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No problem. :P
But you're right, it would still be wrong to deny her an abortion, especially since her life was in danger. |
I think it is wrong in every way. But of course, I do not think it should be illegal.
I do not believe "aborting" your child should even come to mind when considering your options concerning an unwanted pregnancy. Reading through this thread.. I am appalled. :( This whole abortion debate needs to be SCRAPPED. The "It's her body, she should choose." argument is silly. The fetus is not her body, though it may be living inside her it is a completely different human being. Making it illegal is silly as well for reasons already mentioned in this thread. Instead we must face this issue head-on: Why are these women so desperate they resort to having abortions? And what can we do to help them? Each side of the abortion debate keeps ignoring this key problem! Again, making it illegal will not solve the problem as not everyone is financially or mentally prepared for having a child. And also, more risky ways of performing an abortion will be attempted, which can be deadly to both mother & child. I must also say that abortion itself can be detrimental to the mother, not physically but mentally. Most women who have had an abortion say they feel extremely guilty & sometimes face depression because of it. I say more programs need to be implemented for mothers who are in need of support during & after their pregnancy. Help them get the financial aid they need, and also the mental support to help them through this difficult time. Telling them to shut up and deal.. is not going to work. =/ Of course, this will not solve everyone's problems. I know that. There will still be those who resort to having an abortion because no other option is available to them.. But, perhaps... this will actually help someone? |
A couple things was brought up that had good points. I'm not one to toot my own horn with out listening to other people's and considering what they say. So I will respond to the things directed towards me about what I said.
I never once said it was not OK for a woman to stay pregnant despite a medical emergency that would request she have an abortion. I think I even said that I didn't know of one but if there is one speak up and explain. Meaning that just cause I didn't know of any didn't mean there wasn't any. Most of the ones I did know of that made having babies dangerous to your health was unexpected issues saw later on in the last trimester. My cousin had a heart condition and didn't know it till she got pregnant. I sympathize with that sort of thing cause she struggled with the whole process. However she didn't get an abortion. They have medications you CAN take now to help with that. She also had surgery while pregnant to fix the hole in her heart. While not all countries are the same. I cant speak for every person in every country expecting to get the same sort of answer. But I can say that in America there is plenty of financial aid to help people in poverty. When you get pregnant in the USA we have free insurance that covers it all. Expecting mother shelters for homeless people, food stamps, WIC, HUD homes, Family's First, free GED classes and tests, the options are limitless. There is no reason why anyone in the USA should be unable to care for themselves and a child. My first daughter was the result of multiple rapes from one man. I wont go into great detail but I was with a man that I had loved for a few years. After I moved in with him he changed and I had no other family to go to cause my parents were on drugs and living in a very decapitated home (they refused to do better for themselves). Anyways my ex changed from knight in shining armor that swooped me up and took me away from that life with my parents. Then after he had me there living with him he showed his true colors, started cheating on me and abusing me. He had me convinced I had no way out and in a way I didn't, I was a teenager, and when I stopped being affectionate with him and grew to hate him he resorted to raping me. I was on birth control too and after a while I was unable to get more birth control cause he wouldn't let me leave the property. And I couldn't walk all the way to town which was an hour away in car. So I ended up pregnant. However I love my daughter and care for her. After I had her it was the courage and push I needed to get out of that situation. It was hard, I had to get a lot of financial aid cause I was still a teen, had no where to live, no job, no license to drive and no money. But we are now good and I'm glad that I had her. So I cant totally agree with the women raped thing. But nore can I disagree with it. Cause I think I handled it pretty well, while some women do not. |
Truthfully, getting an abortion is a very heavy decision. I don't think any pregnant woman would take it lightly. Not to mention, abortion is really hard on the body, so it's not like people are using it as a means of birth control. I think that they shouldn't be so hard on abortion really. Human beings are WAY over populated anyways. We need to have something to counter balance the fact that more people are being born and less people are dying. Not saying that that will fix the problem, but it's a start. |
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Honestly, could you BE more apathetic?! [/quote]However I love my daughter and care for her. After I had her it was the courage and push I needed to get out of that situation. It was hard, I had to get a lot of financial aid cause I was still a teen, had no where to live, no job, no license to drive and no money. But we are now good and I'm glad that I had her. So I cant totally agree with the women raped thing. But nore can I disagree with it. Cause I think I handled it pretty well, while some women do not.[/QUOTE] Congratulations for YOUR choice for YOUR body and YOUR future. But what is good for you is not good for everyone. Also, you conveniently ignored the rest of my post. Care to answer it? Quote:
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I think the question you should be asking yourself is "how come I didn't know of any of these things. I was on free health care when I got pregnant with both my kids and everyone who doesn't have health care can get it for free when pregnant. Children can also get free health care till they are the age of 21 with the right steps taken. You can even get free dental and eye care. Just cause you don't know of it doesn't mean it simply does not exist.
Your asking me if I read all of your post but maybe you should read the end of my post that you so conveniently quoted for me. Here let me repost it for you. Because not every woman is the same mentally I said ... "So I cant totally agree with the women raped thing. But nore can I disagree with it. Cause I think I handled it pretty well, while some women do not." Meaning, that I cant agree or disagree that it is acceptable to get an abortion in the chance that you was raped. Since not all are mentally capable of taking care of a child that was produced from an act of rape. Now for the rest of your post which I thought was pretty much answered in previous responses from me. If you have a condition where you SHOULDN'T be having children but still want to have sex. Then you usually have a hysterectomy. Its usually a very strict rule for any doctor treating you for something like that to require you to get one. A Skitzo would be one of the candidates for that solution. And if you started having issues during the pregnancy like bleeding and abdominal pain, related to a Topical Pregnancy. Then its not really a choice you can make. I think the issue that was started here in this thread has been ignored and bogged down with all these what ifs. The original question was pretty much based on women who just don't want to have children. Not women that cant due to whatever illness they may or may not have. |
Ohhkay then, tell me, if a totally healthy, on the good end of the economical scale, married, in the best age to get pregnant woman, gets pregnant, but she doesn't want it so she decides to get an abortion [and I mean she must be ohh so against having children cause abortion is such a hard decision], what makes you think she'll treat her unwanted children right if she's denied it, or worse, that she'll die from attempting to have one in uncontrolled places?
And if she's "stupid" enough to get pregnant from forgetting to use a condom, what makes you think her anger will make her responsible enough to be a caring mother? I'm sure they would take having children as society's punishment on her, not a blessing like children should be seen as. Just like some rape victims can't get over the trauma, some women just aren't emotionally ready [and some will probably never be] to have children, to be responsible and to love them like an ideal mother should be. |
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I still must rely on her for shelter & food, does that give her the right to "abort" me because she does not want to continue to care for me? |
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Actually, yes. If she doesn't want to care for you anymore, she doesn't have to and there isn't really any way to force her to. Have you not heard of parents kicking their kids to the streets? |
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Firstly, you seem not to realize the trauma that comes with being raped. You cannot simply call a person "cold hearted" after such an event, because said event can cause physiological disorders within the person. I am not justifying abortion for those who are rapped, I am simply stating that the issues of such a case are more complex then you might think. My view on the subject? Yes, the parent should give birth, but should be allowed the option of adoption. Why? Because I believe life has value, no matter how small, though that is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Moving on. Secondly, there are women in this world who cannot give birth without a possibility of death because birthing is extremely taxing on the body. If a woman is to weak, or has a defect of some sort it is a possibility that she could die when giving birth. Ever wondered by women in the past BEFORE medical technology advanced, always either 1) died 2) baby died or 3) baby and mother died. Hm? |
I have had an abortion. Yes, I was raped, but that didn't make my decision any easier or hareder really.
And for those that are going to harp on me for MY decision... rot in hell. Abortion is not something I think ANYONE takes lightly. It's a difficult choice, even for those that have every right to not want the spawn of some detestable male growing within them. It took me a lot of soul searching and therapy to get through the many variables that I had to weight for my final decision. Abortion is hard on everyone involved and isn't exactly cheap. So for those saying that women use abortion as a birthcontrol... I think you're effed up in the head. $400-1,000 is not my idea of a good cost efficient way of birthcontrol. Not to mention the dangers involved and the pain. Both emotional and physical. Abortion is a very personal deicision. Those not involved in that decision making, should mind thier own business. You wouldn't want someone telling you not to do something that you feel is in your best interest, so don't try telling someone else. It's quite hypocritical. |
I would rather see a woman or girl get an abortion than see them have a child they dont want and cant take care of. In the end the child will grow up being neglecting, abused or worse.
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You're take on things is sensible. Personally I don't like the thought of extracting a human being (even dead) out of someone. then that child wouldn't even have a chance to experience living, which to me is saddening. But if the person who is doing the abortion was raped, then I think it's sensible to do the abortion.
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I'm sorry but I really don't think I could love a child that I conceived through rape. I mean it would be a living breathing reminder of the incident. It's not that I don't like kids, it's just I think that we should be able to choose without being accused of being a bad person.
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Born or unborn, a baby is still a living thing and I think it's murder.
Say your mother tried to have an abortion but it didn't work out right and you were born anyway...how would it make you feel to know that she tried to kill you before you were born? |
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Besides, this is an appeal to emotion, and therefore, a logical fallacy. |
Oh, I didn't know you couldn't say something like that in a debate.
Hm...I still think that even if it is a fetus, it would be a person someday. If you make sure that it doesn't survive, then it seems like killing to me. |
So in no situation, Kaema, is it viable to kill a fetus? No situation AT ALL?
So not even if the mother's life is endangered because of the birthing process? On every single front, it's killing a life, isn't it? If the mother kills the fetus or if the fetus kills the mother? Well with that sort of view, there would be a number of children growing up with no mother, knowing they've MURDERED thier mother because aborting a fetus is illegal due to too many people putting thier nose where it isn't needed. But that's my opinion. Abortion is a personal matter, those not involved should stay the hell out of it. Debate: a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints. Which is all opinions are. There can be factual information provided by both sides, but when it boils down to the heart of it, it's all opinionated. |
[N]ightmare:
If a fetus killed the mother, it wouldn't be on purpose...although I do agree that it would be horrible for a child to grow up knowing their mother died because of them. This thread was to say your views about abortion, so that's what I did. But now I'm thinking that debate threads aren't the right place for me. I don't want to make anyone upset or offend anyone, and I'm sorry if I just did. |
Not offended, I just like to put all ideas out there.
You say that it's killing to abort a fetus, so I just provided more scenarios for you to think about. That's another think debates are about. Providing more facts to solidify views. Though it does take a strong sense of self, to retain ones beliefs no matter what the opposing side says. While I do see your point and agree to an extent that it is killing a life, I still believe that a woman has every right to choose what happens to HER body. That is my view on this debate. Abortion is like drugs, in some ways. Some people view drugs as only harmful and wrong. Therefor meaning all forms of drugs should be illegal. Whereas others on the opposite extreme feel it is thier body and they should be allowed to put into it anything they wish. Then there are those in the mid ground on the debate. Those that feel in some instances, for some reasons... it should be okay. Same concept is applied to the debate on abortion and any other debate really. |
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It's possible for the pill to not work, so a fetus could technically survive being "aborted" if the abortion fails somehow. But clearly if your mother chose not to continue with a second abortion after the first one fails, they had a change of heart and actually do want and love you. It's no more a miracle that you're alive than it is that one specific sperm and specific egg that came together to create you to begin with. |
It's every womans right to decide if they want to keep the baby or not.
I'm for abortion. |
I dont think that a mother that had a failed abortion would tell her child that. And if she is that type of woman then how different is that than telling a child you dont love them or wished they were never born? I dont think what if a child found out about it is a reasonable defense against it. There are many people out there that do worse to a child than trying to get an abortion. At least at that stage they dont know what is happening. Unlike an unwanted abused child that is beaten to death by one of its parents after long time abuses. I think that is crueler.
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I believe they should be legal, but only for those who NEED it. The same as the first poster stated, women who were raped, women who are way too young and it will be a risk to their life if they carry a child. But even as that goes, there should be a limit on it. You should not be allowed to get more then one abortion. That is just being childish. Anyone who uses it as birth control should not be allowed to get one.
But the thing is, they can't really legalize it and have a list of rules for it. Because some girls will be stupid and say they got raped even though they are just careless. That would not be right. I don't think it is possible for a fetus to survive an abortion and be born anyway. If so it would most likely be born with many complications. But if it was, it's not that the mother who wanted an abortion wanted the baby killed, it's that she didn't want it to have any chance of a non-perfect life. Long story shortened, finally, if someone was to get an abortion, it should only be if they can't take care of a baby themself and they have no means of anyone providing anything for it. Otherwise they shouldn't have sex or they should do it protectively. |
@Autumn Lily- Do you really want women who use abortion as birth control reproducing? How responsible as parents do you honestly think they're going to be? :\
You should only be allowed one abortion... on the same vein, if you're in more than one (bad) car accident should we NOT give you life support because clearly you're a danger to the road and just didn't learn the first time? If someone is having an abortion, clearly they cannot take care of the baby. Even if you personally disagree with their reasons, they are having an abortion because they are not prepared to be parents. Being financially prepared/at a certain age does NOT make you any more ready to be a parent than a poor 13 year old girl. ALSO: Abortion failure stuff Yes, it is possible for an abortion to fail; and yes, fetal defects are higher in those particular children. |
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