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01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philomel

Um...considering how many crimes of passion have been committed using guns, I'd have to disagree with you here.

Why is a kid carrying a gun anyway? Do their parents fail that much? Or insecurity gives them some right to carry one around despite it being illegal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philomel

They're "taught" in the same way I was "taught" pre-cal. Just because the information's there, doesn't mean the person being taught understands it. Combine that with a general unwillingness to let children see violence and death on TV or in movies, and I don't think it's at all shocking that they still don't realize the full consequences of their actions. And by consequences I mean 'someone dying', not 'you going into timeout'. Raising children to only not do things out of fear of punishment is dangerous, because the punishment won't always be there.

Again, I'm not talking about 4-year-old children. 8-year-olds are intelligent enough by then to understand there is more than time-outs. They would be living in a bubble if they didn't know that by then, and if they did, they wouldn't be carrying a gun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philomel

Obviously that's not the case. Innocent people have been executed (the most recent widely-publicized execution that comes to mind was that of a man in 2004 of setting fire to his house and killing his children, when they now know the fire wasn't arson at all, something that should have been known to the investigators back then), and there's no reason to think this will stop anytime soon.

Could you tell me then what got them to think he set his house on fire and kill his children on purpose, then, after having him dead, got them to think otherwise?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philomel

See, that's where your argument breaks off in logic. Why forced labour? It doesn't do any good except to make them miserable. If you cannot be satisfied with them not being a threat to society anymore, it isn't justice or protecting the innocent you're concerned with.

No, that's where your understanding fails. I wouldn't put anyone on forced labour because "Me wants revenge arrrg!" I want them to pay back to society. They made a whole family miserable. Give these criminals a job. Having a job is suposed to be the best thing in life, giving you a purpose to live, to serve people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philomel

Because it's a life, a life they're fully aware of. What they do doesn't negate that fact. Society honours that in every other aspect, why not in this one? Oh, that's right. Because the people in charge are sadists.

Well, if me not recognizing a "special trait" that you didn't even make an effort to obtain, but was given to you and wrongly used, makes me a sadist, then I am. I can put it in my signature if you want, but those personal attacks aren't going to affect me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philomel

And again, what you're asking for isn't justice or protecting society, it's revenge. Revenge should not be carried out by an executioner.

And again, your understanding fails. You're basing yourself off solely from feelings, I base myself on accounting. So if I get a really low score in a quiz, and my mom forces me to study so I do better next time, my mom is taking revenge on me?

With that last sentence, you mean only innocent people should make the dirty jobs? That would totally wipe judges off from the face of Earth. That, unless you fail at explaining yourself, in which case, I want a more in-depth explanation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philomel

But you can agree that they do not always end someone's life. Desertion very rarely does, even indirectly. So, your argument for why we should keep the death penalty falls flat, since it would take more work to get the death penalty taken off the table for those two crimes than it would to get it abolished altogether. Kinda throws off the whole 'get what you give' thing, doesn't it?

I don't understand you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philomel

Then you don't understand the anti-police culture. Completely innocent people can get themselves in trouble because they do not trust cops. It's usually in poorer communities that you see this, since they tend to have the least favorable interactions with the police. And I was referring to the people who are wrongly convicted and executed. You know, the "innocent" people.

Tell me, it's the system failing, or the people that run it?

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Originally Posted by Philomel

Because your distaste for how someone lives their life doesn't justify killing them. I can't go shoot the hobo on the corner because I don't think he's doing what he should be with his life. I can't go around killing druggies because they're "wasting" their lives. It doesn't work that way, ever. It doesn't even work that way in executions, as this is honestly the first time I've ever heard this argument used to justify it.

You know how much I dislike when people twist my words until it becomes something completely different? You consider being a murderer is a personal lifestyle? And you think I'm a sadist.

I don't care how people live their own lives. You can do drugs until your self-demise, hell, it's your decision. My anger gets to when people ruin it to others. Ruin it as in forcing the victim to an undesirable state or situation when they didn't do anything to deserve it. I can't believe you suggested I would kill homeless people. It's not like they're stealing guns and going on killing-sprees.