@Fabby: DDD: why wouldn't people want to adopt an adorable little girl from asia? I think asians are just so adorable. One of my sister's best friends was adopted from China, and I've always thought her to be one of the cutest little girls ever. Besides, it pulls these girls out of a terrible environment and gives them a loving family that they would never get back in the country they were born in because asian girls are the ones who primarily go up for adoption because girls aren't considered as important as boys are. It's quite sad, really, and I think a lot of those girls end up being pulled into prostitution...I'm not positive about that though...

I'm a little confused why people want to adopt children from other countries when there are half a million children in the US who need homes.

Molly: Me too.

There's no point in adopting from somewhere else. I'm sure you can find children of every ethnicity right here in the states.

I particularly abhor private agencies that basically do nothing but import children. They aren't rescuing them half of the time either--there are several agencies that KIDNAP infants because the demand for foreign children is so high in America. People want to feel like they're "saving" a child from a shitty life or starvation or something like that, and that's not the truth at all.

If you want a foreign-looking child, fine, but don't go out of the country to find one.

Many times, people look at the quality of lives which the children live. The children in adoption agencies here do not have happy lives, but certainly they will have better lives than the children in Russia or in most countries in Africa.

There's also the fact that it is extremely hard to adopt children from certain countries.

I remember going to the hospital with my boyfriend (now ex) who was having outpatient surgery. I sat with him throughout the billing consultation, and we were both floored when he was informed that it was going to cost $15,000-20,000 for a relatively short procedure.

I said, "Jesus, it's like you're having a baby!" and the woman being the counter actually cut me off and said, "No, that would be more like thirty, thirty-five k." That stuck with me. For $35,000, I'd just squeeze it out myself!

How about you READ whats been written. I don't BELIEVE that women should have abortions. I NEVER said that there should be a law written against it. I still believe in this being a free country. And because of that, I think that people should have the right to choose what they want to do weather I feel it is right or wrong. I am in the military. I fight for people to be able to make those choices. There are some places in this world where people aren't so fortunate in being able to make such decisions.

There have been some good points brought out in this debate. But it looks like few people are waaaay too offended by opinions that don't match their own. So I'm backing out of this one, lest anyone else decide to attempt and fry me over the coals for stating my beliefs. I don't think that women should get abortions. I am sticking to that belief. And there is nothing you can do or say to make me change my mind!

Yes, PLEASE check the states first. I'm Japanese. My brother and sister are both half Japanese. When we where young we had 3 chances at adoption, none went well, probably because of our ages, and in the end, the state agent recommended we stay with our mother in a homeless shelter.

People don't LOOK for american kids, and I really don't know why. There are ethnic children in the US, but it always goes one of two ways. People want the perfect white child that they can claim as their own, or they want a foreign child that they have to work 10 times as hard to get and pay 10 times as much money for.

And no, it's not cheaper to import, and the legal systems of foreign countries are hard to navigate, so you'll need a lawyer. And there's a chance you'll be spending week or months over seas waiting for the paper work to go through. If you already have your own children, this isn't going to happen, is it? I'm not sure what gave you the idea it was easier.


What I'm curious about is what a person sees in a foreign child that makes them so adoptable. Why people feel compelled to take in Asian children, African children. Are they just cuter? Or are people under the assumption that because they don't live in America, life must be reaaalllyyy bad, and they're more deserving of a loving home then an american child? I don't want to sound heartless, but it seems more like people want to feel like they're doing something good, and adopting a black American kid just doesn't look as wholesome at Sunday school as adopting a black African kid.

i think it's should always be the women's choice and no one should belittle them for it. I for one would rather see a women have an abortion then see a child go unwanted or abused.

I'm sorry for getting so angry, but typically people who hold the belief that women shouldn't have the choice are the same people who will go and vote in favor of legislation that corresponds with that. Your beliefs don't bother me at all--it's acting on them that will.

I wouldn't intentionally put myself into a situation that would require me to have an abortion. I'd like to be able to not ever need one, and I try my damned hardest to prevent it ever being brought up. At the same time, if I get into that kind of position, I would like that option to be there. I might not even take it, but it gives me peace of mind. I'd call myself pro-life if it didn't really mean anti-choice (which, typically, it does).

No one is honestly pro-abortion. It just doesn't happen that way. There's no reason to restrict a safe procedure, no matter the reason (cosmetic surgery anyone?).

So again, I apologize. I made an assumption and I was wrong. Just promise you won't ever vote in favor of a law that would take my choices away ;)

in repsonse to the comment about children adopted from other countries. I'm not doing because I want a foreign looking child. I truely do want to save children from an environment where they starve. That has always the reason why. And do you want to know why there are half a million orphaned children here in the united states? Because people who get pregnant accidentally who can't take care of a child don't get an abortion when they find out they're pregnant really early on. I can understand doing the "giving up your child at birth" thing on a small scale, but if it's at half a million children, that's way too many kids being given up.

I didn't really feel like reading through every single post. So I'm just going to give my personal view on it.

First off. Even when abortion was illegal, it was still allowed LEGALLY if you were a victim of rape, if the child would be mentally handicapped, or if the mothers life was in danger due to it.

When Roe Vs. Wade (sp?) finally went through, it was made legal, no matter your reasoning. Did anyone know that Roe, after having her abortion and getting it legalized, now is against it and wants it outlawed again? That just shows how terrifying that experience can be.

I have a younger sister. She got pregnant and choose to have an abortion. She got pregnant again and choose to keep it because she said she just couldn't do that again.

Now personally, I think if you get pregnant, and used no form of protection, it's your own damned fault and I don't think you should get one. If you thought you were adult enough to have unprotected sex, or sex at all, then you're adult enough to take responsibility for those actions. If you used protection, then I think you should still have the child, but put it up for adoption.

This is merely what I think as a person. Now, personally. I don't give a damn what you decide to do with your body. I believe in science, so I don't think that it causes that fetus any physical pain. I would rather the child not come into the world than to have to live with parents who don't care for it and blame it for their misery.

I personally would never have an abortion. I wouldn't be able to do that to myself, I also believe that I'm ready to become a mother though. I'm also with someone who wants to have children though.

On that note, I think that the man should have some say in the matter. If they have to pay child support if if they don't want the kid, then they should be able to stop an abortion. I do not feel that the man should be allowed to say she has to have the abortion, but I think that if he decides he doesn't want her to, then shouldn't be able to.

I believe women should have a choice when it comes to having a baby. It affects their life, especially if they're still in school, to the point that even if they are giving the baby up, they will be having serious problems like missing school and losing the respect of many people around them.

I didn't say they shouldn't give it up for adoption if they don't use condoms. I said, if they don't use them, they shouldn't be able to have an abortion.

Her body? Honestly, if she wants to worry about her body, it should have been while she was having unprotected sex. If it's a health issue, fine, that's understandable. But other than getting bigger during the pregnancy, what is there for her to worry about with her body?

When my sister got pregnant her boyfriend wanted to keep it, he was ready to be a father. She decided to have an abortion though, because she didn't want to take care of a kid. It ruined his life. He has had depression problems ever since. He doesn't care that it was unborn, it was his child to him.

And it IS someones fault. If they decided to have unprotected sex and she got knocked up and they decide to get rid of it, then it's THEIR fault. If a girl decides to get one because she doesn't want to take care of the kid, maybe he offers to. She still doesn't want to because...what? Because of how people will treat her? Because she'll get bigger? I don't see how any girl has a legit excuse to have an abortion if the father is willing to take the child once it's born.

I don't worry about it too much though, I don't have to deal with that sort of thing. If someone else decides to have abortion, not my problem. It sucks for some people, but again, I don't think abortion should be made illegal, I think it's a necessary thing. It'll jsut go back to people having it illegally done anyways.

But that leads up to the fact that there are too many damn people on the planet...We either need to do something that makes it so if people don't want to have kids, they MUST have protected sex...we need to slow down the level of child birth because we are going to get to a point where the earth can't support us anymore.........

We're all going to be dead before we reach that limit, but yeah. Personally, I think we should legalize euthanasia. I know, off topic, but, that would definitely help matters.

Again, I will restate what I said earlier. If you think you're mature enough to have sex, then you should be mature enough to take the responsibility of what may come of that. It shouldn't matter if you don't want to be "the incubator for a baby for nine months". Should have thought of that before hand.

Trust me, from all the people I've spoken to, having an abortion is FAR more emotionally terrifying than actually having the child.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised. Seeing as I'm going to be living across the country from my boyfriend for about a year. I'm not too worried about it. Also, we both use protection and have been for a year and a half. We've also discussed what we would do if I WERE to get pregnant. Both of us want a family as well. So, no, this is not the kind of situation I would expect to find myself in. One, it's not really physically possible with the distance that we will have. The few times that we are able to have sex, it's going to be protected on both sides. On the chance it does happen, we already know what we will be doing, so it wouldn't matter anyway.

Honestly, I don't know why girls are rushing into having sex so soon anyways. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I don't think getting rid of it is taking responsibility. Sex is meant to have children. If you don't want kids, don't have sex. There are plenty of other ways to express your feelings towards someone and to get rid of that "urge". Also, I wouldn't say "dumping" it on someone else. If you were to put it up for adoption, there are more than enough people willing to adopt. I wouldn't see that as dumping at all. There are plenty of people who physically cannot have children.

I'm sure there are plenty of women who are happy they had one. I'm just bringing up a point that pregnancy might be too much for some women/girls to handle emotionally, but abortion isn't necessarily going to be any better.

I am an exception to the rule. I want children. I would love to have them now and start a family. Me and my ex honestly thought about trying. Me and my current boyfriend just feel like it'd be better to wait. Though if it happened I'd more more than happy. It's not something that's likely to happen, but I'm more than ready and willing if it does.

The rushing into sex thing got brought up because I was using my sister as an example.

Let's see.. there are half a MILLION unwanted and unadopted children in the US alone right now. So obviously this isn't true.

When are people going to start paying attention. There are NOT enough parents for all the abandoned children in the US. There are NOT enough people "willing to adopt".

And what happens to those kids that get left in the system til they're old enough to leave? 9% of them commit suicide by age 18. About half of the remaining are never able to create a stable family environment for themselves... and only a few try to fix the system by adopting children of their own.

There are simply NOT enough people who are willing OR ABLE to adopt unwanted children. It costs money, ti takes time, and it's emotionally stressful, because these kids have problems. Wouldn't you if your mother decided she didn't want you anymore? The ones that DO get adopted are the new born white babies from healthy mothers.. It's like picking out a pet, you're not going to get the 14 year old stray with the missing eye and the notch in it's ear, are you? Hey, I would, but if a normal person is gonna pay 30,000 dollars for a cat, it better be a nice one, right?

Yeah, I'm ranting, but someone needs to start paying attention. There are just NOT enough people who want to adopt!

in most cases, my opinion is no. i believe that unless that by having the child, the mother will die, i believe that abortions are wrong. i believe that in most cases, it is very close to murder(i cant call it murder cuz it doesnt fit all the criteria). I feel there are plenty of other alternatives to abortion and unless there are absolutely NO other options available, i think the baby should be allowed to live. even if it is doomed to die an early death due to childhood illness, it should be allowed to live. im not saying anything about women who choose to have them done, i dont hate them or feel anything negative towards them, thats just how i feel. but as for the free birth control and such, if u're getting it free than it should definitely have at least guidelines. i mean, you are giving away DRUGS. u dont wanna give them to ppl who might just take them home and re-sell them on the corner, u wanna at least have some faith that they will use them correctly. but, thats my opinion. ive heard enough times that my opinion doesnt count because im a male and i dont know what it's like to be a woman and i dont have the right to say it because i'll never go through the pain of child birth. but make no mistake, when u have an abortion, u have an impact on more ppl than just u and the aborted child.

We've discussed this in this thread already. No, doing "sex acts" is not the same as "having sex." You can ask just about any couple with a healthy sexual relationship and they'll say the same thing.

No, there aren't, and this fact has been covered several times in this thread.

Except you're not stuck with an abortion for a minimum of eighteen years. With proper counseling and support, a woman can learn how to cope. You underestimate the resolve that some women have (I love you Molly!)

I know for certain that I would regret giving up a child sooner or later, I'd wonder, "Is their family good enough? Are they like me? Are they smart? Athletic? Do they resent me for abandoning them? Do they want to meet me? What if?" If I were to have an abortion, it'd be a simple matter of only, "What if?" But, for the sake of my future children (or current if I've already hit my personal limit), it won't matter nearly as much. I won't have to tell any children I do have that they have a sibling somewhere in the world.

As a side note, I have neither the time nor the money to even carry a child to term. I'm trying to finish school, and I'd have to take a whole semester off to deal with the pregnancy towards the end of my term. That is definitely something that I am not wanting and cannot afford to do.