know what all those conditions are. The 6 conditions I gave you were just an outline and NOT for individual cases ( or hypothesis i.e. I don't know what should be done if your rich thirty year old daughter wants an abortion ) However I believe in the word of law. And that humans will somehow (be it imperfect) will be able to come to some sort of decree that all will hate (hey no one is perfect).

P.S. I know abstinence won't work (look at Sarah Palin daughter who got knocked up by a hokey player. :roll: ). That is also one the reasons why I'm for abortion. :)

I believe the embryo is alive at the point of conception. It's definitely organic, it's definitely living. But does that make it a person, worthy of all the rights humans get? No, not really. It is alive and human, but not a person, and that is the crucial point.
And since it is not a person, I don't see anything particularly morally wrong with removing it any more than I find cutting my grass morally wrong. It does not think or feel... it just hurts the mother. In my eyes, she is more important than a ball of cells.

I don't think it's right to have an abortion after, give or take, 24 weeks simply because the fetus is viable. (The exception, of course, being medical reasons.)

(By the way, I would want to have a child later in life when I am prepared to take care of said child. Until then, I would prefer my options remain open. And yes, I would want them to hold my hand on my deathbed. xD)

A point you have yet to make clear.
But, an answer for the sake of answering.

Just saying "child-free" is very vague and general. Being "child-free" may not necessarily mean that the couple do not want children. They could be trying for a child.

But I am going to assume you mean a couple who have both chosen that they do not wish to have children.

No. Don't limit them to oral and cyber (I can't see why a couple would cyber anyway?) in order to have safe sex. If they have both decided that they do not want children then there are methods of preventing pregnancy. Like a vasectomy. Sterilization.

Surely, in the long run, either of these methods would be much cheaper than continuous birth control?
As well as being much more effective?

You're right, Kah. Most doctors will flat-out refuse to sterilize you if you haven't already had a couple of kids. It's not a law, doctors just want to cover their own asses against people who get sterilized then regret it. :\

To my personal view of abortion, is that it is wrong. and even though the law says it's not murder, I believe that it is. I heard one of my friends today say "as long as it's a living cell or organism, it's an animal to me. Except for plants... plants aren't animals." [We were debating whether bugs were animals or not]

To me, I agree.

A fetus, at the age of eight weeks inside the womb already has hands, feet, and a brain. Also by this time, the fingers and toes are separated, and the heart is beating. Finger prints are also visible. By week nine, the fetus is already using it's limbs, complex motor skills in its body are being practiced by the day. Yawns, stretches and even sign of hiccups. A touch to the fetuses toe will result in it moving its leg away from what ever touched it, same with the hands. At Week nine through twelve the face is fully formed. At week sixteen through twenty five the eyebrows, eyelashes, fingernails, and toenails have all been developed on the body of the fetus. By week twenty six to thirty eight the bones have become hardened, but still somewhat soft. Hair starts to grow and become thicker and more coarse. Fingernails reach the end of the finger tips, and the fetus is considered "healthy enough to live outside the womb" or, "full term"

To me, I believe that you should have a right to give up the baby for adoption, even if it is a rape victim. It's not the child's fault, why does it deserve to die for it fathers actions? It has done nothing wrong, but grow to live.

If you are in danger of dying if you go through a pregnancy, you should be able to terminate it, but very early on, before it starts developing fully. And even then, you should consider a C-Section.

Adoption is a huge possibility for teenage mothers, "a twelve year old can't take care of herself let alone a child" there shouldn't be pregnant twelve year old in the first place and even if there was, adoption is always an option. There are hundreds of people who can't get pregnant and want to adopt a child.


Personally, I think Abortion is murder. It's taking away the baby's rights, Here is an example of why I think it's murder, even though the law says it's not. [my opinion] A man goes and kills a woman. It's murder correct? He took away that woman's rights, that woman's life, the woman's family will never see her ever again. Her children, parents, lover [if she has one]. Now, why is it any different for a woman to go to the doctors, and kill a living organism that in nine months will be a full blown human being. The same as you and me, hands, feet, brain, eyes, a smile, a personality, hair, teeth.

I consider a fetus to be a human being. Just one that's in development. Like a house, do you consider a construction site useless and something that can be tossed out just because someone is building a house there but haven't finished the frame? No, because you know, in a couple of months, the frame will be up, the sheet rock will be on the frame, paint, nails, carpet, a roof, and everything to make a beautiful home, will be there.

Why take away a life even if it isn't fully developed yet? That life has done nothing to deserve it.

@BondageDucky-
Furthermore, the median rate of adoption is at about 87%, meaning 13% of children never achieve permanent homes. The adoption rate certainly isn't going to go UP if abortions stop happening. What the hell are we supposed to do with all these kids?

I think Abortion shouldn't be allowed. There's always adoption, and yes a mother has to give up the baby and that may cause "mental damage"... but wouldn't Killing it? When you put the child up for adoption... you still can have a chance to meet the kid.

At least if the child is put up for adoption they can maybe go to infertile parents who want children.

As for involuntary pregnancy, like the birth control not working, but there are pills and such you can get in case of that happening (morning after pills?), so it would be more as laziness to not prevent the pregnancy whether r*pe or by accident, there are almost always ways to prevent the pregnancy.

As far as I'm concerned, the only reason a person should be allowed to get an abortion is if the baby is going to cause death to the parent before it is at an age where it can survive out of the womb. If not, I feel that it would be more reasonable to let the child have a chance at life and to be able to live with a family that wanted to adopt.

@Kaze- A few posts up I have some statistics about adoption, and how we wouldn't be able to handle the influx of unwanted kids. Parents are really, seriously NOT lining up in droves to take these kids.
Personally, if I gave a child up for adoption I probably wouldn't WANT to meet it later on. For many, the idea of an abortion is far less traumatizing than actually going through with the pregnancy and then giving it up- both are crappy options, really, but obviously if the woman didn't think abortion was best she wouldn't be having one. (Hopefully, anyway.)

The morning after pill is not 100% effective, and for people under eighteen it's prescription only. It's not laziness if everything that can go wrong does.

True not all birth control is 100%... but abstinence is a 100% chance of not having children. If people avoided the act in the first place there wouldn't be so many children being aborted or put up for adoption.

Aside from r*pe it is the fault of the parents that they're having a kid. If they were abstinent they wouldn't have to make that choice to begin with.

First of all, asking some couples to be abstinent is downright ridiculous. Sex is not just for procreation and it hasn't been for years.

And really, you can tell people that it's their fault and they should have been abstinent until you're blue in the face. Do you think that's going to make people stop having sex, and unwanted pregnancies stop happening? This brings me back to the point of how are you planning to deal with those kids?
Higher taxes will buy them food, but it won't stop them from being miserable, and it won't stop the problem of rapid overpopulation.

I'm pro-life, but I'm not your typical pro-lifer. For instance, I'm not Christian and I'm against capital punishment.

I am completely, passionately, against using abortion just as a means of birth control in the case of someone just being irresponsible. I have 3 daughters of my own, and not a single one of their births were planned, but I viewed the situation as a result of my own negligence with the first and third child, as I was not as careful as I should have been. And, to be honest, I was in the worst possible place when I was pregnant with my 2nd daughter and, had I been a different person, I probably would not have kept the pregnancy. Well, actually, I was suicidal at the time and I wouldn't have stopped myself, I think. I have the outlook that children are originally innocent and that thought kept me alive - for her sake.

But I think there are a lot of gray areas where I haven't really come down on one side of the fence or another.

For instance, I would never abort, even if I were raped. But I've never been raped and I can't imagine what it would feel like to know that the child of your rapist was inside of you, let alone raise that child too. I'd never be able to point my finger at a woman who aborted for a reason like this and say that she was automatically a horrible person for doing it.

I think the most important thing that can possibly be done is to increase sexual awareness and education along with increasing access to affordable birth control. I don't think abortion will ever go away but I think there are a lot of things we can do to make it happen less often.

@Arousal:Your right!
I think abortion should be allowed only with good reasons.
Someone who didn't use protection has to face the consequences.
On the other hand, A women who was raped, it's just a kid/teen,shes sick or even too poor should be allowed to have an abortion.

I think it is better to abstain to begin with. But if you dont then you should have the choice to have one or not. I think it is crueler to bring an unwanted, soon to be unloved, negected and abused child into this world. Life is cruel enough. Children born to parents who dont want them suffer for it all their lives. Also if it wasnt legal we would again have women dying from botched abortions.