Can I just point something out here that a lot of people seem to be confused on? If you are adopted, you can't just be "thrown back in". It doesn't work like that. You adopt, you legally become that childs parents, and can't just send them back. What you're talking about sounds more like foster care.

while i agree with you that there is a difference between being called a murder and the rest, i feel that your stance and your own personal feelings may have created a bias in regards to your feelings about my being flamed. take it as you will, but that is how I feel. because i'm sorry, but what she said was NOT just and . there were insults there as well.

Adoption is a long drawn out process. My aunt (husband's aunt) adopted 2 kids. The first they only had care of for the first year and a half, they weren't allowed to adopt til the kid was almost 2. The second one they're still waiting to adopt, and she just turned a year old. They WANT these children, but the system says they have to wait for whatever legal reasons.

I should also point out that both of these kids are perfectly matched to my aunt and her husband, fair skin, light brown hair, brown eyes. They passed up hundreds of kids over years of searching to find the ones they wanted.

I'm Japanese.. what kind of chances do a half Japanese kid have when people are that picky? I remember in foster care, we got thrown out a few times. that DOES happen a lot, so it's probably what they meant by that.

So they were foster parents to the children before actually adopting them Molly, or at least the first one?

It's really sad when foster children get moved from home to home. Those people are supposed to be helping children, but in reality most of them are just trying to help themselves by finding the children they want.

well, i understand the frustration sha, but think of it from another perspective. just because you want to help someone shouldn't mean that you have to hurt your self in the process(not in all things). yes you want to help children, but since you have to raise them indefinitely, you also need to find children that are a match to you. yes, maybe it sounds like in molly's case that they were choosing based on physical attributes, but that more than likely wasn't the reason they were chosen, it was just a fortunate extra

I really don't know the details. I know they threw a party with the first one when he was almost 2 years old to celebrate that he was legally theirs. I know that before that, they had had 3 infants in their home but none of them stayed more then a month or two. But I have never asked why.

We haven't been informed of the legal adoption of this one. But I'm sure there will be a party then, too. She's almost a year old, and looking at her, she is the spitting image of my aunt, you would never know she was adopted, and I have a feeling they're going to keep it a secret if they can.

They could have been a temporary foster family. That often happens when the childs mother or parental figure is going through rehab or something of that sort.

Also, you'd be surprised at how many people want the children to look like them. Though I think knowing you're adopted would be a great thing. They chose you. They had a choice and you were the one they picked. What greater feeling could there be?

I really have no idea why it took so long. I know they where working with a privet adoption agency and looked for years for the right kids. And passed up a lot based on race, eye and hair color, parent's background, all kinds of things.

But that's why they pay all that money, right? But it feels like crap when they don't choose you. I went through 3 foster homes with my brother and sister. Based on race and age, no one wanted us. It's understandable, but it's also very depressing. We didn't stay in the system.. but I can Imagine that children who do go through all kinds of torment, asking themselves "why not me? When's it my turn?".

i'm not saying that's not the case, i'm just giving u a what if. and what greater feeling could there be? i would say knowing that (enter worst case scenario here) won't be what you will wake up to till the day they move out. it does happen. My other brother was adopted and he is a sociopath. tried to kill my self and my sister a few times and make it look like accidents. but i'm still here baby!!

maybe what i said and the point i was trying to get across aren't the same. sorry, got a brain disorder, stuff like that happens sometimes. the point is, you need to make sure the child you are adopting is going to fit into your family, not just adopt them to take them out of foster care or wherever they are

OH! the sociopath was the worst case scenario, thats what she woke up to. thats the reason why u need to be selective

Dewey, what you don't seem to understand is that these people aren't seeing if the CHILDREN will fit in with the family, they're seeing if the childs RACE will fit in. They're choosing the children on physical features, not on mental disorders.

when i was a bit younger my mom would always tell me that theres 3 things you should never debate because theres no possible way of winning the debate and thats on religion,politics,and abortion.

But anyways

I belive abortion is wrong.I was supposted to be an aborted baby.
I dont think it's fair that mothers will go off and have sex and the just decise "well im not going to take responsibility for my actions and just get rid of this baby"

They really should take responsibility for there actions.

And before people abort there babys the doctors should show the people who are gwtting the abortions pictures of aborted babys.

It's a horrid sight really.
The pictures alone made my cousinchange her mind about abortion.

I belive it's murder.

Shure the baby cant breathe but it still dose have a heart beat and it still is living so there for it's murder in my eyes.

and lets say that someone got raped.
still not an excuse to get an abortion if you dont want the baby then put i up for adoption after it's born.

just because something bad happened to you dosent mean you have to kill an innocent human being.

thats true, some people do that. and that's not right. but to be honest with u, race SHOULD be a factor when you introduce a new child to the family, or should i say "a family should consider their environment before they consider race". let's be honest, a white family bringing home a black baby isn't universally accepted yet

I just had an ex-coworker who did it actually dewey, and everyone she works with and her family is perfectly ok with it and extremely happy for her. My aunt did it. My uncle did as well, I've got two sides of the family that brought black children into the fold. They live in the south too (very old fashioned area), where something like that is far more frowned upon than it is here. They haven't had any issues.

Race should NEVER be a factor when it comes to loving someone and caring for them.

We, as a country, elected a black president. It's not that racial issues are disappearing per say, but everyone's finding themselves being hated on by someone or another and we, I believe, are learning to look past things like that because of it. It would be nice if the children in need could receive the same courtesy.

And I think I should have been aborted, my mother, brother and sister's lives would have been a lot better if my mother hadn't had a child so young and been unable to care for it. Yes, you're happy to be alive, but at what costs?

Can I suggest you go back and read the last 100 or so pages of the thread?

There are a lot more reasons to have an abortion then just "well im not going to take responsibility for my actions and just get rid of this baby".

In fact, having an abortion IS taking responsibility for your actions. It's not something a woman considers lightly.. she doesn't just say "well I'm knocked up, better get rid of it". No, she has to consider all her options, and then figure out how to pay for it, and then deal with her family when they find out what she's done, and THEN deal with people like you who don't care who she is or why she did it, who just see it as murder, when the law of the US, the bible, the Qur'an and just about every other religion says it's not murder.

Germs are alive.. we go out of our way to kill them. Bugs are alive, and we swat them without a second thought. Plants are alive and we step on them while we're running to class. The whole "it's alive" argument is void. It might be alive, but only so much as a bug or a germ is. At least until the 20th week, at which point an abortion is illegal unless it endangers the mother.

And I've seen the pictures. Maybe I just have a stronger stomach then you, but they didn't phase me. Now the 2nd and 3rd term partial birth abortions that are only preformed with a court order that you're likely referring to are very graphic.. but as I said, court order. This only happens if the mother is in danger. normal abortions can not happen after 18 weeks in the US, and in most states, it's only 16 weeks. The pictures are there to scare you.. they obviously worked on your cousin.

And we've gone over the adoption angle, you might want to read back a few pages.

I'll sup it up for you. What happens while you're pregnant? Can you work when you are 7 months pregnant and waddling around like a penguin? If you can't work, can you pay your rent? If you can't work, can you buy food? If you're still in school, are you going to have to drop out to have the baby? If you keep it, are you ever going to get an education? And what about insurance? I think someone said that an uninsured woman is looking to pay $30,000+ in hospital bills for a pregnancy and birth. Can you afford that? Can you get insurance? What about family support? Is the father going to be there when you need him? If you're going to put the baby up for adoption, will your family be willing to support you? And there are a million other questions a pregnant woman has to ask herself when deciding if she is willing to give her entire life for a child she knows she can't take care of, or abort, improve her own situation, and wait to have children when she knows they will have a good life and a family that loves them.

You do have a point, though, people should NEVER look at a baby's skin color and decide if they can love it.

But they do, and this is even more reason for minorities to chose abortion over adoption.

The chances of a half black, half Asian, half Mexican child being adopted into a loving home are slim because of the racial issues. In a perfect world, that wouldn't matter, but it does.

im very happy ur exco-worked was able to do that. but i know for a fact it's not like that in all places. my sister used to bartend at this local bar up the street(beer and shot place, characteristic of the backwoods areas). she made GREST tips till the customers foundout she was dating a black man(my family is white as the driven snow) from that day on, her tips were shit. now how do u think they would've reacted if they foundout her child was mixed race? and i'm sorry to say this to u hunny, but the KKK is still alive. and it's still active
*note, i am not in the KKK, and i do not endorse their activities in any way. just felt mentioning them would reinforce my point* so yea, i still believe the race should fit the environment(if it's tollerant, have as many races as you want. if it's not, be very careful with what u decide to do)

lol....half, half and half. Molly, this child you speak of defies the laws of math! I'm sure you're getting tired of constantly repeating yourself too, to every new person who decides to jump in here.

Also, money isn't too much of an issue if you are religious. You can go to the church and ask for help in paying for it. That's how my ex was born. His mother went to the church, saying she was thinking of having an abortion because she could in no way afford it. They paid for all of it. Just thought I'd add that in there.

Also, rabid, I suggest you read the first post where it says "abortion is not murder". It might be personally to you, but you really shouldn't be bringing that up as it was kind of pointed out that this debate is not about that.

Also, dewey, I'm not ignorant. I've lived in many different places in my life, I know how people can react. I know the KKK is still around, they are a legal organization that holds PROTESTS. Though they are against far more than just black people. This is just more of a reason for people to stop looking at skin color and worrying about it so much. If we allow society to deem what color baby is ok for you to bring home then people like that win. That is everyones own personal belief and their own business, but when you knowingly decide not to choose a child over their skin color then you are NO better than those people. You might say that "oh, well, I don't want them to have to deal with those prejudices". No. YOU don't want to have to deal with it. I think a child would be far happier having a family that loves it and having to deal with that pressure than having no family at all.

Haha, I meant half this, or half that, or half the other thing, not something that's 150% mongral. Yeah, I guess I was just trying to save on time. And yeah, I wish people would just read back a few pages and stop coming in with their rightous YOU ARE WRONG without any facts backing them *shrugs*

I've never heard of a church paying for a pregnancy.. That one's new to me. I know some state run insurance covers it. It does in Tennessee. But not all states.

honey, they do more than just protest lol(or maybe i'm wrong, both are possible). And yes, we cannot allow society to dictate our lives for us. and not having to deal with prejudices is 1 thing when it's just words. but when u bring a child into harms way, u're just an irresponsible tool. do u think that child would want to go with u if it knew where u wanted to bring it? no, he would rather wait for the next family to come along.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but you're giving a good reason to have an abortion.

Are you changing your views to pro-choice?

You understand that children are not always adoptable because of their race/skin color. Mothers recognize this too, and might decide that if they have the child, it has only a slim chance of being adopted. A woman might decide an abortion is better then leaving her child in state care for the rest of it's life.

Unless you can show me something that shows an act of violence done by the KKK itself (not by some random member), then I'm going to continue to believe what I read, and what I myself and my ex have had as our own experiences. My ex lived in Louisiana for over a year, my family lives in Georgia (the ones that adopted the black child). Two states that still very much believe the civil war is still going on. Neither ever saw or have had an sort of issue.

Also, that was...22 years ago, so the church may no longer do it. >.> I live in Wisconsin now (though moving to Texas in a month) and it's probably one of the best states to have a child in, the government pays you a lot of money. I believe you get about $2,000 a year (might be more now) for every child you have.

i understand, but my feelings stay the same. i realize that race/skin color may work against the child's favor, but i do feel that any life is better than the one that never takes place.

Ahh well yeah, 22 years ago things might have been different. Churches where a lot different back then. When I was young, churches would give my mother a car or pay a few months rent in an apartment or pay for child care, it was sporadic, but it happened. Now they limit it to food banks and you have to register to get on a list for any kind of bill assistance. I guess they got sick of being taken advantage of.

I'm not sure what Tennessee pays a person for having a kid, if they do at all. My husband has stocks, we've been paying taxes for years, haven't gotten a government penny since I was 20 and still getting income tax returns. Luckily part of my pregnancy was covered by the state, and the rest was covered by my husbands insurance, so I didn't have any problems, but a lot of people do.