Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 

this offended me when you decided what my opinion on what defines marrage even tho i had not said my defanition and this is not it.

Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 

The verse goes:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (KJV)


The abusers of themselves with mankind is the controversial one. The original word was "arsenokoitai" whose meaning is lost, it may have been created by Paul himself when he wrote that. However, if the "Arsen" part refers to the acient greek word "Arsen", the there's no way it could be a condemnation of male and female homosexuals, for "Arsen" means man. Some people translate as sodomites, which is a word that comes from the name Sodom, a city that was destroyed by God, because a crowd (supposely of males), wanted to rape the angels that had come down to Earth as men.

The effeminate part is also controversial. The original word, "malakoi", is used in the Bible to describe something soft. However, in the early Christian church, the words were interpreted by some as referring to persons who are pliable, easily influenced, without courage or stability. Non-Biblical writings of the era used the world to refer to lazy men, men who cannot handle hard work, and cowards.

So, we may all be reading one big mistranslation.

Source

Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 

ah then i apologyse for the mis understanding.

the thing is. im really confused as to why the church reacts the way they do when it comes to gays.

after all i thought religion was ment to be a thing that brought faith and unity to people and brought about hope whilst under the watchful eye of the creator. things like, love thy nabour and brother and your brother and nabour is every one.

after all, the bible says "tho shall not worship and other god nor idol than i" (not going to mention my view with this and the cross as its going off topic) but in todays world christians get along with others from different faiths. thus overlooking this comandment.

we no longer follow alot of the rules set in the bible because they just cann't work in todays world like the deathpenalty and people having the same power as god/jesus (i.e. technology and scientists).

the church has evolved and exepted alot of things and its just really confusing why gay marrige cann't be accepted as well.

Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 

Re: Debate: Gay Marriage
 

A) CHRISTIAN marriage is a holy union. Not state marriage. This is non-debatable.
B) Gays are NOT fighting to be married through the church, they are fighting to be married through the state in order to inherit those 3000 some odd legal rights the rest of married folk get. Getting married through the court =\= getting married through the church. Ask the gay rights activists, do what you want in the church. We don't care. We are asking for the legal right for them to marry. Being as church's are not government institutions, you can chose to ignore a law passed to allow gay marriage.
C) You cannot prove that being gay is something someone's "chosen". That's just what you believe, but ask anyone that's ACTUALLY gay/bi and you will get a different response. I find it very unlikely that people would choose a lifestyle that normally puts them into a situation where they are often denied jobs, shunned from their families and society, and often the victims of prejudice violent acts. I remember being 4 and wanting a wife.


So look at this. Marriage is a holy union within the christian religion. but non-christians get married by the courts all the time, meaning that there is marriage outside the church. No one gives a toot about what you want in the church. ban it and burn it with fire, we don't care. According to the first ammendment, "congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion." this is not saying that we can/cannot make religious law. It's saying that state and federal law should not be based on religious law. Gay marriage being wrong and an unholy union is a christian belief, period. Good for christianity. But this is specifically saying that we cannot ban gay marriage because christians think it's wrong. So take relgion out of it. Disregarding religion, why is it illegal? It is the modern day witch hunt and scapegoat for descrimination. We used to not allow blacks to marry, different religions marry, or interracial marriages. Every century we just need someone to oppress. There is nothing wrong with federally legal gay marriage. It has NOTHING to do with the church. Look up marriage as defined by the united states of america and realize there is no word "holy" in or around it. Gays are NOT looking to get married through the church, i've said this countless times in this thread and you don't really seem to be grasping the concept. Gays want to be recognized BY THE STATE for being married. Church and state are two entirely different and unrelated entities.

Exactly. use the term civil union and you will start having "civil union" sections of places that are crappy and crime ridden. It's only asking for bad crap to come along.

Many think that homosexual marriage is "defiling the sanctity of marriage." yet we allow people like Brittany Spears to marry over 2 people that want to dedicate themselves to each other for the rest of their lives....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The problem I have with using Old Testament to condemn homosexuals is that most people who do it neglect and overlook everything else in their the quest to do so.


The people of Sodom were punished for attempting to molest the visiting angels but it was totally ok for Lot to offer his to virgin daughters to a crowd of psychotic rapists. I just find that wrong.

I'm sure that this passage has probably already been quoted somewhere in this debate but I'm just tossing my two cents in the bucket.

Here are a few more old testament favorites:

So adultery's ok if God says it is.


So both Miriam and Aaron commit the same crime but Miriam is stricken with leprosy and left outside the camp for seven days and nothing happens to Aaron...
Ok then.

Guess pants are out ladies.

the union of two persons in a way that they never seporate has been around way before any religion. the name of marrage and the whole sremonial side of it is usually what people think of when they come into this subject but its not how it started. at first it was just two persons grouping together. it must have been, you have to agree with that as there is no way that some one in a church or other holy place could have randomly thought of the idear of two person bonding and wishing to be with one a nother for the rest of there lives.

i dont have any sources but i do know how to give an example. look out your window to any group of birds making a nest, its always a male and female and there always together, they aint married (in the sence that human do) but they are still a couple that will live together for the rest of there lives.

marrage only exists to us as it is because we need legal documentation saying that the two persons are married. religion need not play any part in it unless the two persons wish it to be.

We probably will never know really. Anyway it doesn't to much matter, because the Bible has the same thing again and again, such as being a lesbian is wrong. It is elsewhere. Thats the point I was trying to put across.[/size]
Why wasn't Aaron punished? Because he begged for forgiveness upon her and him. Miriam did not. Its really that simple... If you beg for forgiveness you have to deal with its punishments on earth. You are forgiven in the spiritual realm, but not earth. Sometimes it happens in both. What we think of as an lucky break.

God's judgment is true, and is right. Whether we care of not. Because he doesn't see things through our eyes, just a few years ahead. God can see through the entire span of time. Something happens because of everything good or bad. If its bad we are supposed to deal with it, because once we get to heaven it is supposed to be so great we don't care what happened on earth.

Well theres verses such as this.

Simply states if you judge, be ready. You to shall be judged. Its that simple.

Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. That does not mean do not judge and you'll be alright and perfect. No, not at all. IT just means if you judge, prepare to be judged.


Most of those verses have wordings as the same. Judge you shall be judged, do not judge on something that you are committing as was, etc.

Kinda like bashing gay marriage when your gay yourself, a example right there.

If you find any verses I can easily explain them to you. If you cannot see there point.


Yes the church seems to forget a lot of things, well not forget. Simply not focus on it. Its impossible to focus on everything at once, though that does not make it right to do so! Its bad, sadly we are human and we are not perfect. We need to better though, to address everything. Hopefully someday we will get better, and work on striving to do better.

Aaron didn't beg forgiveness until after she was stricken and clearly he was not stricken as well. If you're going to use God's ineffable ability to see the future, please explain why the slaves were ever held captive in Egypt in the first place?

I really get tired of hearing it was God's will.
It was Hitler's will that the Jews be exterminated.
Just because God is a Deity doesn't mean that you should blindly believe that mass genocide, pestilence, slavery, and being stricken with leprosy are great when they're done in his name.

well if you live in the United States, you need to leave, because voting no in support of descrimination is against the very reason this country was founded. So get out plox

As much as I really hate to say it and I know you're just mad... :3
This country was founded on the principles of freedom of speech which means anyone's speech.
If they really cared about anti discrimination then the founding fathers wouldn't have been slave owners.

However, that doesn't make them right in that regard and I'm totally with you.
Gays should have the right to the same health benefits and legal rights as straights in a country that truly stands behind its separation of church and state.
Or, in my opinion, everywhere else as well.

disregarding the constitution of america and blatantly oppression millions of people because they don't think their lifestyle is right isn't "speech" it's prejudice and against the law. Saying you don't like gays, i don't care. Voting against their freedoms, i do care about. I don't like prejudice people nor people that completely defile what our wonderful country was founded on

Slow down. The constitution of the United States of America states:

That's anyone's freedom. Even if you disagree with them. If it were illegal to vote for homosexual rights in the country at this point in time clearly we would not be holding elections on the matter. As I said that doesn't mean that they're right. We had the same votes on the rights of slaves and women in the past. All I'm saying is that they have the legal right to vote however they want in an election in this country. They can't be kicked out or forced to leave because someone wants to take that right away from them.

There is currently an amendment to protect people based upon their race. But there is currently no amendment to protect people based upon their sexual preference.


-In order to avoid double posting.-

So you would vote against woman's liberation too, should you have the option to do so?

way to spit on the constitution, then.

FIRST AMMENDMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION

I've said it a hundred times, and i will say it 100 more times. This country was founded on the principles of freedom of religious persecution. What you are doing is creating religious persecution, forcing religious law into federal law, and disregarding the separation of church and state.

Give me a good reason why you should be allowed to break the law. My reason is just because i'm following the law and i'm not hitler

Homosexuality is not a religion.
And he is not breaking any laws.