It's easy to get into a debate about why a game should or should be considered great, especially when it comes to the roleplaying genre. As some of the most popular games, a lot of plots and characters have been done over and over again and have thus become cliches. However, this has also bred recognizable heroes and enormous fan bases.

My quest is to ask my fellow Menewshans what games make up their Top 5 Rpg's and why.

I am interested in answers that go beyond "because it's cool." I want to know why you connected with a specific game/character and what made it so memorable.

If it is a newer game, what drew you to it? Did you notice any cliches? If so, what did you think of them?

If it's an older game, how has it stood the test of time? Do you think it would still be able to captivate the latest generation of gamers or would it be lost in the race for better graphics?

I am also curious to know your thoughts on where the genre is headed.

If you would like to copy and paste my questions, please be sure to use quote tags.

My Top 5

1. SaGa Frontier

• Okay, let me start out by saying that if you've ever even heard of this...You're one sexy beast and I would like to take you out to dinner. This was the first rpg that I ever played on my own. I would rent it every week until I had saved up the money to buy it myself. I loved it because the soundtrack was wonderful (I wound up importing it from Singapore years later), I adored the characters, and liked being able to play as different ones.
• As years have gone by, it is still the game that I go back to again and again, so much so that my friends and family would call me to have me act as their human strategy guide (a friend of mine actually gave me the guide for it as a gift a few years back). It has managed to retain my interest because of the seven characters that you can play as...even though I always choose one of my two favorites. My number one go to guy would definitely be Blue. He is a magician who is on a quest to learn the various kinds of magic in the regions (different worlds/countries/areas) and who must then fight his brother, Rouge (teehee), for the title of the ultimate magician...among other things. I remember liking him as a kid because of his hair, now I love him because he is simply badass and will steamroll over almost any enemy if you know what spells to equip him with, he makes the Earth Dragon side-quest a hell of a lot easier. Between the two female characters, I have to side with Asellus. Her story is wonderful - vampire-like monsters known as Mystics (same basic powers but much cooler since they don't fry like bacon in the sun or sparkle like fairies), getting chased by goons, developing specific powers based on your actions/fighting style, and the possibility of getting three different endings. I would also argue that she is one of swordsmen in the entire game, second only to the optional party member Gen because of his base speed.
• This game is from 1997 and if it were released today, I'm sure it would go largely unnoticed just as it did back then thanks to the release of Final Fantasy VII. From my research, American audiences did not take to it because it was not what they were used to - SaGa has no traditional leveling system and the player is free to travel to almost any location right from the very beginning of the game. Such open gameplay can leave people with no sense of direction but that's part of what I loved the most. If I didn't feel like continuing with the storyline, I could catch a ship over to Shrike, raid Sei's Tomb for treasure/work on developing more spells/skills.
• As for graphics. It was 1997 and the SaGa team did not use the basic 3D graphics that were growing in popularity. They stuck with 2D sprites against backgrounds resembling watercolor paintings. I think it worked out very well. A lot of the game is based in fantasy so there was no need for it to try and look realistic.

2. Chrono Trigger

• Does this even need an introduction? If you're reading this and have never heard of Chrono Trigger...You should be ashamed. Hailed by millions as one of the greatest games ever, I could not resist falling in love with time travel, sexy magicians (I seem to have a thing for them, don't I?), and twelve different endings - thirteen if you include Game Over.
• The one thing that stayed with me ever since I first played it a good decade ago was how much sheer terror it instilled in me. I remember hating traveling to 2300 AD because it was just so terrible to see not to mention the fact that no monster or villain in any other rpg has ever frightened me as much as Lavos has/does (yes, he still freaks me out).
• Something that I have noticed in recent years as I've continued to play CT over and over again is just how much it makes me think about life. What if we're all being raised like cattle to feed some enormous parasite as well? Then there's the question of who exactly the game refers to when characters comment on seeing a certain entity's memories as you play the game though I have already drawn my own conclusions on that. The sequel, Chrono Cross, addressed some questions left open by its predecessor but ultimately just winds up creating more. I obviously spend far too much time thinking about the CT universe :lol:
• Chrono Trigger has been around for ages and I suspect that it will continue to be. It was first released on the SNES and since then, has seen ports to the PSX/1, DS, and I believe it can also be found on PSN. It is a classic rpg that will never die and I am totally okay with that. I have beaten it no less than seventeen times. I think that says enough.

3. Legend of Dragoon

• An excellent PSX game that I feel never truly got the recognition that it deserved. Great gameplay, a great story full of romance, ancient warriors, and a villain that could be considered Sephiroth's little brother, interesting characters, and a wonderful soundtrack - I was hooked instantly (especially on Albert and Lloyd) and regret selling it.
• The battle system was pretty much your typical rpg set up with one twist - button mashing for increased damage. Real-time anything tends to turn me off but I didn't mind this. Sure, I occasionally woke up my parents screaming at the game because I hadn't timed things well but luckily, that wasn't very often.
• This game was done in 3D and I feel that if it were re-released with today's updated graphics that it would melt my panties right off. It would be beautiful to the point of making my eyes bleed.

4. Wild Arms

• Another not so well known beloved game of mine. It was another one of those that I would rent every single week. Unfortunately, I never got around to buying it but I will someday.
• Three main characters, my favorite of which is an Indiana Jones type of guy named Jack with a talking mouse as a companion. They're quite the interesting team. Anyway, along with your traditional rpg elements, this game also included a variety of puzzles and tools specific to each character that would allow them to do different things. For example, say Jack needs to stand on some tile while also pressing a switch way over yonder that happens to be surrounded by traps, he can send his little mouse and BAM! We're good to go!
• I also loved the story line because unearthing ancient golems and gods is always fun, right? The soundtrack isn't half bad either. Also, Zed is one of the most lovable villains ever and I love him even more than I love Jack.
• This was re-released for the ps2 a number of years ago as Wild Arms Alter Code: F with updated graphics and a few extra goodies added in (I really can't remember since I'm so used to the original). My friend had it and I stole it for a number of months. It was still as fun as I remembered. I hope to purchase both versions some day.
• The sequel isn't half bad. I want to marry Brad <3

5. Final Fantasy VI

• Last but not least, a member of the Final Fantasy franchise. You thought I was going to say VII, didn't you?! Well, too bad! VI is where it's at. Fun characters, an engaging storyline, and no characters that I truly hate. I am so in love with Shadow and Interceptor that it's not even funny.
• Of course I loved the fact that this was all old school sprites (an art form that I fear is being lost with the advancement of 3D graphics). I honestly just found it genuinely fun to play, easy to get caught up in, and difficult to forget. Also, my favorite villain of all time is in this, kekeke!
• This was originally on the SNES but my first experience with it was the PSX re-release. This is one game that if re-leased for newer consoles with updated graphics, and done correctly, it could blow your fucking mind. All over the place.

As for my thoughts on where the genre is headed...Well, I really haven't been interested in many rpg's after the PS3 was released. Pretty much everything has switched over to real-time and as an avid lover of turn-based battle, I have been left in the past with my PS2 and various emulators. I see a number of console games also making the move towards more mmo based gameplay (recent Final Fantasy games, anyone?) and that bothers me simply because if I want to play a game like that then I will simply get on my computer. I quite enjoy my random battles, thank you very much. The only real exception I make is for the Dragon Age games. So full of your typical cliches but somehow executed in a way that keeps their levels of fun crazy high. However, due to these changes, I feel as though the genre of a true roleplaying game will very quickly be lost completely as it continues to cross over and form hybrid genres with other gameplay styles such as action/adventure, FPS, and even your occasional side scroller.

But enough of that, curious as to what almost made the cut for my Top 5?

• Final Fantasy VII - PSX
• Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker - NDS
• Dragon Quest: Hand of the Heavenly Bride
• Lufia & The Fortress of Doom - SNES
• Final Fantasy IV - SNES/PSX
• Disgaea - PS2
• Radiata Stories - PS2
• Heroes of Might & Magic V/Tribes of the East/Hammers of Fate - PC
• Dragon Age I & II - PC
• Xenosaga Series - PS2 (Never had a chance to play Xenogears)

Alright, Menewsha! It's your turn!

Oh, I have to get into this one for sure!

1. Suikoden

Why is this game #1 on my list? Because it has some of the worst box art ever! I kid, I kid! I loved this game because it was fun finding the 108 stars of destiny and you never had to grind too much to get the levels you needed to continue with the story. The story was fantastic and gave a new kind of perspective on what is evil and what is good. It blew my mind that there was no clear cut bad guy, so it left the player wondering if they should kill their enemy or spare their life. There were plenty of likeable characters in this game, but I was impressed that they gave them all some level of plot (for the most part). Finally, to anyone who knows the game at all, the names Gremio and Odessa should yank at the heartstrings a little.

2. Final Fantasy VI

Oh man, this rpg holds so much history with me. I would have conversations for hours with others on every minute detail. Challenges on how low can your level be to finish the game, which materia should go to who, which relic is best, and what party is the most effective. This game was a debate in itself because there were so many likable characters. You wanted them all in your party, but it could never happen. There were so many beautiful scenes that were done incredibly well during a time where animated cutscenes didn't exist yet. The locations were all unique and a real pleasure to go through. This game had a very clear villain, but he was cool about it. He reminded me of a Japanese version of the Joker, and I was okay with that.

3. Chrono Trigger

I remembered playing this for the first time and not expecting much out of it after experiencing games like FFIV and FFVI. Eight hours later and I found myself completely hooked to the story. I remember how the game was amazing once I realized that I could get different endings and that I could get them easily thanks to the creation of new game +. From this simple option to start the game with your current stats, it made me want to level everyone until all their stats were maxed out with the best gear in the game. This is one of those rpgs that I would happily give to anyone and feel confident that they would enjoy it.

4. Final Fantasy IV

This holds a spot here because it was my first rpg. I didn't know how to take it at first where battles were done with a menu instead of mashing buttons. It made me think about what I needed to do to kill an enemy (like not using fire on a lava creature for instance). It taught me strategy and it made me appreciate a deeper story than what I was used to. As time went on, the game got better (or more complete I guess) with better translations and the real or 'hard' version being the standard now. Whenever I talk about this game, people always have to remark about the Bahamut and Ashura fights the most and that puts a smile on my face.

5. Skies of Arcadia

You'll have to forgive me, it's been many years since I've played this game again. This was one of the games that I lament on because it did so many different things well. First off, it's a story about air pirates! Secondly, your weapons elements could be changed on the fly. Finally, it was fun playing the minigame with the dreamcast memory card. How many rpgs have another minigame built in where it can help you get more items? I played it once, but never had the time to play it again. I really suggest trying it out and there was a newer version that got released on the gamecube in case the dreamcast version is too hard to find.

I wanted to add these other games to the list, but wondered if it might be a little out of place depending on one's interpretation of what is a rpg or just because they just fell short.

Castlevania SotN
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic
Parasite Eve
Final Fantasy VII
Xenogears
Shadowrun (the SNES version)
Illusion of Gaia
River City Ransom

I've always wanted to play Suikoden but never had the chance to [/jealous] Same with Skies of Arcadia. I may have to snag a Dreamcast emulator :ninja:

Hey Vix, I forgot to add Mario rpg as well. That was a fun game, except for one extremely annoying secret. It's about as annoying as dodging lightening in FFX. Ah, crap, I also forgot to add in Earthbound (Mother)!

I haven't played those two either!

I might elaborate further a little later on, but for now:

1. The Myst series
2. The Elder Scrolls series
3. The Dragon Age series
4. Suidoken V
5. Final Fantasy X

I'd be happy to explain why I chose what I did... when I'm not so sleepy. Look for an edit here soon c:

1. Chrono Cross
-It was a sequel to CT, but not directly.
-The story is an absolute masterpiece, and it just keeps asking you questions that are never answered in the end. The cool thing is the questions are things that aren't just ingame, and keep bugging you after it's done, and are reeeeeeally deep. It's a thinking person's game, and still to this day I still think about the things mentioned and get inspiration from it. Very few if any cliches occur.
-Battle system is glorious, I wish we could see something more like it elsewhere. The weapons store also is a blacksmith, offering a sort of crafting system.
-There are refs to Chrono Trigger everywhere, they seem to bubble up underneath instead of being obvious however, it's definitely not a rehash in any sense of the word.
-Oh my god, the music... best score ever. Variety everywhere, beautiful. I have the three disc OST.
-TONS of playable and likable characters with unique abilities. All the dialoge between them is automatically in their accent, it's pretty cool to read the same thing many times. There's no worry for "leveling them up" either, but many have combo attacks or hidden special attacks/items that need to be unlocked via a part of their own personal story.
-The New Game+ Mode actually adds things by giving you the ability to fight the final boss at anytime in the story, and to be able to play as everyone you need to play the game about 3 times. That's OK though, there's actually many paths to take in the story. And so many endings depending on when and how you defeat the boss.

2. Final Fantasy IX
-Criminally put in the shadow of VII or VIII.
-Some of the best characters of any FF game, definitely the most "human." (there's even a reason for why the main character looks so different) You can actually feel the drama in the game.
-Unique in it's references compared to the others, I love the musicals and theatre. At the same time, it's familiar.
-Dat steampunkish setting.
-A fresh breath from the other games that were before it in a way, it's definitely not as sad and dark... though there are some dark parts in it. Cliches still abound however, then again FF created a few of them.

3. Earthbound
-Unique as hell, in fact it's a little weird in places. The uniqueness hasn't been paralleled yet.
-TONS of music references (there's a staaaaaaaaarman...), unfortunately younger players may not get them all.
-Unfortunately a little rare, good luck if you want to play it on a real console... lately I've seen some copies go for a hundred bucks.

4. Legend of Dragoon (already mentioned, why doesn't this have a sequel or prequel? It came out to be amazing out of nowhere!)
5. Golden Sun 1+2
-GBA game, but feels straight at home for classic gamers. The visuals and audio are really good for the device.
-Cool but classic story, takes a really interesting turn at the second and the POV switches.
-The class system is an absolute ball to use. Your Psynergy (basically spells in the game), can do almost anything you can think of.
-Good challenge if you want it, and lots of varied environments (especially at#2)
-Slot machines!
-There's side quests, but they're not very large. More like side dungeons. It's perfect if you want something more than the main story, but don't want to take foreeeeeeever away from it.

Very close runners up:
Chrono Trigger (Gotta looooove that game, but was already mentioned)
SaGa Frontier.
Final Fantasy IV, VI, and Tactics.
Dark Cloud (It's like a dungeon crawl met Sim City! Some ideas it had were brilliant, but some weren't. Your milage may vary.)
Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga (It can get a little easy, but it's very enjoyable and will satisfy Super Mario RPG fans with something a little more even. Too bad none of the others really captured it.)
The entire Megaman Battle Network series (if you can call it an RPG... it's a mix of everything and the kitchen sink, but it's unique.)
Xenogears
Lufia 1 and 2

Originally Posted by Vix Viral

• Final Fantasy IV - SNES/PSX

You forgot GBA, PSP and, to a lesser extent, Wii. Apparently Square has a hard-on for this game. It's probably my wife's favorite, and I thought it was pretty decent, but nowhere near as great as everyone else seems to think it is.

Originally Posted by Saisei

You forgot GBA, PSP and, to a lesser extent, Wii. Apparently Square has a hard-on for this game. It's probably my wife's favorite, and I thought it was pretty decent, but nowhere near as great as everyone else seems to think it is.

Honestly, the remakes just get worse and worse in quality. Don't ever buy an iPod/iPhone version of any FF game, they seem to just be using emulators now... or something that makes an early PSX game slow as snot on a device that's more powerful than it. Either way, they just keep getting slower and less favorable every time than the original SNES version.

(GBA and PSX were the best remakes of the group though, IMO.)

Originally Posted by Saisei

You forgot GBA, PSP and, to a lesser extent, Wii. Apparently Square has a hard-on for this game. It's probably my wife's favorite, and I thought it was pretty decent, but nowhere near as great as everyone else seems to think it is.

I didn't know it had been released for those platforms, I simply listed the ones I had played myself.

Originally Posted by Projectwolfie

Honestly, the remakes just get worse and worse in quality. Don't ever buy an iPod/iPhone version of any FF game, they seem to just be using emulators now... or something that makes an early PSX game slow as snot on a device that's more powerful than it. Either way, they just keep getting slower and less favorable every time than the original SNES version.

(GBA and PSX were the best remakes of the group though, IMO.)

The PSX one was a travesty. Have you played the PSP remake? It's a complete remake.

----------

Also a remake of The After Years, and a new game to cover the time in between. What I've seen of FFIV looks good, though. Really flashy. :)

Originally Posted by Saisei

The PSX one was a travesty. Have you played the PSP remake? It's a complete remake.

----------

Also a remake of The After Years, and a new game to cover the time in between. What I've seen of FFIV looks good, though. Really flashy. :)

Is it a complete remake? It looked like the GBA port with somewhat different graphics to me. Honestly, after the GBA version (though it did have a problem or two, I will admit) I think they need to make another FF instead of redoing it. Again. Even before the DS version. Also, I felt the game itself was complete, I didn't really think The After Years was really needed... though I did like the graphics style of the first version.

It's gotten to "hey, instead of making another game with the familiar story elements like we always do, let's just make a different game with the same exact story and call it a remake!" (In before someone mentions Pokemon!) It just feels lazier. Then again, constant rehashes are a pet peeve of mine. One or two is necessary... not being able to play it on every single system imaginable with completely different versions. That's just how Square is working now though.

It's a function of the economy. That's why the only movies you see are ones with numbers in the title or are remakes of 10-20 year old movies. Nobody is willing to take a chance spending the money on developing something that might not succeed when they can spend less money and make as much or more.

Also: How do you define remake? It's 2d style graphics, but the whole thing is completely redone, the score is re-arranged and the translation is tweaked again. *shrug*

I see a port as a rehash of a title to another system and nothing else; all of their iPod/iPad/iPhone games are ports (of which version exactly IDK), for example. Can be associated with better graphics suiting the system, or bundled with other games. A remake is an attempt at porting, then adding something more. More than better graphics, more like including better translations, extra content, better coding/bugfixes, etc.

Both aren't bad at all. It's a great way to give older, classic, and overlooked games a way into people's hands who would be otherwise without them. There's just such a thing as good, bad, and done too often ones. XD

Okay, my top 5 . . . This is hard. xD

1 - Okay, I lied, number 1 is easy. Tales of Symphonia.
- I loved this game for the storyline mostly, there were constant twists and suprises. The storyline was in depth and I don't remember any part being off topic to the game.
- The characters were amazing. Even characters that you hardly saw had amusing personalities and such. Also, most of the voice acting made the characters even better. Especially Kratos, Cam Clarke is a God. OH, and I like how you can gain other outfits for the characters through sidequests.
- The music was good and went with the storyline to make it even better. Sad, hidden town - Sad music. Happy, tourist city - Happy music. Simple, but so many games can mess it up.
- I liked the fighting style. I'm not a fan of turn based games, and this isn't one. . . Easy.
- The art was rly pretty. <3 That's about all I can say for that.
- Plenty of sidequests and variety.

Anyway. It's my best, most favourite game ever. It wins. Even though I love most of the Tales Series, none have even come close to how great this one is.

2 - Dragon Age 2.
- Good storyline, good gameplay. I love the fact you can romance. The characters are amusing, apart from maybe Merril, can't stand her.

3 - Tales of Vesperia.
- Another Tales game. Slightly more annoying characters than Symphonia, but Repede makes up for it all. Storyline is good. Gameplay is good. Art and music are really nice. Outfits for characters again.

4 - Enchanted Arms.
- This game is here for one reason, and one only. Makoto. God he makes that game. (Not completed this yet though. xD Last boss, still)

5 - Final Fantasy IX.
- As I rule, I hate Final Fantasy games, but I loved this one. I think mainly it was because I fell in love with the random characters. Vivi <3. Other than that. I don't really know why I liked it. (Still not actually completed it either though.)

Others that NEARLY made it:
Baten Kaitos - I just loved the originality with the weird card fighting thing. (Never completed. . .)
Tales of Eternia - More Tales, YAY!
Nier - If this counts as RPG? It's very good.
Blue Dragon - Didn't much like it at first, then kept playing a grew to love it. (Not completed either. . .)
Eternal Sonata - HATED at first, grew to like it when I bought the PS3 version for Cam Clarke's voice.
Persona 3 - I like it a lot, i've just not played enough of it to include in top 5.