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serafim_azriel 05-30-2008 09:36 AM
War is Peace
 
I want to start this off by saying that this is not a discussion about the book by George Orwell. (Even though I <3 that book.) I am talking about the trend in America towards unconstitutional actions.

Quote:
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Alright, I would like to start off by going on a little rant. The Patriot Act. I mean WHAT THE FUCK? Seriously. I understand it was created in lieu of a terrorist attack and all that rubbish, but seriously. It came out when I was 12 and I KNEW it was wrong? How could you not! It allows not only people to be searched without a warrant. (It says there must be [reasonable?] suspicions.) and that people can be detained without a trail indefinitely, among other things.

DID YOU KNOW? Most of the Senators didn't even read the thing? The people we elect to take care of our interests don't even bother to read what they're passing!

DID YOU KNOW? Now, beyond the obvious that people are often searched and/or arrested because they are muslim in origin, that others are affected as well? If you wear certain clothes in certain places you are liable to be searched for no reason? (Wearing Hatchet gear in Lynnwood (this is not about how juggalos suck), wearing red or blue in Midvale, etc.)

Someone can just not like how you look and think you're a bad person and search you!

Now. I understand the whole mentality that if you're not doing anything wrong than you don't have anything to worry about, but when people say that, it seriously makes me die inside.

Does no one remember the Holocaust? Or indeed, any similar tragic event where people's rights were slowly taken away and no one thought about it because it 'didn't apply to them'?

Why do I reference the Holocaust? Because of the following poem that I believe illustrates my point.

Quote:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
And this quote by Albert Einstein.
Quote:
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
I mean. I understand that some people may believe that the bad people have every right to have they rights violated, but, what about the innocents who are believed bad that get theirs violated in the process? Is that alright as the price of safety?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Franklin
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
We are human beings here! There is no adult that has not done something wrong in their life!

(And for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about with my reference to 1984, it is a book about an authoritarian society in which you are constantly watched, and if you disagree with the government you are arrested and brainwashed or killed. The term "Big Brother is watching" comes from this book.)

((On another side note, did you know that the FBI's first big 'assignment' was to be sex police?))

Spoonfed
What do you think about the Patriot Act and/ Or the War on Terror?
If you are American, how does this make you feel?
If you are not American, is there something similar in your country?
Also, if you are not American, what would you do if your government try to pass such a law?
Do you feel violated?
Should I just shut up and take it? :sarcasm:

Sequined Messengers 06-01-2008 06:22 PM
Quote:
What do you think about the Patriot Act and/ Or the War on Terror?
It's sick. Genuinely, completely, utterly sick. It's completely outside their rights to detain anyone who they simply "suspect" of having done something wrong.

And the WAR on TERROR? Did they even think when they named that? The irony makes me want to puke.
Basically, they won't stand for terrorists in America, understandable enough, but the American army are becoming terrorists themselves. I mean, have you SEEN what goes on there? Innocent people being killed just because they happen to be from the same country as some terrorists.

Quote:
If you are not American, is there something similar in your country?
Nothing like that, thank god, but we had terrorists a while back. Not really in my lifetime, but throughout the 20th century the IRA were a major threat here in Ireland, and even more-so in Britain.

Quote:
Also, if you are not American, what would you do if your government try to pass such a law?
I would leave the country immediately.
Not because I'm guilty of anything, but because I wouldn't feel safe knowing they could imprison me because they merely THOUGHT I was guilty of something.

Quote:
Do you feel violated?
I really would, I'd be terrified.

Quote:
Should I just shut up and take it?
NEVER.
Nobody should ever shut up and take something if they feel it's wrong.
Because if everyone does that, then they may as well be living under a dictator.
If something is wrong, the only way to stop it is for people to speak up, to do something about it.
People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.

And sorta vaguely related to what you were saying, 1984 is an amazing book. I think Orwell was a bit psychic.

Fuzzeh-chan 06-01-2008 07:27 PM
I actually have a quote by Eli Wiesel:
Quote:
Take sides.
Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim.
Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.
[I'll edit this post later with what I think. Tired right now.]


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